RAF Jets Intercept Russian Planes

Humm, the Russians have been caught quite a few times doing things like this lately.

Anyone else remembers the Russians planes which entered Canadian airspace without permission and even U.S. territory about a year ago?

Actually it happened on two ocassions last year.

Russian Bombers Penetrate N. American Buffer Zone, Intercepted by U.S., Canadian Jet Fighters
Created: 30.09.2006 13:32 MSK (GMT +3), Updated: 14:53 MSK


MosNews


A new U.S. push for greater Russian military openness collided with Cold War habits last week as Russian long-range bombers flew within 15 miles of U.S. airspace off Alaska, Denver Post website reported.

Fully-armed U.S. fighter jets responded, intercepting the two bombers.

The Russian Tu-95 bombers on a training exercise Thursday penetrated a North American buffer zone, said a statement Friday from Maj. Gen. Brett Cairns, operations chief for Colorado Springs-based North American Aerospace Defense Command.

www.mosnews.com...

Russian bombers flew undetected across Arctic - AF commander
13:40 | 22/ 04/ 2006




MOSCOW, April 22 (RIA Novosti) - Russian military planes flew undetected through the U.S. zone of the Arctic Ocean to Canada during recent military exercises, a senior Air Force commander said Saturday.

The commander of the country's long-range strategic bombers, Lieutenant General Igor Khvorov, said the U.S. Air Force is now investigating why its military was unable to detect the Russian bombers.

"They were unable to detect the planes either with radars or visually," he said.

Khorov said that during the military exercises in April, Tu-160 Blackjack bombers and Tu-95 Bears had successfully carried out four missile launches. Bombing exercises were held using Tu-22 Blinders.

en.rian.ru...

We know of those two times they did this last year, and at least once this year. But how many times have they done it and it has not made public or even the military wasn't aware of?....

Great friends to have to drop uninvited with armed aircraft in other countries territories....



[edit on 14-5-2007 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by stumason
Whether the claim is true or not, I do not know...

With regards to your descprition it is as unlikley as they get, I'm tempted to say impossible but that tends to have nasty habit of biting you in the ass later on...

Originally posted by WestPoint23

Originally posted by stumason
Whether the claim is true or not, I do not know...

With regards to your descprition it is as unlikley as they get, I'm tempted to say impossible but that tends to have nasty habit of biting you in the ass later on...

Westy, come on.. Try not to take it too seriously. Would have thought you'd recognise a tongue in cheek remark when you see one! Honestly, you Yanks...

I was merely hinting that the RAF have a propensity to fly very fast, very low and are very good at it.

I wasn't actually saying they do Mach 1 at 3ft....

Originally posted by stumason
Would have thought you'd recognise a tongue in cheek remark when you see one! Honestly, you Yanks...

After reading that here I what I'm feeling like... Anyway, since this came up, there was a show on not too long ago about a simulator test involving an RAF pilot chasing a cruise missile at 100 ft doing 500 mph...

also being a live fire exercise - and the bear being packed with ELINT gear , would just be listening as to the new radar and how the operate

Stumason and WEst Point,

Terrain following/Terrian Avoidance radar is not new. It has however been greatly updated since the days I was trained on it for the US Air Force.

IN those days it was used in the RF 4C reconasance aircraft. I believe it was also used in certain versinons of the F 111 bombers.

THe altitude hold setting on this radar could be brought down to as far as 50 feet off the ground. This is way to low though there are as Stumason properly declares ...pilots nutty enough to try it. Between 100 and 200 feet is plenty low. This is especially true whey you are approaching Mach numbers.

This system has only increased in accuracy and radar resolution since those days.

This is the type of radar suitable for the design roles of the fighter bomber RAF Tornados. You have to be a bit nutty and off the beaten path in thinking and excitement expectations to be any good at this sort of thing. To me this kind of flying seperates the men from the boys .....quickly.

To my knowlege..this type of radar is also being utilized in certain cargo type aircraft for drops into hostile areas at low altitude.

In the olde days it was part of a C 5 Galaxy mult mode radar though I dont think they ever used it in this manner. It was a radical looking antenna. I'm sure it has been updated with newer equipment since those olde days.

Thanks,
Orangetom

even years ago in jaguars the RAF surprised the **** out of the US forces on a red flag by coming in at 500 mph 25 feet off the deck and hitting the target


low and fast is how they train.

I'm fairly sure there was footage on the UK news from Gulf War 1991 where they showed two Jaguars and a Buccaneer flying at less than 100 feet above the desert en route to target.

I'll have to see if I can dig it out.

Don't forget those damn JP233 runway denial bombs we used as well great idea they were.....hey guys, lets fly straight and at low level over a hostile target..... genius.

Wow..
Lookie what I ran into here!


I doubt the planes were out there for any reason other than recce ops on the NATO exercise..

And somebody asked what chance did these planes have against Tornadoes in a
active engagement..

Originally posted by Harlequin
even years ago in jaguars the RAF surprised the **** out of the US forces on a red flag by coming in at 500 mph 25 feet off the deck and hitting the target

The British forces in general surprise the Americans in most things we do! Low on cash and without the fancy toy's, our boy's are still respected forbeing a bit...special

Originally posted by Harlequin
low and fast is how they train.

Indeed.

I would ask my aunt's if it translates into anything else, but I'd probably get a slap!

I'm fairly sure there was footage on the UK news from Gulf War 1991 where they showed two Jaguars and a Buccaneer flying at less than 100 feet above the desert en route to target.

I remember Waynos once either showing a video, or recanting it, (I don't remember) of a Buccaneer at an airshow that requested low level fly-by permission from the tower. When cleared for 80ft, the pilot replies

"Roger, climbing"...

Damn crazy..

EDIT: And those two F-15's that sprung the Eurofighter after an exercise complained (after they were killed by the EF) that the RAF didn't play fair as they flew too low and too fast...

Didn'y play fair? You started it!#

Don't forget those damn JP233 runway denial bombs we used as well great idea they were.....hey guys, lets fly straight and at low level over a hostile target..... genius.

Not a bad idea in theory as the enemy will probably not see you coming until you plant one on them. Better than that silly American idea of flying high where their Radar can see you.....



I'm only joking Westy

[edit on 15/5/07 by stumason]

Originally posted by Muaddib
Humm, the Russians have been caught quite a few times doing things like this lately.

They've been caught with what?

Flying in international airspace?

Like I explained earlier, International Airspace is analogous to International waters. They weren't in International airspace, but rather UK airspace over the Hebrides.

Originally posted by stumason
Like I explained earlier, International Airspace is analogous to International waters. They weren't in International airspace, but rather UK airspace over the Hebrides.

From the article

"The exercise was in international waters and the Russians have got just as much right to be there as we have. We do it to them, they do it to us.

"All the RAF is doing is telling them: We could do this for real if we wanted to, so go and tell your mates back home'."

source

[edit on 15-5-2007 by yanchek]

Originally posted by apc
Are they certain they were even Russian? I mean you can buy their planes off eBay.

Heck, you can even buy Islands and Aircraft Carriers of of e-bay!

There is nothing much to this story imho, everyone spies on everyone else and these russians just wanted a frontrow seat in a life fire spectacle.

Here is a map of the exercise area's around Scotland where Neptune Wariior takes place. Looks pretty damn UK-ish to me.

See the blue bits? Those are the exercise ranges used by the MoD. It is most certainly within the EEZ, thus, is British Airspace.

International airspace/waters, start where the EEZ finishes.

As I said, International Airspace/Waters are analogous to each other.

stumason,

I believe you are in error here.

EEZ does not equal territorial waters. Territorial waters are 12 nautical miles from coast of a country. EEZ constitutes 200 nautical miles from a coast and are used for research and economical exploitation of marine resources which is in a monopolly of a country that declares this zone.

By international law, the notion of a country's sovereign airspace corresponds with the maritime definition of territorial waters as being 12 miles out from a nation's coastline. Airspace not within any country's territorial limit is considered international, analogous to the "high seas" in maritime law.

And as artical I quoted states

The exercise was staged in international waters off the Scottish coast over the past week and involved UK and allied warships.

So, Russian planes were in international airspace. The UK war planes used a show of force, but that is the only thing they could do. Everything else would be an international inccident. But if there would be a russian fishing ship in the EEZ, now that's a whole new ball game.

Originally posted by stumason
EDIT: And those two F-15's that sprung the Eurofighter after an exercise complained (after they were killed by the EF) that the RAF didn't play fair as they flew too low and too fast...

Didn'y play fair?

You started it!#

Stu, as far as I'm concerned this event did not even happen, complete fabrication. The corresponding circumstance, attitude or comments (from the pilots...) are therefore amusing to say the least.

And the other poster is correct, 12nm is the international standard for territorial waters/airspace, the EEZ does not prohibit right of passage. What you are proposing is not unlike the 2001 incident involving China and the US. Apparently their pilot (and their procedures) incorrectly extended the national airspace beyond 12nm. That event also tells us that such misunderstandings can be tragic...

[edit on 15-5-2007 by WestPoint23]

Originally posted by WestPoint23

Originally posted by stumason
EDIT: And those two F-15's that sprung the Eurofighter after an exercise complained (after they were killed by the EF) that the RAF didn't play fair as they flew too low and too fast...

Didn'y play fair?

You started it!#

Stu, as far as I'm concerned this event did not even happen, complete fabrication.

Westy, you probably didn't notice the incident mate - it was probably a bit too fast for ya

Yeah I tend to agree with Yanchek..

EEZs cannot be termed as territorial waters. 200 nautical miles is quite an expansion.

Everyone seems to be deliberately missing the point. I didn't say the territorial waters went out to 200 miles, but that International Airspace does not begin until 200 miles out, as it is analogous to International Waters, which is beyond the 200 mile limit for the EEZ.