Dept. of Homeland Security: "You'll get a National ID and you'll Like it"

Originally posted by iori_komei

Originally posted by Vekar
Still, the chip emits waves, so if you smash it, and it shows it is no longer active when the mother computers run a system scan...

An RFID chip does not have an internal power source, or a transmitter strong enough to
broadcast beyond a few feet, so the only way that any system that would scan for it would
know it's inactive, is if you brought it within the proximity of a scanner with an internet
connection to the mothersystem.

now it might not but be possible. Could they could design such a chip that could? If your working for that verichip and you wanna improve the technology for better sale you would extend the range of the emission sell it as "less intrusive", seems like a natural progression, just some thoughts



[edit on 11-5-2007 by 911fnord]

[edit on 11-5-2007 by 911fnord]

What would drive people to give up their freedoms?

If 9/11 was a demolition job, as anyone with eyes and the time to watch a video can clearly see, what makes you think that something more sinister isnt in the works?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

A mass attack would drive people underground long before the predicted, yes, predicted solar flare event that will take place sometime within the next 2 years. Information can be found on this site, but what could give people more reason to give up their rights over fear than a nuclear attack of any scale in the US?

It's the next thing on the list of worst case scenarios.

-Shadow

Originally posted by 911fnord
now it might not but is it not possible between now and then they could design such a chip? i mean honestly if your working for that company and you wanna improve the technology for better sale you wold extend the range of the emission sell it as "less intrusive", just throwing some ideas out

It's a question of physical limits.
RFID technology has physical limits, you can not, at least without technology that
if it ever exists wont exist for centuries, create an RFID chip, which is the size of a grain of
rice, that has it's own internal power source, and can somehow transmit immensely strong
signals to reach a relay point, that could be as far as several miles away.

Now, there are of course other implants that can do what so many people think RFID chips
will do, but these will be much larger, and more intrusive, really not something that the
every day person would really accept, considering it would'nt be as simple as a 5 minute doctors visit.

Originally posted by bestideayet
After 2013, people whose IDs do not meet those standards will not be allowed to board planes or enter federal buildings.

Oh yeah I'm going to flag this thread.

No boarding planes or entering federal buildings?

Fine, I can live with that. Didn't want to go in anyway.

As for what's wrong with it...

If this is a 'free' country, but they think they are going to force this on ANYONE against their will....then it is NO LONGER 'free'.

Originally posted by Diplomat

There is no such thing, you guys are just paranoid...

[edit on 11-5-2007 by Diplomat]

Calling people on a conspiracy site paranoid is incredibly rude.

Just think.

Most conspiracies that have later been proven to a reasonable level to get the people outside of sites like this interested....started as a conspiracy that was hard to believe.

Why do people come to a site like ATS and call people paranoid?
Is it just that it's only conspiracies that THEY are interested in are the only ones with merit?

In countries other than the U.S they are pushing for National ID cards.
Australia being one of them. WHY??

Isn't being a citizen of a country enough ID to prove who we are?
My birth certificate should be more than enough prove who I am.
If the certificate doesn't prove that then why issue birth certificates at all?

If birth certificates are too easy to forge well then...
They should invest money to make these less forge proof.
Or....harder to get.

We don't need another ID card.
Most people have enough ID to prove who they are already.

Who is to say it isn't conspiracy by the NWO?
At this point no one really knows for sure.
So that conspiracy is still open for discussion IMO




[edit on 12-5-2007 by Flighty]

Well what if we put an atomic element that would have its electrons become excited by a specific RF and bounce back a frequency telling us the chip is active.


Could it be possible to exploit the electronic impulses in our body to power the chip?


What about a nano 'wind' turbine that would generate power by using our blood flow?

Originally posted by Flighty
Why do people come to a site like ATS and call people paranoid?

Well, there's a fine line between healthy paranoia and seeing conspiracies in everything, and different people are on various positions when it has to do with it.

And there is a time when calling someone overly paranoid is called for.

For instance, if some person notices there toaster, that they bought in 1995 is acting up, than automatically assume there's some government conspiracy to monitor what they eat, that's definitely overly paranoid.

Isn't being a citizen of a country enough ID to prove who we are?

No, that's not evidence of anything, anyone can say they are citizens of a country, it does not
mean it is true.

We don't need another ID card. Most people have enough ID to prove who they are already.

I highly doubt that, I only have one form of identification, my ID card, anything else is
not easily accessible, that is if I'm out and they want more than just that, I'd have to go get it,
and I really doubt most people want to carry multiple forms of ID on them.

Originally posted by ShadowEyes
No boarding planes or entering federal buildings?

Fine, I can live with that. Didn't want to go in anyway.

As for what's wrong with it...

If this is a 'free' country, but they think they are going to force this on ANYONE against their will....then it is NO LONGER 'free'.

I agree, I don't fly or ussually have any need to enter a federal building.

But what happens when you are called to federal jury duty and you are not allowed into the courthouse for jury selection?

You are guily of contempt of court (if my memory serves me correctly).

See the problem? And that's just the first of MANY ways they will get you and me and anyone else who refuses this ID.

And for me refusing it is simple, I refuse to own a car and don't currently have a valid driver's liscense.

Vas

Originally posted by Watchful1
Well what if we put an atomic element that would have its electrons become excited by a specific RF and bounce back a frequency telling us the chip is active.

I'm not quite sure if that's even possible, but even than you'd still need a transmitter to tell the
source that the signal was received.

Could it be possible to exploit the electronic impulses in our body to power the chip?

Well that depends, if you mean to provide it with a low-power static power source so that the
scanner would'nt have to provide the initial power, than yes, that is possible, but it's
not possible to get enough energy to power a long range transmitter, and beyond that there's
the matter of the transmitter having to be large enough to even send it in the first place.

What about a nano 'wind' turbine that would generate power by using our blood flow?

Technically that would be a Hydro-plasmotic energy generator, not a wind generator in any way.

I will admit that is an interesting concept, but it's not something that would provide alot of power,
unless you had billions of them everywhere in your body all somehow connected to the main implant.

Originally posted by iori_komei
For instance, if some person notices there toaster, that they bought in 1995 is acting up, than automatically assume there's some government conspiracy to monitor what they eat, that's definitely overly paranoid.

Dude... that's not cool... *looks around nervously*

I don't really care if the conspiracy nuts are right about RFID in a national ID. Why should I? RFID is short range, close proximity. The range of detection is far less than that of a camera or the human eye, and I'm not worried about either of those. Why should I be about this? I can just leave my ID in the car if it gets to be a serious concern. I couldn't care less if Big Brother knows I have an unhealthy addiction to breakfast with The King.

Originally posted by iori_komei

Could it be possible to exploit the electronic impulses in our body to power the chip?

Well that depends, if you mean to provide it with a low-power static power source so that the
scanner would'nt have to provide the initial power, than yes, that is possible, but it's
not possible to get enough energy to power a long range transmitter, and beyond that there's
the matter of the transmitter having to be large enough to even send it in the first place.

What about a nano 'wind' turbine that would generate power by using our blood flow?

Technically that would be a Hydro-plasmotic energy generator, not a wind generator in any way.

I will admit that is an interesting concept, but it's not something that would provide alot of power,
unless you had billions of them everywhere in your body all somehow connected to the main implant.

Hydro-plasmotic energy generator sounds way cooler.


You said its possible to exploit our electronic impulses to some extent. Could we use small magnents that would spin a suspended static generator that could use our initial electronic impulses to alternate poles until the generator could use the collected energy to power itself exponentially?


I digress...



What is the plan for the ID cards? Wouldnt the most dangerous terrorist have inside ties anyways?


I guess I already feel cell phone GPS and surveillance satellites cover tracking me...what do I have to lose?

[edit on 12-5-2007 by Watchful1]

Originally posted by apc

RFID is short range, close proximity. The range of detection is far less than that of a camera or the human eye, and I'm not worried about either of those. Why should I be about this?

Originally posted by Watchful1
My question is would you get an RFID chip in your arm if it meant during an invasion or Martial Law UGCV's could identify you as friendly and would not shoot?

... a chip in my arm and a chip in my wallet are two very different things.

Originally posted by Watchful1
Hydro-plasmotic energy generator sounds way cooler.

That it does, honestly I may be the first person to actually have used that term, as I've never
thought or heard of the concept before, so I had to think of the correct name.

It is a cool idea though, I have to admit.

You said its possible to exploit our electronic impulses to some extent. Could we use small magnets that would spin a suspended static generator that would use our initial electronic impulses to alternate poles until the generator could use the collected energy to power itself exponentially?

Er, I'm not quite sure, but it is hypothetically possible to tap into the bodies natural electric
field to get a little energy directly, though I'm not sure what negative effects that would
have on the body.

What is the plan for the ID cards? Would'nt the most dangerous terrorist have inside ties anyways?

To save time and make it easier for them, that is instead of having to spend five minutes to
process someone through, it could take five seconds.

For the average person a national drivers license would also mean you would'nt have to take a
drivers test and get a new drivers license if you moved form one state to another.

I'm not as worried about rfid chipping in my drivers license as i am about this:

Beginning July 15, Applied Digital Solutions will begin beta testing on humans an implant technology capable of allowing users to emit a homing beacon, have vital bodily functions monitored and confirm identity when making e-commerce transactions.

The first production run of "Digital Angel®" devices has begun, the Florida-based, NASDAQ-traded company has announced.

While the manufacturers of the technology bill it as a potential lifesaver, others fear the advent of the device threatens personal privacy – and even raises the ugly specter of the Bible's "mark of the beast." Applied Digital Solutions, an e-business-to-business solutions provider, acquired the patent rights to the miniature digital transceiver it has named "Digital Angel®." The company plans to market the device for a number of uses, including as a "tamper-proof means of identification for enhanced e-business security."

Digital Angel® sends and receives data and can be continuously tracked by global positioning satellite technology. When implanted within a body, the device is powered electromechanically through the movement of muscles and can be activated either by the "wearer" or by a monitoring facility. Source

I have been following the Digital Angel project since I came across a story about it on the internet back in 1998. Back then, it was just a prototype; even so, it was creepy and more than a little Orwellian, if you know what I mean. Now, however, they are ready to start beta testing the chip and probably can have FDA approval for a full rollout by next year. This is what's down the road for us, people. If it is ever deployed on a national mandatory basis, we are talking 1984 and then some.

Originally posted by biotic
How come i cant give out WATS votes anymore? I didnt even use my three for this month. Anyways i woulda given you one if that counts.

Thanks, it’s the thought that counts anyway, right..
Funny I knew something was missing from my avatar screen about a week ago, and never realized what it was until you just mentioned this.

Originally posted by Vekar
Someone explain this "Holographic liscence." I have not heard of that term, ever.

It’s a license with a hologram embedded into the plastic coating which covers it.You can kind of make them out in this photo:

Originally posted by Azathoth
ince the invention of the credit card, we've had a way of "being" tracked.

Not at this level of tracking. A prime example is here in Florida we already have set up the infrastructure to track RFID’s on our highway system. This has been implemented under the auspices of the “Sun Pass” road toll system. If you look at this photo:


You’ll see the actual reader is the brown square at the end of the pole. These are all over the roads here, and folks who submit to the tracking even get special lanes on the road as they don’t have to stop at the toll booths.



Personally, I think anyone using these systems out of convenience is out of their mind, I mean how hard is it, really, to slow down and throw a handful of change in a bucket?

Anyway, come to find out that they have passed a law here that now we have to get new license plates every five years, rather then just a tag. Who here wants to guess at how long its going to be before the RIFD tags are in our license plates too, if they are not already. Is it really the governments business what road I drive on at what time, how often, and where I go with my “Free” time?

Originally posted by Azathoth
I've had a governement issued ID with a chip in it since 1997.

I also carried one at the airport with a customs attachment back in the early 90’s. Not really the same thing though. I have tried to stay off the religious angle of this, but that is my main concern with the Nation ID. Its not simply the tracking, or any of that. If the government were to track my movements they would get really bored, pretty fast. It’s the loss of freedom, and the religious angle, which worries me the most. I am zero percent afraid of some terrorist killing me, I am vastly more afraid of this ID. Why because it is the first thing in history that meets every single criteria of what the bible refers to as “the mark”. Before anyone asks, no it does not have to be implanted, or connected to the skin, that is a misquote of the verse.

Originally posted by Azathoth
In my opinion, the only people who should be worried about a national ID is the ones that have reasons to worry about (i.e Illegal activities).

I have no legal reason to be afraid of anyone knowing everything I do, yet I am afraid of this. Funny that all my law enforcement friends say this exact same thing to me, “What you worried about you got nothing to hide”. I am worried as it conflicts with my religious beliefs. While you may not prescribe to those beliefs, they are my beliefs and I have a right to believe that way, which is why I live in this country to begin with. Now who are you, or the government, or anyone else to force this on me as its against my religious convictions. To me, God gave man free will and does not force man to believe in him or believe in any specific way, who is some man made government or group to take my free will away?

Originally posted by Azathoth
Now all they need is some biometrics on it.

It will have biometrics in it, finger prints or retina scan. Just like “in their right hand, or in their foreheads”.

Originally posted by iori_komei
Well, there's a fine line between healthy paranoia and seeing conspiracies in everything, and different people are on various positions when it has to do with it.

When Canada, the UK, Australia, and other countries are implementing the same type of system, I would call that at least an agenda on someones part.

Originally posted by apc
RFID is short range, close proximity.

Not as short as you might think, look at the “Sun Pass” photos above. Yeah it’s short range-wise, like maybe 100 feet or so, but they are cheap and popping up all over the place. They have doorway scanners and floor tile scanners for shopping centers, for instance.

Originally posted by defcon5
When Canada, the UK, Australia, and other countries are implementing the same type of system, I would call that at least an agenda on someones part.

Does'nt have to be an agenda, good ideas tend to catch on in other places fast.

its funny how its like basically do this or else.. what the hell? that's what makes me trip out..they know people won't be down for it so they have that ultimatum.. if u dont like it leave..okay spain here i come haha

Originally posted by iori_komei
Does'nt have to be an agenda, good ideas tend to catch on in other places fast.

Kind of funny how they all seemed to pop up at the same time, right after the patriot act was implemented in this country, and we made the threat to other countries that they were either with us or with the terrorists. This was also about the time that certain people in our government who would have spoken out against all this stuff started getting envelopes full of white powder. Hm, kind of funny how that ended up being from our own government stockpile, and it never got investigated or prosecuted. Still think it’s not a conspiracy?

[edit on 5/12/2007 by defcon5]

Originally posted by TheBadge
its funny how its like basically do this or else.. what the hell? that's what makes me trip out..they know people won't be down for it so they have that ultimatum.. if u dont like it leave..okay Spain here i come haha

Well, just to be the Devils Advocate, Spanish nightclubs have voluntary RFID chip implant
programs for there VIPs that allow them access and payment for drinks with them.