Why was the F-117 such a big secret?

Many on this forum (and else where) have pointed out on several occasions the the F-117 Nighthawk was the most secretive and sight-sensitve of all the Stealth aircraft, and that why it was tested at Area 51.

I am Not here to despute the truth of that claim. What I'm questioning is Why?

While the F-117 was indeed the first operational stealth aircraft, it is also the one with the most severly Limited strategic value. The reasons its value is so limited are as followes:

Range: The F-117's shape and small size have limited it's unrefuled range to the point where it needs tanker support to conduct a mission. Without tanker support the F-117 can't go beyond a few hundred miles at best.

Payload: The F-117 only carries two weapons up 2'000lbs each. This limits the aircraft to no more then 2 targets per sorty. Also, desipte some beliefs to the contray, the F-117 can't carry any of the newer 5'000 lbs class "Bunker Busters". (The plane is physically too small)

Operational Limits: The US Air Force has said that the plane lacks radar, which limits it to the Clear weather role. This weather sensitivity means it isn't always avalble because of weather conditions over the target.

Given these major limiting factors that affect it's strategic usefulness, why did the Air Force go above and beyond to hide the F-117 so long even doploying it as a "Black" Aircraft?

Was all the secracy around the F-117 really needed?

Tim

Originally posted by Ghost01
Was all the secracy around the F-117 really needed?

Silly question IMO!!!


The choices facing the USAF:

1. Reveal the presence of a reduced radar signature aircraft, capable of penetrating the Soviet radar defences above Eastern Germany, and wrecking the bridges/fuel dumps/ammo stores necessary for any Soviet movement into western europe. Thus allowing the Russians time to develop a counter before any prospective conflict began (thank god it didn't begin!).

- or -

2. Keep it a secret, so they don't know what the hell hit their bridges, only that they are gone, and they have to try and develop a counter within the space of a few weeks if any invasion is to be successful.



I know which one I'd choose.

That wasn't the question! The point was why did they take the secracy around the F-117 much further than with any other stealth plane every known?

Tim

well do we know that?
I mean the secrets are so compartamentalized that does anyone really know whats going on or what they are doing>
What we have is not what we see.

Originally posted by Ghost01
That wasn't the question! The point was why did they take the secracy around the F-117 much further than with any other stealth plane every known?

Brand new technology would be one reason. Deny Deny Deny is the hallmark of any black project. Why allow the Soviets to posses any information to develop a counter.

Different time, different era. It was the pinacle of the Cold War and tensions were high. The CCCP was at least numericaly surperior and making gains on all fronts. That has changed and Congress and the public want and demand more information. Also given the nature of budget constraints and the like, other countries are involved in production aka JSF so secrecy is impossible.

The reason why it was so secretive was because it was originally destined to be a 'silver bullet' weapon - complete and utter deniability under all circumstances.

It was supposed to be operated by the CIA, in much the same way as the SR-71s predecessor was, and used to attack targets that would have caused problems for the politicians at the time.

For example it would have been used to attack weapons shipments from the USSR to her satellite countries, or carry out assassination bombings against Southern American dictators or drug barons.

No aircraft detected, completely deniable.

It was ultimately decided that the aircraft be added to the USAF inventory, and this resulted in the grainy photo being released to the public.

Originally posted by Ghost01
That wasn't the question! The point was why did they take the secracy around the F-117 much further than with any other stealth plane every known?

Tim

But Tim, haven't you already answered your own question in the openeing post?

The F-117 was stealthy, at a time when NOBODY really knew anything about stealth outside the USA, so there is that obviously.

However, it was not an X-Plane, it was a combat aircraft and like you said, its performance parameters were severely limited in terms of speed, range and payload, therefore its secrecy was its defence, because it sure as hell isn't going to outfight *anything* that might be put up against it.

But when your enemy isn't even looking for it, and has no idea about the dangers posed by a stealth warplane, it is suddenly worth having, yes?

Originally posted by waynos

The F-117 was stealthy, at a time when NOBODY really knew anything about stealth outside the USA, so there is that obviously.

Plenty of people knew about 'stealth' outside of the US - hell, the maths the F-117 was based on originated in the USSR in the early 1960s (see the "Method of Edge Waves in the Physical Theory of Diffraction" by Pyotr Ya. Ufimtsev, 1964 published in the Journal of the Moscow Institute for Radio Engineering) and stealth aircraft had been pursued in one form or another in the USSR since world war 2.

Aside from the reason I gave in a prior comment in this thread, there was another good reason - self protection.

Think about it, you announce that you have an aircraft that is undetectable on radar, and suddenly every unexplainable explosion becomes your fault - a USSR oil refinery mysteriously blows up severely curtailing petroleum supplies? A ship sinks while carrying missile shipments to the gulf and the last radio transmission mentions a large explosion?

Just how far from war does that put you?

The Carter administration intened to use it as a "silver bullet" in the event of an all out war with the CCCP. This was one of the reasons behind the cancellation of the B-1A. (I still struggle with the logic of this unless they intended a follow on long range variant of the F-117A as the B-1A while marginal against Soviet defences of the time, it did have long range, but that what many sources have indicated. Using cruise missiles would have offet that somewhat but not all the way).

The limited range of the F-117A would have required basing in the UK but that would have been perfect for the Interdiction/SEAD/Strike role for the ground war.

You are right of course Richard. I was trying to make a point quickly and ended up wording it very poorly, giving the impression that you responded to. Completely my fault.

I was meaning to say nobody outside the USA knew about stealth in terms of actually deployed weaponry, not that the theory behind the technology wasn't known. I know that's what I wrote though, in my haste.

Originally posted by waynos
But Tim, haven't you already answered your own question in the openeing post?

The F-117 was stealthy, at a time when NOBODY really knew anything about stealth outside the USA, so there is that obviously.

No! The reason my opening post did Not answer the question is because if it was simpally the time when the project wos concieved, then the same secracy should have been applied to the B-2 Spirit. However, the B-2 didn't spend the first 8 or 10 years of it's flying carrer with it very exsitance being completely denied.

Waynos, Remember that despite it's first flight being in the late 1980's the B-2 was origionally concieved at the same time as the F-117.

Following the sucess of Have Blue, the Air Force came up with two concepts for stealth warplanes, the first one eveloved into the F-117, and the second into the B-2!

Tim

Originally posted by Ghost01
However, the B-2 didn't spend the first 8 or 10 years of it's flying carrer with it very exsitance being completely denied.

What about the simplest possible answer: The size of the B-2 made it impractical to completely deny its existance. And I mean not only the physical size of the aircraft itself (it wouldn't be easy to get it from the plant to Groom Lake without anybody noticing), but also the size of the development program in terms of cost and number of involved personnel.

I'm sure it would have been possible to "hide" the B-2, but that would have further increased the already enormous costs. Maybe it simply wasn't worth it? After all, any details (incl. the flying-wing configuration) were secret for a long time.

I think that if it had been practical to completely hide the B-2, the USAF would have done it.

Regards
yf

By stating the crafts flaws you also revealed why it was so imperative to keep it a secret.

The "enemy" would only need to have a couple clear measurements on the size and shape of the craft to know some of these limitations and with that the probability of detection of this "stealth" craft skyrockets.

It being a well kept secret kept its flaws from making the craft useless.

This is how it always goes with technology, especialy when its weapons or defense capable technology.

If you know the flaws, you can beat the technology.
If you know about the technology, you can duplicate it and with a fresh set of brains and eyes, maybe even improve on it.
If you know it exists, you can prepare for it.

Another example, your a boxer, your not just any boxer, but one with the hardest punches and the fastest feet.

But unfortunatly, if someone hits you hard enough on the jaw, you drop KO right away, if someone hits you on the forehead you get drowzy and slow down considerably.

Do you want any of your opponents to know these things about you?

When will it become a sure thing that they do know these things about you? When your famous and have been fighting publicly for a long time.

The only reason to keep secrets is because when the secret comes out, the information gained with that reveals your weakness and makes you weak.

Superman is only vulnerable to 1 thing yet he gets raped by it in every movie and every series there has ever been about him. If noone knew his secret, he would've stayed invincible.

[edit on 15/5/07 by thematrix]

Originally posted by RichardPrice
The reason why it was so secretive was because it was originally destined to be a 'silver bullet' weapon - complete and utter deniability under all circumstances.

It was supposed to be operated by the CIA, in much the same way as the SR-71s predecessor was, and used to attack targets that would have caused problems for the politicians at the time.

For example it would have been used to attack weapons shipments from the USSR to her satellite countries, or carry out assassination bombings against Southern American dictators or drug barons.

No aircraft detected, completely deniable.

It was ultimately decided that the aircraft be added to the USAF inventory, and this resulted in the grainy photo being released to the public.

It was always USAF program, starting with "Have Blue", and its purpose like was mentioned above, would have been to go after Warsaw Pact Air Defense Systems, POL and other kinds of chokepoints.

Let me add some additional food for thought:

During the early development years and through the first few years of the F-117A's deployment, it was standard operational doctrine to transport Nighthawks to remote locations via C-5 Galaxy transports.

The concept was that you could pack up a few Nighthawks and their support crew, fly them to a remote airbase under cover, and then prep them for strike missions under a complete cloud of secrecy. Politically sensitive targets, or high-value targets with heavy defenses could be procesuted with a few aircaft with complete surprise. And with the lack of accurate (if any) radar tracking, therer would be no way of determining the origin of the strike package. Or even knowing if the attack was from aircraft or cruise missiles.

The F-117A's smaller size afforded it a greater degree of operational flexibility, which was why it was kept secret for so long. This was highly impractical for the B-2.