The conspiracy of "tracking cookie" paranoia

If possible, I'd like to open up a discussion among ATS users about your thoughts related to cookies set by websites, and especially "tracking cookies" used by third party advertising companies.

In my mind, there's a great deal of misinformation about cookies throughout the Internet, and most of is inaccurate hype being generated by anti-spyware/virus firms, or those with an interest in anti-spyware/virus firms. So... a potential corporate conspiracy of sorts.

Some recent news on the issues:
Privacy groups urge government to halt Google DoubleClick deal
Inte rnet Explorer 7: Finally Creating a Safe Browsing Experience
hakia.com, the First Search Engine That Does Not Insert Cookies
How to completely eliminate tracking cookies
Even Mossberg is spreading cookie FUD: Tracking cookies crumble privacy

So... before I get into my side of the story, I'd like to hear from some ATS members about their thoughts on "tracking cookies."

A cookie is nothing more than a text file, but you could use them for tracking in a limited sense. Take a fictitious company AdImageCompany.com. They could spread out advertisement on multiple domains and track your visits to multiple sites. Let's say the advertise on all major news websites. It's possible that they could determine that you visited FoxNews, MSNBC, and then CNN. They could then use this data to see what site had visitors that ended up responding to their advertisement. While this is not sinister and does no harm to your computer, some people find it discomforting that anyone would keep track of which news organizations they trust for information.

All-in-all I think that cookies make life on the Internet more friendly and that we have little to worry about. AdImageCompany.com can only look at their own cookies unless there's a loophole that I don't know anything about. Unless they had an ad here on ATS they would have no idea that you visited this site.

EDIT: I should note that given Google's recent acquisition of DoubleClick, they have the possibility of tracking quite a bit of behavior.

[edit on 16-5-2007 by dbates]

I don't really know much about them, but I dump them all almost daily with Ccleaner I keep all cookies from ATS this is the only site I trust 100%. call it a quark I just don't like them on my computer, after all where I go on the net is my business, maybe if an advertising company payed for my internet access I would think differently about them.

i dont know too much about them either, but i do know when i erase my cookies all of my saved passwords get erased. Im really not sure what tracking cookies are meant to accomplish... are they meant to track how many times you have visited a certain website?

just block all cookies from google

I’m not exactly the most computer literate guy on the net. What is the purported use for cookies, and how could one use them to track you?

I checked into the whole cookie deal a long time ago and determined, there are much bigger things to be concerned about. In the long run, the types of focused advertising that are enabled by cookies may very well keep things cheaper. Look at it this way: ATS=Free as a result of advertising support. Advertisers are willing to use the Internet as a medium and pay for that exposure because it apparently works. And cookies are one of the things that make web advertising viable. No viable advertising business model, no revenue support, bye bye free ATS.

Here's a link- Cookies Good for You.

It's not so much the cookies themselves that bother me as the technology that exists which allows "things" to be stored on my computer which may not be so benign. And there probably isn't much you can do about it if you're going to be connected. But don't blame the poor little cookie.

I have heard some discussion about the potential misuse of cookies by having an undisclosed long date of retention. Does site really need to set a cookie that expires in 2015?

If they're doing that, I'd be concerned they found a loophole or potential use even if they're just selling demographic information from the cookie tracking.

If they sell demographics, well, that's big bucks for them. Even if they sell -to- demographics providers 'we sold this and that to these kinds of people, or they signed onto our newsletter. We'll be tracking them for 8 years'.

Now that's highly speculative. I don't really have time to research it, but that's my take.

Here's a site about Google's use of one with a date of 2038 claiming to expose the perfidy:

www.google-watch.org...

Originally posted by chibihogoshino
just block all cookies from google

Why do you feel a need to do that?

Correct me if I'm wrong..Companies use the info they get from these cookies to make money right? So shouldn't we be getting some of this money? Where's my share?

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by chibihogoshino
just block all cookies from google

Why do you feel a need to do that?

See my post just above. There's been a 'google-watch' website for a while now.

I have a link. HTH.

Originally posted by Badge01
There's been a 'google-watch' website for a while now.

Right... and the only issue appears to be the expiration date?

I thought they just stored your passwords and stuff for sites for when you visit so that you don't have to log in again. Whenever I do a spyware scan it brings up all of the tracking cookies so I usually clear them but then I have to log into ATS again.

I didn't think they were that harmful but I guess I don't fully know what they do.

As a general rule i hate advertising cookies ( because i hate advertising).It's just me.While i understand the reason behind the advertising need ( for web sites)i don't want to see them on my computer.
I agree with the fact that are things a lot more important to worry about when using a computer.
Cookies are usefull if they are comming from my bank or any other institution i deal with.
I hunt and destroy advertising cookies just because i don't like being measured,tracked and my habits being scrutinized....i feel like a lab rat.
I get the reason why Skeptic Overlord raised this issue.Cookies can be useful for a web site admin who knows what to do with them.

Originally posted by Sauron
I don't really know much about them, but I dump them all almost daily with Ccleaner

A-ha! A product that has convinced you to regularly delete cookies. Would there be a motive to keep you convinced that you need the product?

Originally posted by Sauron
after all where I go on the net is my business, maybe if an advertising company payed for my internet access I would think differently about them.

Cookies can only be read by the site that wrote them. In the case with cookies written by banner-serving companies, they *can* be used in conjunction with a massive database to record the sites you visit (rare), but the data contains no personal information to identify *who* went to *what* sites.

Originally posted by hikix
are they meant to track how many times you have visited a certain website?

A web server (or JavaScript) can be configured to write whatever they like into a cookie. We use cookies for retaining your identity from page-to-page as you use ATS.

Originally posted by Badge01
If they sell demographics, well, that's big bucks for them. Even if they sell -to- demographics providers 'we sold this and that to these kinds of people, or they signed onto our newsletter. We'll be tracking them for 8 years'.

It's very difficult to merge demographics with cookie data. While the AdWords program does indeed enable advertisers to track the performance of their marketing (how many people clicked ad X, visited page Y, and bought product Z), it's aggregate data that doesn't contain any personal information. Lots of firms rely on this data, and lots of good people make a living helping firms sell better online using this data.

Originally posted by Bursuc
As a general rule i hate advertising cookies ( because i hate advertising).It's just me.

Well... without advertising, there would be no ATS.

Originally posted by Bursuc
Cookies are usefull if they are comming from my bank or any other institution i deal with.
I hunt and destroy advertising cookies just because i don't like being measured,tracked and my habits being scrutinized.

The vast majority (95% +) of cookies used by banner serving firms are not used to track you browsing habits, they're used to refine the frequency at which you receive banners. They keep track of which banners/ads you see to make sure you don't see too many from any one advertiser. In fact, you INCREASE your odds of seeing no ads by retaining your cookies... if you're an active user, you will like reach the daily frequency cop, and receive no more ads.

When they first started up this internet "cookie" thing, it agnered some devoted BBS users. The word 'cookie' was used to describe a logon quote or factoid that was presented to the computer user. A little cookie to start th session. It was tramsmorphed into a marketing scam that has some serious possible abuse issues. It all comes down to, who would you trust, a salesman?

[edit on 16-5-2007 by SlackerSlayer]

Originally posted by Bursuc
As a general rule i hate advertising cookies ( because i hate advertising).It's just me.

Well... without advertising, there would be no ATS.



Oiiiiiiiiiiii...Skeptic,i said i understand the reason behind advertising for a web site...you took it out of context man.Bad SO

As for the other stuff you explained about the banners,did not know that.Thanks,learned something new.

You're right when you say some antispyware programs treat them as a real "threat",even though they are not,but you paid for that program...it needs to show you it does something..ain't it ?
I think these beasts are somehow misunderstood,and because they "track" things,people don't want them.I know they don't track "me" as a person,but still...it is a concern when you don't know exactly what and how they do what they do.
All i'm saying is that they are not all good or all bad...

Originally posted by chibihogoshino
just block all cookies from google

I use a firefox extension that blocks all cookies unless you specifically allow them.

So I only let forum set cookies as you need these for features like view new posts. 99% of other sites do not need to set cookies so I dont allow them, other users should do the same if they value their privacy.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Cookies can only be read by the site that wrote them. In the case with cookies written by banner-serving companies, they *can* be used in conjunction with a massive database to record the sites you visit (rare), but the data contains no personal information to identify *who* went to *what* sites.

Thats true but you can visit a site and have cookies set by 3rd parties that you dont even know you are allowing them.

In theory, a company could track your every page view if you allow cookies.

Why use cookies if they are not needed, surely its better to be safe than sorry and blocking them does not affect my internet experience one bit.

Originally posted by Flyer
Thats true but you can visit a site and have cookies set by 3rd parties that you dont even know you are allowing them.

Yes... the firms we work with would end up writing several.

In theory, a company could track your every page view if you allow cookies.

It depends who, and how the cookie is used. For example, our Google Analytics cookie would indeed be available for every page-load you have on ATS. But what's the issue? The data is not identified as your personal browsing history.

Why use cookies if they are not needed,

There are several reasons to "need" cookies. For example, your ATS username is stored in a cookie... and third parties use them to deliver a better mix of ads.

surely its better to be safe than sorry

Safe from what? So far, no one has identified what the potential threat is.