China Buys-Up US Debt At A Rate Of $15 Billion Dollars Per Month

Originally posted by radardog
The chinese are not forced to invest in anything. Where do you get that nonsense from? It may be true that China does not know how to diversify - I'm not in their ministry of finance, so I do not know.

Ask yourself what would happen to the US Dollar if China announces it would stop buying US Debts?

Whether you like it or not, the US is the 2nd biggest trade partner of China, bankruptcy of the US would be catastrophic for the US economy and since the Chinese economy is not strong enough yet, they cannot stop investing.

What happenened with Iran's plans to set up their own oil bourse/exchange?[in euro's], it had some delay i guess..
Such a thing is most likely gonna make the dollar fall, and the deficit cant hold any longer, interest rates are going to raise since they only lent more and if China itself has a less surplus of its own or even a deficit, they will pull out..
A recession/depression is unavoidable and after that US citizens and policy makers will have to live on a lower standard of living, others like the chinese would also like to live on a higher level for some time[they probably will]..But the longer we wait for the recession the bigger we will get hit



[edit on 17-5-2007 by Foppezao]

As faras I can remember, the Iranian deal is still in the works, due to kick off next year. I'm wondering how the Bush immigration "deal" will play in tothe economic recession considerations.

Word on the street is that when Iran stalled early last year, Putin seized the moment to jump in front with the Russian (ruble) Bourse mid-2006. Since then, interest in the IB has waned. Earlier this year, I read two missives with minor mention (short on details) supporting this explanation. Tried, but I was unable to relocate them.

Will keep an eye out....

Peace &
Good Fortune
OBE1

China will be self supporting soon...and many countries will be forced to accept Chinese import regulations and procedures.
China is becoming the worlds manufacturing center, importing raw materials worldwide, exporting value added goods right back to the same countries. This is the bottom line of why China's economy is expanding 10% per year; ADDING VALUE. The USA no longer adds value.

the comment about USD being purchased for Trade platforms such as petrodollars is correct. There are also massively large platforms for agricultural products that must be settled in USD, there are PPP ( private placement platforms) that pay out USD, there are large programs at the UN and IMF that pay in USD, as well as auto exports, medical technologies, health care, many other smaller mechanisms that must settle in USD.
So, many countries, entities, foundations, and groups must maintain USD in their accounts constantly.
When they find a more ttractive alternative, they will take it. And the USD will fall. If its falls enough, it will Fail.


A Eurocrat once that said they did not care who runs a country as long as they control the Economy.
In a nutshell, the USA lost control of its Economy in 1913 with the Federal Reserve created. This is a private organization that is not beholden to anyone and borrows money from international bankers to finance created public debt on a scale that noboby here has touched yet...None of the figures quoted here are even close to the actual public debt, which must include 'funded' and "unfunded liabilities"
(basically on the books and off the books, a fancy way for congress to create a budget that ignores reality and allows greater borrowing).


CHina is not the problem and never was...the problem originates in congress and the mindset of the average American. We used to build magnificent projects, created a public education system that was envy of the world, sent men to moon within 9 years, and then we watched our government taken away from us and did nothing...in fact voted in the people that took it away.

We read how the ignorant Roman Mob was going to the coliseums while Rome fell....we have done far worse, we are giving the Emperor the tools to fell the USA.

[quote="radardog"] If the United States goes bankrupt, to a point where it can not pay its debt (interest), then China's investment goes to nothing. It will lose all Principle. The billions of dollars China invested in the United States will all be lost. What, then, does China have to gain if the US goes bankrupt?

WRONG. If you have a mortgage on your home and you default, the bank's investment doesn't go to nothing. They foreclose and take your house.

More and more U.S. businesses are being bought by foreign companies (as surrogates for their governments). For example, the flap when it was found that Dubai owned and operated most of the U.S. ports. This means workers are working for foreign owners, and the companies' profits are going overseas. Toyota, for example, is now the world's largest auto maker. They have U.S. plants, but they are controlled by the parent company in Japan. Most iron mines in the U.S. are now owned by foreign companies.

As soon as they desire, the countries will start cashing in their holdings. This means the U.S. has to print more money. This causes major inflation, so gasoline goes to $20/gallon, a loaf of bread will cost $15. However, wages won't go up. If the workers go on strike, the foreign companies will just close up the plants and the people will be out of a job.

The U.S. economy will collapse, most of us will be driven into poverty, and they can come in and buy all of the factories and farm land. Politicians are easy to bribe, and a starving poltician is especially easy to bribe. In a short while, they'll rescind the minimum wage laws. Then, Mexico will be building fences to keep the illegal aliens (U.S. citizens) from going there to get work.

Occam

Originally posted by Occam
As soon as they desire, the countries will start cashing in their holdings. This means the U.S. has to print more money. This causes major inflation, so gasoline goes to $20/gallon, a loaf of bread will cost $15. However, wages won't go up. If the workers go on strike, the foreign companies will just close up the plants and the people will be out of a job.

Occam

I am wondering if people like Occam and Hallberg have any education on economics outside of the realm of conspiracy sites.

Sad to say, but bad economic policy does not require the backing of a conspiracy.

"I am wondering if people like Occam and Hallberg have any education on economics outside of the realm of conspiracy sites"


Is this supposed to be a response..?
At least make an effort to post tangible and reasonable perspective. Copying partial post, adding a two line personal attack is not worthy of the space taken.

Bring something to the Table, do some research, understand what your talking about. Then post a summary that supports your point, or perspective. If you wish to debate a point, have some evidence, facts, research, anything that can provide the foundation for your debate.

Originally posted by Hallberg Rassy
Is this supposed to be a response..?

It isn't like what your saying is orginal. All you are doing is repeating things that are said by other uneducated people on the subject. "20 dollars per gallon gas" "15 dollar bread". What are your FACTS on that?

First off you need to reread my post, i did not state what you are mistakenly crediting me with. That is someone else.


Secondly if you have issue with someones post, merely disagreeing with them without supporting your perspective is fluffy. post something with substance that brings weight to your perspective, and give thought to other individual to consider your aspect of the debate.

Inflation...my pet peeve at the moment, is no conspiracy. Even Larry Kudlow had to eat & fill his tank this week. Dollar strength/purchasing power is derived from Dollar scarcity...hardly the condition we have today. The M-3 monetary aggregate was conviniently deemed obsolete last year...conspiracy? When all the sleight-of-hand adjustments are removed from the CPI & PPI, the data actually shows an inflation rate of 6%...conspiracy? Shadow Government Statistics cites inflation is closer to 10%.

Manipulating interest rates, adjusting margin levels for the more prominent investment entities, lowering bank reserve requirements, and 'Open Market Operations' (Repos), are some of the familiar mechanisms used to expand credit ie, the money supply. No corresponding increase in production = inflation.

While it [inflation] offers certain economic benefits for government, these benefits don't necessarily extend to the citizenry...quite the contrary. For example, the government I trust?...the US government, has made direct and indirect promises regarding future benefits, both to you, and to me. These promises center on social security, pensions, and medical benefits...to the tune of an estimated $50 trillion! How might an in-debt government deal with a looming $50 trillion entitlements crises? Well, one method would be to mask the true inflation numbers, allow the Dollar to devalue, and simply inflate the value of the benefits away...Joe Sixpack will never know what hit him. Conspiracy?

Most Americans, including myself until a few years ago, remain economically naive. We don't understand, and guess what?...we're not supposed to understand. All too complex. Well, it isn't, and there's no need to muck through stuffy, rococo renditions from the 'Austrian School' either. Many excellent books written for the layman today...'The Creature from Jekyll Island', by G. Edward Griffin should be required, high school level reading...that's why it never will be.

Peace &
Good Fortune
OBE1

[edit on 20-5-2007 by OBE1]

I am so glad I live in Canada, but I fear what all this means to the North American economy.
Hey wait a minute


Our Dollar hit a new high not seen since Oct 1977, like 92 cents.
Watch our dollar go above the US dollar
HAHAHAHAHAHA


you will all be sneaking into Canada to work like Mexicans do now in the US


[edit on 21-5-2007 by junglelord]

I was thinking, what would happen if there was a major breakthrough in nanotechnology that sparked a new industrial revolution. If it provided a cheap and efficient way to produce goods, this would likely sink the Chinese economy overnight. Maybe the American government has this up their sleeve and they're just waiting to release it.

Originally posted by Hallberg Rassy


First off you need to reread my post, i did not state what you are mistakenly crediting me with. That is someone else.


Secondly if you have issue with someones post, merely disagreeing with them without supporting your perspective is fluffy. post something with substance that brings weight to your perspective, and give thought to other individual to consider your aspect of the debate.

I know you didn't say that, but what you were saying was along the same like as what Occam and other people were saying. I used those examples to back up how preposterous the things people are saying on here actually are.

I am just picking on you because you probably read everything you are typing on here from ATS or another conspiracy site or people trying to sell gold.

I don't have proof bread will not be $15 because I can't tell the future. But I do have proof of the mass paranoia that is present on this board and the uninformed jabber rattlers who just repeat things and overpopulate the board like people in Beijing.

[edit on 22-5-2007 by RetinoidReceptor]

Originally posted by marg6043

Originally posted by Shar

The problem is---What the heck are you and I doing about it again?

With the type of political system we have right now is totally corrupted and taken over by an elite of few that controls who we chose for candidates and who we should vote for.

At the present state of our political system is impossible to do anything to stop them.

They pretty much control us, even when we are told that we elect our politicians the truth is that we vote for their choices. no ours.

I couldn't agree more Marge. It's all about who has the most money and the good ol' boy club. I wonder if even a North American Union would wake up this country anymore. What is it going to take to wake up this fat and lazy nation?

Originally posted by on_yur_6
I wonder if even a North American Union would wake up this country anymore. What is it going to take to wake up this fat and lazy nation?

Actually, we might catch a break. If the coming economic downturn is bad enough, the average American might ge the idea AFTER they've gotten a taste of hard times. then, public opinion might (might) change regarding the NAU. that's why we still need these competent discussions.

Sticking your head in the sand and hoping things get better is not an alternative. Pretending all is well, and leaving the mess for someone else to clean up is what gets us into these situations.

The facts are that the largest Export product the USA has is the US Dollar, it supports this product at a loss to maintain liquidity on world markets. We dont add value to products any longer, but develop technology and then export it to the lowest bidder. Maintaining the USD is placing massive strains on the USA Economy, which need to be accounted for sooner or later.

If we continue to develop Nanotech, which would be a bright spot, hopefully we dont give it away as well. Manufacturing, Mining and labor create true wealth, we need to get back to the basics.

Originally posted by Justin Oldham

Originally posted by on_yur_6
I wonder if even a North American Union would wake up this country anymore. What is it going to take to wake up this fat and lazy nation?

Actually, we might catch a break. If the coming economic downturn is bad enough, the average American might ge the idea AFTER they've gotten a taste of hard times. then, public opinion might (might) change regarding the NAU. that's why we still need these competent discussions.

Actually I think this is when the US government will present the idea of a NAU to the people as a means to recover a large economic downturn or depression. I can see them pounding the podium now, "Do you remember the days of 4.5% unemployment? Well we must form a union to compete with the EU and China!" It's coming one way or another.

In the mean time, start shopping for a high mpg motorcycle or scooter for the coming war with Iran. Fuel prices are already sky high I can't imagine what it's going to be like. The conflict with Iran may be the catalyst to collapse the economy. It won't be like a video game anymore when it affects everybody and the draft is used.

The North American Union, such as it is at this time, will take another 10-20 years of treaty making and alliance building before it becomes a reality. That doesn't mean we should stop talking about it. time is not on our side. 20 years sounds like a lot, but it isn't. Not when you stop to consider that so few people know about this thing, and what it'll do to us in the future. Think, then post. Make 'em count.