What's happening to American Morality?

And what happens to the morality of the nation...Is it not an outcome of our collective moralities?

Originally posted by rocknroll
Throw God out the proverbial window and morals will follow...
our country is becoming overrun with Secular Fundamentalism and Relativism.

As was stated before by myself and a few others: America has never been more 'morally centered' than it is now. In the days when religion and god where the lay of the land morality was scarce and could only be found if one squinted.

I am not saying that religion was the cause to the lack of morals, I am simply rebbuting your statement by saying that in a time when this nation was amazingly religious we were also amazingly immoral.

'Manifest Destiny', slavery, a notion of correctness concerning Eugenics, women being second class citizens and the list continues on. However, now, during a time in which religious individuals scream at us the messages of the moral downfall of society, we are experiencing a period of steady moral change for the better.

Most often these same individuals insist that the simple 'lack of god' in today's youth/mainstream is a moral downfall in itself. To whom? Only to those who are arrogant enough in their beliefs to insist that their way is the only moral way.

An underlying, and sometimes blatant, scorn for others based soley on the labels which are assigned to them is more immoral then any 'lack of faith' ever could be. Ironically, it is out of the mouths of the self appointed moral-police that this scorn often comes.

Originally posted by rocknroll
This is why morals are leaving....
...nobody wants to be a member of a religion that requires "true discipline".

Morality is, in your opinion, leaving our country because people do not wish to follow a religion which requires 'true discipline'? True discipline can be the cause for just as many immoral acts as moral. Unfortunately history has displayed a greater exhibit of the former then the latter.

Originally posted by rocknroll
...nobody wants to feel guilty for their wrongdoings.

Yes, because non-religious individuals are never wracked by guilt concerning their actions and religious individuals always express guilt for their wrong doings. It seems to be more blind catagorization on your part.

Close your eyes and simply assume that background and faith will guide people into the appropriate and never overlapping moral circles.

Originally posted by rocknroll
...nobody wants to be held accountable for their sins.

I suppose that all depends on the individual, the situation and the 'sin'. Once again, to simply assume that because one lacks faith means that they do not feel responsible for their wrongdoings (sin may be within the wrong choice of words here) is skimming the surface of individual morality.

Originally posted by rocknroll
So, the younger generation of this country is fervantly denying God/Jesus/Holy Spirit and the downward spiral speeds up and everybody says, "I don't understand, what happened to morals?"

Answer: They leave when you deny and mock God.

Once again, it would seem that morality is not on a spiral downwards. Rather, it seems to be quite the opposite when you pull back and observe those within our nation as a whole.

With a decline in 'god' we have not seen a decline of morals. The only 'moral decline' that I see is the continued refusal of acceptance behind the guise of religion and 'gods word'. Homosexuality and other non-issues usually tend to be behind the argument of 'no god, no morals', but these are not moral issues at all. It is an archaic fear and unwillingness to accept individuals who differ from the norm which the 'moral-police' are comfortable in.

It is hatred no matter how you paint it, and that is an immoral mind set which seems to be growing within those who stand atop their pillars and look down upon us all; throwing stones with the fervor of a self inflated righteousness and an aim honed through false superiority.

American morality is not going downhill. It took an immediate dive when capitalism arrived and has never got off the bottom since.

Originally posted by AryanWatch
Whats FSM? Mockery of Jesus? Or Mockery Of Religion?

Its really just a harmless parody.

Thanks,I'am totally relived to know that.

American Morality is not something which is independant of each one of our actions. I think the parameters of a countries moral levels can be judged by using simple measurements like - Divorce rates,Rate of Domestic voilence, No.of unwed mothers, No. of old age parents living a life of utter helpless - ness...

I think it's not hard to find this data....and you - like me - would be amazed. Have a look.

Originally posted by AryanWatch
In Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union millions of people were brought up during the middle decades of the twentieth century in a state that was thoroughly atheist and many of the households and communities within those states were also atheist. There was no collapse of morality. You were not more likely to be robbed, raped, murdered or cheated in Leningrad than you were in Manchester. Why? Why did people freed from the fear of divine retribution not suddenly start behaving like amoral animals? Because we are animals. We are political animals, animals that need to live within societies and feel respected by them.

So why are kids starving there? And living with alcoholic parents?

Have you been to Russia recently?

the problem is that there is something impeding morality in this country, it goes by the name of greed.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
the problem is that there is something impeding morality in this country, it goes by the name of greed.

That's probably true. The more people have the more they want. Unfortunately, it's having an effect on all aspects of society. It's influencing morality, families,politics, religion, et cetera.

Originally posted by AryanWatch
American Morality is not something which is independant of each one of our actions. I think the parameters of a countries moral levels can be judged by using simple measurements like - Divorce rates,Rate of Domestic voilence, No.of unwed mothers, No. of old age parents living a life of utter helpless - ness...

Once again you list non-issues in relation to morality.

Divorce rates...really? A higher number of divorce rates does not mean a moral decline. If anything it can be seen as an increase in the morals of America. We, as a country, have allowed women to more freely leave an abusive spouce. Divorce is easier to attain (for the better) and women are now taken seriously when they say "he hits me".

Unwed mothers? Another non-issue...and why would an unwed mother be a sign of declining morals?

I would be hard pressed to call domestic violance an issue of national morality in the first place. Furthermore, domestic violance is a criminal (not moral) matter which, if anything, is declining.

As for 'old age parents'...I do not really follow you there. Care to explain?

i think the biggest problem with morality in this country is that it's been hijacked by religion. people no longer can think for themselves on moral issues even though there's so much that each and every person can figure out on their own. we're turning into sheep.

Originally posted by spines


Divorce rates...really? A higher number of divorce rates does not mean a moral decline. If anything it can be seen as an increase in the morals of America. We, as a country, have allowed women to more freely leave an abusive spouce. Divorce is easier to attain (for the better) and women are now taken seriously when they say "he hits me".

True, but not when she says "He's been mentally torturing me for ten years, I barely escaped with my sanity and my health, help me because he's using the court system to continue to abuse me and is involving my children in his torture, so that they are being hurt too."

Emotional, verbal and psychological abuse are more damaging in the long term than simply being hit. And it's not accepted in court, so these women fall through the cracks and in many cases lose their children to the man who has driven them crazy for years on end, kept her from money, destroyed her self esteem, isolated her from her friends and family and turned her children against her.

I should know.

MM, that's more of a function of this culture's inability to realize that psychological damage is just as bad as physical damage... if not worse.

As for 'old age parents'...I do not really follow you there. Care to explain?

Spines - Yes Off course! I would love to explain this to you. Here it is: There are many cultures and countries in the world were parents are revered,for example, India,Nepal,Indonesia and many others. The basic assumption is that since parents are the ones who have brought us into this planet;hence they are like god to us. And hence it'sour 'Moral' duty to take care of them when they are old just as they cared for us when we were young. The concept of old age homes either doesn't exist in these countries or is at a very nascent stage because parents literally'live' with their children.In America,we had this concept earlier. But now due to a lot of reasons...we see children visiting their parents only on so called'Mother's Day' or 'Father's Day' or on weekends depending on their own convinience. I think this has a connection with our 'Moral' state. I'am not sure whether you agree with me on this but I feel very strongly that we are neglecting our parents.All they want from is our time and we ;most of the time;are short of time.

equating morality with belief in God is a slippery slope.

Organized Religion is not Tolerant of unbelievers, and actively seek to convert or destroy them. Its power structure is based in the misguided belief you need someone to intercede for you with God. Organized Religions wreak havok upon the world and always will.
What will happen when Islam and Christianity are forced to confront each other...which is more moral? If Islam overcomes Christianity are they the morally superior belief system....?
this is little different from the dark ages when men fought and the winner would be the one God favored.

Read a newspaper from 100 years ago; women were raped on the way to the general store, people were killed for the clothes on their back, children were sold in slavery rings...there is little change from what you see today. It is just broadcast 24 / 7 in living color.

American Morality is about the same it's ben for the last 150 years...you just read and hear the tragedies; the plane landing safely is not news. Footage of the plane crashing...
if it bleeds it leads.

Originally posted by Hallberg Rassy

American Morality is about the same it's ben for the last 150 years...you just read and hear the tragedies; the plane landing safely is not news. Footage of the plane crashing...
if it bleeds it leads.

I'll go you one further, morality is the same as it's always been. There are just more people so there is more crap going on, and as you said, bad news sells, human interest stories are filler.

Who defines Morality?

There is morality in the animal world - and they don't read the bible.

Some animals have extremely complex social structures and consequences for those who get out of line.

There is morality in the animal world - and they don't read the bible.
Some animals have extremely complex social structures and consequences for those who get out of line

Anne - you have a point here. I totally agree but with a few reservations. I'am mentioning them below:

1. Animals have very basic needs. Need for existence and need for survival. They do not have the higher needs( as per Maslow's Heirarchy of Needs) like social needs or self actualization needs.

2. Animals don't have the luxury of thinking capabilities like we humans have.

I think these two factors are sufficient to say that Animals are animals and we are not Animals. This brings me to my point which is - We humans need to define humanity on an individual basis. I define what I feel is Moral for me and likewise every individual does for oneself. This will automatically make our societies' Moral values.

What do you think people?

Originally posted by AryanWatch

There is morality in the animal world - and they don't read the bible.
Some animals have extremely complex social structures and consequences for those who get out of line

Anne - you have a point here. I totally agree but with a few reservations. I'am mentioning them below:

1. Animals have very basic needs. Need for existence and need for survival. They do not have the higher needs( as per Maslow's Heirarchy of Needs) like social needs or self actualization needs.

2. Animals don't have the luxury of thinking capabilities like we humans have.

I think these two factors are sufficient to say that Animals are animals and we are not Animals. This brings me to my point which is - We humans need to define humanity on an individual basis. I define what I feel is Moral for me and likewise every individual does for oneself. This will automatically make our societies' Moral values.

What do you think people?

Yes - - I agree.

IMO - religion is man made - - because man has the awareness and complexity of consciousness and memory beyond basic survival - - also complex language.

It is Man who makes religion what it is. And that is where the Animal comes out in man. It is still a fight of power - survival - jealousy - fear - greed - control - - - rather then benevolence.

I know very few god believers - - that honestly live their life as if walking in his shoes.

The ones I know that come closest are Wiccans.

The responsibility of higher consciousness is internal.

The real point of the animals is - - they have laws of behavior in a complex social group.

You don't need a god to have common sense and laws to control society.

Originally posted by AryanWatch
1. Animals have very basic needs. Need for existence and need for survival. They do not have the higher needs( as per Maslow's Heirarchy of Needs) like social needs or self actualization needs.

well, you're partially right. animals do in fact have social needs, it's inherent in their development. you can't take an animal, give it what it needs to survive while removing all interaction with its own kind, and expect it to develop properly. there was an experiment in which baby monkies were given the choice between a cold fake metal monkey mother that had milk or a warm fuzzy fake monkey that gave none, they chose the one without food and, sadly, starved to death.

2. Animals don't have the luxury of thinking capabilities like we humans have.

well, dolphins may, and we don't know about exobiology enough yet. what if we encounter alien life that is intelligent, are those beings animals?

I think these two factors are sufficient to say that Animals are animals and we are not Animals.

no, we are animals. we're just really intelligent animals.

Originally posted by AryanWatch
What do you think people?

I think you have no clue of how animals think and how it would feel to be one of those "animals", as you say.