Philadelphia bans psychics

Apparently, a week or two ago someone in the police department brought an old law to the attention of prosecutors: reading tarot cards, gazing into crystal balls, or pretending to be able to read people's thoughts "for gain or lucre" is a 3rd degree misdemeanor. This law was passed sometime in the 1960s, but everyone had forgotten about it. Happily, it has returned out of obscurity to shut down no fewer than 16 "psychic" businesses. No arrests were made, but the psychics were firmly instructed to find a new line of work, and if they don't, it's off to the pokey with them.

Link

I guess if you are psychic you might not want to practice in this town anymore. I dont think this very fair for them, they have rights too!

[edit on 5/11/2007 by kinglizard]

There's a reason places like Philadelphia don't want psychics practicing in their towns. It's so innocent people aren't scammed out of their money! Psychic smychic.

Just my opinion on the matter.

Originally posted by mcgilligan02
I guess if you are psychic you might not want to practice in this town anymore. I dont think this very fair for them, they have rights too!

I guess if the psychics were really psychic they would have seen this coming.

Originally posted by Skibum

Originally posted by mcgilligan02
I guess if you are psychic you might not want to practice in this town anymore. I dont think this very fair for them, they have rights too!

I guess if the psychics were really psychic they would have seen this coming.

That's the funniest thing I've heard all day!

Thank you.

I smell a Substantive Due Process and Contract Clause challenge, and I think the psychics would win.

Originally posted by uberarcanist
I smell a Substantive Due Process and Contract Clause challenge, and I think the psychics would win.

Huh?

What Substantive DP right was violated here?

The Contracts Clause jurisprudence has been all but dead since 1937 - it died with the Lochner Era.

I don't see a case from a constitutional law standpoint. Unless you pack SCOTUS with 5 more Justice Thomases, and they grant cert.


EDIT: Somehow I don't see psychics drumming up public outcry to get this law taken off the books. Sucks for them.

[edit on 11-5-2007 by NineSquared]

Bah. They'll just all move to Bala Cynwyd. That sounds more psychicy/druidy, anyway.

Originally posted by NineSquared

Originally posted by uberarcanist
I smell a Substantive Due Process and Contract Clause challenge, and I think the psychics would win.

Huh?

What Substantive DP right was violated here?

The Contracts Clause jurisprudence has been all but dead since 1937 - it died with the Lochner Era.

I don't see a case from a constitutional law standpoint. Unless you pack SCOTUS with 5 more Justice Thomases, and they grant cert.


EDIT: Somehow I don't see psychics drumming up public outcry to get this law taken off the books. Sucks for them.

[edit on 11-5-2007 by NineSquared]

It won't pass rational basis review, buddy.

real psychics don't charge money, i agree with the city about the banning.

Originally posted by malakiem
real psychics don't charge money, i agree with the city about the banning.

Unhuh, and real doctors don't pay for their services either...

Gosh, this is the kind of talking-out-the-ass tripe I'm sick of seeing on this forum.

Originally posted by uberarcanist
It won't pass rational basis review, buddy.

Pretty much anything passes rational basis review. I know this is grossly off topic but I'm curious what makes you think this.

It won't pass rational basis review because it's a irrebbutable presumption. You see, the psychics are presumed to be fakers and there's nothing they can do to prove otherwise. See Vlandis v. Kline.

Since this is a criminal statute, one assumes that if any of the psychics were to go to trial, they could offer evidence that they were "real" to rebut the state's position. Without the text of the statute (and a PA Bar License) I couldn't say for sure, of course.

I don't think I'd tell a client they could pass rational basis review based on the case you cited. Weinberger v. Salfi and a host of circuit court cases indicate otherwise.

I've spent way too much time thinking about this.

And there are plenty of bad MD's, psychologists and hairdressers out there as well, that take your money, but you don't see thier professions being banned.

I am a psychic and Tarot card reader and have, at times, done so professionally. Yes, I charge money, because I have spent 25 years honing these skills and I am good at what I do.
I know many others who are as well. We have never ripped anyone off. In fact, my clients always told me that I helped them quite a bit.
For me, it's a spiritual tool, one that helps me look at my Shadow self. It's part of my religion, being Pagan. I would fight it based on that, and also on discrimination of psychics and Pagans. Many good, honest people who are genuinely psychic and very good at reading Tarot would not be able to make a living, but then again maybe that's what they're aiming for, who knows?

All it will do is drive underground, those seeking psychic help, kinda like prostituion and drug use. You can't legislate these things, it doesn't work.

Further...I would leave it to the psychics involved to decide how to handle the notion of a court challenge. If they're any good...they'll know how the case will end up and file accordingly. If they are fakes, they proceed on that basis.

And yes, Forestlady, my dear...everybody is indeed a smartass!

I agree that this will drive psychics underground, that it is a bad idea, and that it is unnecessary. I was just taking issue with a specific legal challenge raised (it's what I'm trained to do after all ).

I see no problem charging money to provide a service. If people want that service, they will pay for it. If they don't, they can just take their pretty legs and walk on down the road.

I'm guessing the cop who brought this law to the attention of prosecutors went to a psychic, didn't like what he or she heard, and got pi$$ed about it.

Cops.

love to see them in court and prove their psychic ability! alas i dont think it will happen....

maybe their are some people who genuinly think they are psychic and others just outright liars. Either way i dont think they have any special abilities.

www.youtube.com...

they may or may not be fakers, but here's a point that doesn't seem to have come up..

if you're willing to PAY for magic beans, and someone GIVES you magic beans, no guarantees, and they don't grow a beanstalk....

is it their fault for hawking crappy magic beans, or your fault for spending your money on them?

the bottom line for this is me. psychics may be real, they may be fake, and there may be some real and some fake (probably the most likely case). but if you're willing to GIVE THEM YOUR MONEY, for something that is, basically by definition, an unreliable service, then it's your own choice. it's not hurting anyone else, whether the psychics are frauds or not. there are plenty of other stupid ways that people throw away their money, and I don't see them being outlawed anywhere.

In fact, what if we flip this around? since I'm guessing this law was based on religion (or at the very least, the guy who brought it up was doing so for religious reasons). would anyone get behind making tithing to a church illegal? I mean, it's pretty much the same thing. you're giving your money away in exchange for something nebulous and (strictly speaking from a scientific fact point of view) very likely non-existent.

is it any worse to spend your money on Miss Cleo and her psychic friends than it is to spend it on GodJuice(tm)?

I'm not saying by any means that tithing at church should be illegal, I was just trying to illustrate a point. it's YOUR money. if you decide to use it in some spiritual pursuit, to someone who may or may not be a huckster (there's been more than one church that's basically been a scam set up to defraud the faithful), then it's YOUR choice.


[edit on 17/5/2007 by Nick Nightstalker]