Yshu Ha-Natzri name of Jesus???

The Real Name of Jesus:
THEORIES ON THE ORIGIN OF THE MESSIAH'S NAME:
THE STAR OF THE MESSIAH (NUMBERS 24:17) = THE NORTHERN STAR (MATTHEW 2)
Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon to the Old Testament states the following:


The Hebrew word "`Esh" is by definition a bright northern star or stars in the Ursa Major constellation. Ursa Major is translated into "Big Bear". More specifically heed the note in the side margin which is displayed to the right. "Eesh" is also a reference to "the constellation of the bear" which is the same Northern constellation mentioned previously.
H.W.F. Gesenius goes on to illustrate the collaborative relationship between the Hebrew word "`Esh" and the Arabic word "`Aasa" and "`Essa" and defines this as "nightly watcher".
But what does the "Star" have to do with Jesus?
First and foremost, it is probably one of the most historically significant signs of the Messiah foretold.
"I shall see him, but not now: I shall behold him, but not nigh: there shall come a Star out of Jacob, and a Sceptre shall rise out of Israel..." [Numbers 24:17]
"Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him." [Matthew 2:2]
Chapter 2 of Matthew details the Magi following the North Star in search of the Jewish Messiah. It was the most well known sign of the Messiah.

Originally posted by adnanmuf
The Khazar were the largest country in the world and their numbers were huge they had huge armies, so even if 10% converted to Judaism then those are the Ashkenazim jews * 8 millions at present). Notice that the Khazar were known to the Arminian Historians in the 6 century as Khazar and Huns. Now the Huns were the cousins of The Goths according to Jordanes.
The Goths are known to be the Gog and Magog who tried to cross the Caucasian mountains to the south but King darius the Great prevented them by building a dam in Daryal Pass.
The Goths had blue eyes and blond hair , the Khazar had also blue eyes and read hair.
The Khazar word according to Etymologists is the Arabic and Armenian pronuncian of Askuz ( notice askuz to Ashkenazim) Also even the goths considered themselves Askuza ( Ascus is the same as Saka the name of the Goths by The persthian king Darius ( in Behistun Inscriptions) Saka is found in Scandia Scandza Scythia words ( Scandia is Scandivavia where Sweden is ) Scythia is the land of Sak ( the Goths north of the Caucasian mountains.
The Khazars ( huns) kicked the goths their cousins from scythia, the Goths ran into Europe and plundred it. The current Europeans are the Goths ( Caucasian Race word is taken from Caucasian mountains and also fro Gog like Gogasian mountains. The caucasian mountains were named so because the Arabs called it Gog-iHisn ( ie The Fort of Gog) because the Gog (caucasian race were beyond these mountains to the north.

So Ashkenazim jews ( majority of Jews ) in our time are descendent of Gog and Magog (Huns the cousins of Goths who lived north of the caucasian mountains)

Largest? Thats simply not true.

upload.wikimedia.org...

As you can see its much smaller than the Abbasid Caliphate, Uighur Khaganate, and the Chinese Empire.

There is simply no proof of them having large armies.

The Huns were just one group of the many groups of people that lived in Khazaria. The Goths lived there too. Armenians lived there. Various Slavs lived there. The Bulgars lived there. Lots of different tribes lived there.

Goths being Gog and Magog? Thats rich. How about the Scythians were the ones who attacked Persia not the Goths. Magog has been identified with everyone from Russians, Slavs, Irish, Celts, Scythians, Huns, Turks, Mongols, and by one guy who you mention the Goths. There is no clear cut answer on that and how is it really applicable?

Blonde hair and blue eyes? Well that just throws the whole crazy "All the Askenazim are Khazars" out the window. When was the last time you looked at a Jew? You do realize most of us have black to dark brown hair and often brown to hazel eyes.

Besides that most of the people in Khazaria were Turks. How many blonde, blue eyed Turks have you met?

Their name comes from the Turkish language meaning wanderer.

Where do you get information? It is terribly researched. The Khazars didnt kick the Goths out nor are the Huns the same people. The Huns got kicked out by the Khazars and settled in Hungary. Try picking up a real history book and stop reading Neo Nazi propaganda. Real History is far more interesting and complicated.

Originally posted by adnanmuf
There bis no such thing as turkic khazar language the Khazar were not turk ( mongoloid) they were caucasian mainly, there is no known khazar language. The language of the khazar was Yiddish. Yiddish is the most language close to Gothic language now extinct, the second most language that is similar to extinct gothic is English ( current English) the third is German.
East germanic languages include Gothic and Yiddish.
West germanic languages are german English Frensh ( all European languages including Italian and Spanish who had nothing to do with Latin other than the Alphabet.
same thing Yiddish has nothing to do with Hebrew other than the alphabet and some hebrew words.
However the New Hebrew Language is Yiddish using the Hebrew lexicon but Yiddish and German and Serbian grammer.
Let's see:
Yield is a word in English.
Suppose I use this word and add it to Arabic language ( similar to Hebrew), them if I say ( Yield Please ) in Arabic it will be (Yalled) Yeilding is (Tayleed), Yielded is ( yallad) in the new language which is a mixture of English lexicon and Arabic grammer.
Did you understand any of the above words. Neither any arab person does understand them too.

In the same token no Ancient Hebrew will be able to under stand any verse in the New Hebrew language because it is totally foreign to him, especially to add up to the problem the different pronuncian of the Smitic letters in the new Hebrew speakers who are foreign to these letters. For example there is no V in all semitic languages nor can they pronounce it. Mitzva supposed to be pronounced Miswash. ( hard s but definitely not Tz.




So what we have is a Frankeshteinic Lan

The Khazars were Turks and they used a Turkish language.

en.wikipedia.org...

You can try to deny their heritage all you want but they were Turks and any scholar who studies them knows it. They were not Caucasian and their language was not Yiddish. Yiddish is German and Hebrew.

You need to research the information yourself and stop quoting neo nazi crap. If you want anyone to take you seriously you need to stop spouting fantasy and fiction.

Originally posted by adnanmuf
And where this Messiah has to come from david come from???
Can you refer me in the bible where that is??
The Messiah could not be a descendent of david!!!
When Jesus asked the Pharaisees who's on is the messiah. they all said David.
Then Jesus refered to Psalm where David says that he saw ( the Messiah) his master sitting next to God, Jesus continued how can David call his son His Master?
Obviously the Answer is clear. The Messiah is not from david!!!
After the loss of the Northen kingdom the tribe of Juda became dominant and they wanted to take the title of Messiah to themselves like they had David ( the Scepter) in them as prophesized and achieved in Jacob prophecy.
They made themselves pharaissees ( interpreters of the Law ) even though they wer NOT Levites.
Do you understand this?
so what do you mean pharaisees had leviticus piousity or what ever, Where they Levites or were they Not Levites.
If you answered they were not from Levi then they have no authority to teach and interpret the bible to the people (According to Law itself/: the Law itself forbade non Levites to become teacher of Law) so if they become teachers of the Law then they broke the Law!! do you get it?

And stop bringing me ref from Wikipedia ( remember we are in Above top secret, and Wikipedia is a not a top secret ref it is actually politically correct full of lies) use your mind please, or disregard your mind and believe the pharaisees.

Wikipedia is not perfect, but I simply dont have the ability to scan from the various books I own. Most of the articles I have used have references and opposing viewpoints. It is far from politically correct. I have used my mind, my ability to reason and not my imagination.

Why are you so hellbent on insulting Khazar heritage and culure? Then trying to say Ashkenazim are really Turks. There is no genetic proof of that. Modern Jews genetically are closer to Arabs than any other group of people. Arabs and Jews are Semites, Turks are not Semites.

I really think you must be blinded by hate. It doesnt matter if modern Jews were descended from Martians that doesnt justify hate or aggression against anyone of anyrace. Ive already said people of different nations who convert become one with Israel and that is in the Torah. Who are you to judge and say who is a Jew and who isnt? Are you a rabbi? Are you an anthropologist? Why dont you realize anyone can be adopted into the Covenant of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob?

as to the term anti-semitic being "crying out for attention" even if its negative and thus posts w/it in it are avoided by said poster, while in some cases I would agree with you and not use the term, in this case i, nor do other people actively participating in the discussion, think i was off the mark by saying anti-semitic.

if you've been reading the discussion, you'll see two sides to one history. one is fact one is fiction. one is propaganda, one isnt. the one that is untrue, and propaganda, without me going into specifics, is is not anti-semitic in regard to this thread & more importantly, this discussion? and more important than all, the truth?

COBRA! LALALALALALA

[edit on 5/22/2007 by runetang]

When did I insulted Khazar culture?
I said they were great country and people!
I said that Ashkenazimjews are the Khazars , who is insulted the Khazars or the Ashkenazim, so I can appologize to who??!
I just sid the truth. The truth is that Khazar is the deviation pronunciation of Askuzai Arabs can not pronounce Askuz so they pronounced it innocently Khazar.
Askuzai does not mean wanderer it means a Human being.
Khazar does not mean wanderers. Gajar means wanderers ie the gitanes.

Plaese read this article on line:
Journal of Genetic Genealogy--A MOSAIC OF PEOPLE: THE JEWISH STORY AND A REASSESSMENT OF THE DNA EVIDENCE---Ellen Levy-Coffman--
www.jogg.info...
it shows jews are made up of 10 different deep ancestries, and the Ashkenazim levites have more than 50% of R1b1 ancestry marker of the Khazar and Slavs.

okay, im putting forth a possible agreement for both sides of this argument to examine. so modern day "ethnic jews" can be or may be a mixture of ethnicies such as:

Semitic(Jewish/Arab), Caucasian(Germanic/Slavic), North African/Iberian, and Hun/Turk or for lack of a better term, the area formerly known as Khazar Khaganate. Also, there are Hamitic Ethiopic Jews, so NE African can be added.

This is because the Semitic Jews during the Diaspora settled far and wide and through the centuries a fair amount of intermixing went on with these populations and the locals. However, this was not the common practice, so despite the mixing, it happened infrequently, which is why the genetic markers are so strong in many people today.

Sephardic Jews would be ones who's family settled in Iberia/Spain/North African region and may or may not have intermixed with the local populations to produce today's modern Sephardics.

Askenazim Jews would be ones who's family settled in Europe, particularly Germany and Eastern/Southeastern Europe. There had been intermixing between the peoples, and so you have Askenazi Jews that strongly resemble Slavic peoples and Ashkenazi Jews that strongly resemble Germanic people. The Khazar/Hun connection lies here. There was intermixing between some Khazars and the Eastern European Jewish populations further West as the Khazar Kingdom fell. It all eventually centered around modern day Poland and the surrounding countries which it borders. These people have a possible mix of these ethnicities.

Semitic Jews would be Jews who's family never left the Middle East and still live there or recently moved from there. Others may be descendants of Jewish families which did not leave the Middle East, despite currently living in some other country across the globe.

Ethiopic Jews are those whom intermixed with the local Ethiopian population when the Jewish peoples which fled in this direction settled here. It is said there were pre-existing Jewish communities there before the Diaspora, so perhaps these were Semitic peoples who moved into Horn of Africa at an earlier date, then sheltered the Diaspora victims. Intermixing of the peoples has led to today's Ethiopic Jews looking more Ethiopian than anything, yet often noticably different than a 'regular' Ethiopian. Genetics have confirmed the link.

So, can we lump all the world's Jews into these 4 categories please? Well, there should be five. The fifth is the convert Jew which can be of any ethnicity whatsoever because he has converted TO the Religion.

Can we agree on this?

No The contemporary jews descend from 10 different deep ancestries ( only one of them J1 10% in jews could be that of Abraham, the remaining 90% are not, the 90% are wide varieties of Europeans Mongols Hindi Greek etc) So only 10% ( just one million ) are possibly descendent fromAbraham ( at best )

You see all semites have J1 and it never change forver. It can only branch, like for example become j1a and j1b, however branching happens once every ten tousand years, and J1 started ( branched ) 10 thousand years ago, so Abraham had the J1 .
Abraham had two pairs of genes one pair has the Y chromosome with the J1 on it and the other has his mother Maternal chromosome .
His sperms are two kinds one male and one female.
The one male sperm has the set that has the Y chromosome and the J1 on it.
So if J1 goes the rest of the set goes with it, so if his son ( supposedly ) is G not J1 then that son is not really his son!

the other sperm has the Maternal set ( originally from Abraham mother) and with that chromosomes come all the 23 chromosomes ( millions of genes).
Now for Abraham or any human being if wanted to immortalize himself forever, he has only one way only, to have a son ( or several sons) and these sons keep having SONS through the ages. This will guarantee at least half of his chromosomes to continue with minor changes ( but with no changes whatsover to the Y chromosome) the Y chromosome does not recombine ever!!!
Abraham did not have daughters so his chance of preserving his (1% of his female DNA set) is Zero. Even if he had a daughter, the daughter will only transfer her MOTHER's set of the side of the Sexual X chromosome!!. So the only minute possibility for the daughter is to transfer less of !% of her father genes to her sons or daughters.
Not only Abraham did not have daughters but also Isaac and Jacob had daughters but they married to Non Israelites. The twelve sons of Jacob had one set from father and one set from 4 different women ( 2 are slaves and 2 are daughters of Laban who had only four sons )
, and then in 140 AD rabbies changed the Law of God from Patremonical descent ancestry to maternal, and from then on all males ( and females ) who were children of Jewish men ( real descendents of Abraham ) were not considered jews unless their mothers were jews. This method kicked out probably millions of men of real descent from Abraham out of Israelites.

This study I refered to shows that not only Jewish males have only 10-15 % j1 but also Jewish women!! have mostly Maternal DNA marker!!!
K and H (ie Katrina and Helena) about 60% .
So what we got here are women started from having no semitic ancestry, to transmitting just 1% of men of 90% not from Abraham. The result is that contemporary jews have the least chance of having genes of Abraham than most nations in the world.
The reason I am saying that is because Arabs ( and middle easterners have females genes that are shared with the Europeans but not with jewish men!!!).
Women were allowed to marry out side their nations through the centuries, for example European women have Haplogroup that exist in Africa too. But Jewish Europeans have female haplogroups that are only!!!v ( European) so if there was intermarriage between nations semitic women could have brought genes ( only 1% of Abraham at any case if she was real descendent of abraham) to other nations.

England have millions of J1 due to the Arab Archers brought by Hadrian Caesar after he defeated Xenopia ( Xena) of Palmyra. They even built London.
Camelot was Arab ( Kamel-Lat) ie the complete of God Lat.
.
J1 is spread all over the world by arab merchants or phoenician merchants or conquerers.

Originally posted by adnanmuf

So Ashkenazim jews ( majority of Jews ) in our time are descendent of Gog and Magog (Huns the cousins of Goths who lived north of the caucasian mountains)

I have not taken the time to read the rest of your posts........but I can tell you this........THIS COMMENT IS COMPLETE BS.

The contemporary jews descend from 10 different deep ancestries ( only one of them J1 10% in jews could be that of Abraham, the remaining 90% are not, the 90% are wide varieties of Europeans Mongols Hindi Greek etc) So only 10% ( just one million ) are possibly descendent fromAbraham ( at best )

As is the comment.........COMPLETE BS.

You might try reading the Bible.......then compare it to history. You might research the ancestry from Abraham. You might read Ezekiel 38 and 39.

On a side note.......you might research the moon god Hubal.

Originally posted by adnanmuf
You see all semites have J1 and it never change forver. It can only branch, like for example become j1a and j1b, however branching happens once every ten tousand years, and J1 started ( branched ) 10 thousand years ago, so Abraham had the J1 .

Please.........branching happens once every 10,000 years. Complete poppycock.

So how old is mankind and how many branches have occured?

Originally posted by runetang
okay, im putting forth a possible agreement for both sides of this argument to examine. so modern day "ethnic jews" can be or may be a mixture of ethnicies such as:

Semitic(Jewish/Arab), Caucasian(Germanic/Slavic), North African/Iberian, and Hun/Turk or for lack of a better term, the area formerly known as Khazar Khaganate. Also, there are Hamitic Ethiopic Jews, so NE African can be added.

This is because the Semitic Jews during the Diaspora settled far and wide and through the centuries a fair amount of intermixing went on with these populations and the locals. However, this was not the common practice, so despite the mixing, it happened infrequently, which is why the genetic markers are so strong in many people today.

Sephardic Jews would be ones who's family settled in Iberia/Spain/North African region and may or may not have intermixed with the local populations to produce today's modern Sephardics.

Askenazim Jews would be ones who's family settled in Europe, particularly Germany and Eastern/Southeastern Europe. There had been intermixing between the peoples, and so you have Askenazi Jews that strongly resemble Slavic peoples and Ashkenazi Jews that strongly resemble Germanic people. The Khazar/Hun connection lies here. There was intermixing between some Khazars and the Eastern European Jewish populations further West as the Khazar Kingdom fell. It all eventually centered around modern day Poland and the surrounding countries which it borders. These people have a possible mix of these ethnicities.

Semitic Jews would be Jews who's family never left the Middle East and still live there or recently moved from there. Others may be descendants of Jewish families which did not leave the Middle East, despite currently living in some other country across the globe.

Ethiopic Jews are those whom intermixed with the local Ethiopian population when the Jewish peoples which fled in this direction settled here. It is said there were pre-existing Jewish communities there before the Diaspora, so perhaps these were Semitic peoples who moved into Horn of Africa at an earlier date, then sheltered the Diaspora victims. Intermixing of the peoples has led to today's Ethiopic Jews looking more Ethiopian than anything, yet often noticably different than a 'regular' Ethiopian. Genetics have confirmed the link.

So, can we lump all the world's Jews into these 4 categories please? Well, there should be five. The fifth is the convert Jew which can be of any ethnicity whatsoever because he has converted TO the Religion.

Can we agree on this?

I can agree there has been intermingling where ever the Jewish community goes even if its Kenya or Shanghai China. Your also right about the genetic markers. Often convert Jews marry non convert Jews and the genetic markers carry over in their children, etc.

[edit on 24/5/07 by MikeboydUS]

Jews of the world haplogroups (deep ancestry) are:
J1--- 13%
G(Pakistani origin)---10%
H(Hindi origin) 10%
R1b(European origin)---20%
R1a1 (slav and Khazar)--25%
I( of spain)---10%
J2( of greek, Kurds, cucasians, etc)---30%

the above are the male ancestries.
The female ancestries are:
K and H ---60% ( K is katrina of slav, and H is Helena of Greek)


As for Arabs ( sons of Abraham)
Arab countries ( including all non arabs in arabic countries)---60% J1!!!!( male ancestry)

female ancestry (J jamila, L layla) and some U Ursula, and some african.

a man can only preserve his lineage through sons (only)
a female can only preserve her lineage through daughters ( daughters to daughters only).
The rabbies decision in 140 AD to transfer to female ancestry from Abraham was stupid and a big plunder.

I agree that someone has been stupid, but I don't think it was the rabbis.

Adnan, why not just come clean and tell us exactly what you're trying to get at??? (Do you know?)

First all this blather about some book written in the early 20th century by a German Jew--I can well believe a German of that era wrote it, but hardly likely to have been a Jew. Could you oblige us by giving us the full title of this remarkable book, and the name of the author as well? Plus some tips on how we might lay our hands on a copy?

It didn't mention anything about the Elders of Zion, did it??

I do wish you would pick up an elementary book on genetics.

I'm a female, and I carry 50% of my father's genes, and 50% of my mother's. That's how it works with everyone, no matter what their ancestry.

True, there are some sexual differences in genetic inheritance, but DNA tests can still identify a woman's descent from her father (or grandfather, or great-grandfather) just as easily as it can identify a son's descent.

A male ancestor's DNA doesn't suddenly "disappear" from his female descendants--you can still prove ancestry (or descent) that way!!!

Seems to me that you have proven (to your own apparent satisfaction) that modern Arabs are more "Semitic" than are modern Jews--may I take this a step further and infer that therefore modern Jews should apologize to the Arabs for stealing their homeland, pack their bags, and return to--where was it? Gog and Magog? The steppes of Asia? I'm getting confused here!!

And not only have these Jews (who are only, what? 1-30% Jewish anyway?) stolen a homeland from the Arabs (who are apparently a robust 60% Semitic--at least among the males--where does that leave female Arabs BTW? Should we deport them too?), they have also been teaching us (Christians, who thankfully don't have to worry about "bloodlines") to call Jesus dirty names all these years.

Have the Jews no shame at all?

I really, really yearn to see that book you keep quoting from.

It sounds truly remarkable, in more ways than I could ever express.

BTW--God (is that HIS real name??) forbid I should keep calling Jesus by a naughty name.

Would you please tell me how a good, clean-mouthed Christian should refer to our Lord without insulting Him as we have been doing for the past 2000 years???

[edit on 6/8/07 by abovereproach]

what I am trying to say that the majority of jews are ashkenazim, and the majority of those ashkenazim are R1 and R1b haplogroups ( of the caucasian race ( ie gog and magog: caucasian means gogasian)
and the manority of jews are amazingly are not from J1 ( like sephardim and mezrahim etc) but even the minorities are imposters like the ashkenazimm so all the jews in our times are imposters who are not the descendents of ancient israelites) because ancient israelites have to be j1 just like tyhe arabs and bedoin of israel it self ( bedoin of the negev) who are descendents of the nebetians who were cousins of edomites and israelites ( cousins have to be from the same haplogroup, no question asked)

J1 branched out 10000 years ago and the next branch is in our times but will be j1-a or j1-b etc, ie ancient israelites will never become R1a or r1b or j2 or g or h or o or p or q or c or d or b or a :
Do you understand?

you insult your lord by calling him jesus because jesus means ( may god erase his name and memory from people) so the name jesus implies two things: that the person refered to as jesus is not god, because jesus is a call to god to erase THAT man name.
secondly: jesus is a curse: asking god to erase his name and remembrance ( got the point? remembrance???? how do you remember a person is by remembering his messege, rigth?

name of Jesus is EESA ( or isa or esa or essa) which means the guiding star man.

as concening the book of the german jew in the beginning of the 20th century.
it is easy to find out the book because it is available in public libraries all over the us, just write key word jews history.
I think it was the jewish history or history of the jews, anyhow check only the books published early in 1900s and by german author.
all the info in that book: about how the jews gave the name rabbi for the first time in their history in 130 AD in Caesaria to the graduates of talmudic school, because as the writer says they were jealous of THE rabbi ( that is the one man known by that name till 130 AD and that is jesus christ