C-130 Flight Path

One of the most curious facts of 9/11 is how the same C-130 Air National Guard plane, Golfer 6, was able to visually identify 2 of the 4 planes within seconds of the crashes, even though the crash sites were over 100 miles apart.

In order for the C-130 to identify the Flight 93 just minutes after the crash it had to have a pre-determined flight plan that took it almost directly over Shanksville. What are the odds of that?

My question is why would the C-130 be traveling on this flight path to begin with? Below is a link to a map I made in Google maps showing the flight path of the C-130 from Washington, D.C. towards Shanksville. However, the C-130's ultimate destination was Minneapolis. The red line shows the direct path the C-130 would have taken to get to Minneapolis. The blue line shows the actual direction the C-130 was traveling on 9/11.

Is it normal for a plane to have a flight plan that does not take it towards it's ultimate destination? I.e., why would the C-130 be flying over Shanksville when this path would not take it to Minneapolis?

for those of us who have no idea about the C-130 you're talking about, could you post some more information on it?

The C-130 plane is an Air National Guard plane that took off from Andrews AFB just before Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon. The controllers radioed the crew of this plane and asked them to identify Flight 77. The crew saw Flight 77 crash into the Pentagon, then the plane continued on to it's pre-determined destination of Minneapolis.

20 minutes later, air traffic controllers asked the same crew to look for Flight 93, which had crashed moments earlier in Shanksville. Remarkably, this same C-130 was almost directly over the crash site in PA where Flight 93 crashed, at almost the exact time Flight 93 crashed.

So this same C-130 crew, in the air, saw 2 of the 4 planes that crashed on 9/11 even though the crashes were 20 minutes apart and over 100 miles apart.

Everytime...

Originally posted by nick7261
Is it normal for a plane to have a flight plan that does not take it towards it's ultimate destination? I.e., why would the C-130 be flying over Shanksville when this path would not take it to Minneapolis?

No plane flies directly towards it's destination, it flies to where it's destination will be.

Your proposed route would have that C-130 arriving in Jamestown, ND not Minneapolis, MN. The earth rotates, it's spherical, and there are prevailing winds to account for, not to mention, travel occurs in three dimensions. You've drawn a straight line on a flat map.

www.pilotsweb.com...

Please review the One to Sixty Rule, the Wind Triangle, Small & Great Circles, Rhumb Line and most importantly; Great Circle Lines

[edit on 10/5/2007 by Mirthful Me]

thanks nick.... i really wasn't sure what you were talking about and I want to also agree with Mirth.... I don't think that planes fly in a straight line flight from one destination to another.

Originally posted by Mirthful Me
Everytime...

Originally posted by nick7261
Is it normal for a plane to have a flight plan that does not take it towards it's ultimate destination? I.e., why would the C-130 be flying over Shanksville when this path would not take it to Minneapolis?

No plane flies directly towards it's destination, it flies to where it's destination will be.

Your proposed route would have that C-130 arriving in Jamestown, ND not Minneapolis, MN. The earth rotates, it's spherical, and there are prevailing winds to account for, not to mention, travel occurs in three dimensions. You've drawn a straight line on a flat map.

www.pilotsweb.com...

Please review the One to Sixty Rule, the Wind Triangle, Small & Great Circles, Rhumb Line and most importantly; Great Circle Lines

[edit on 10/5/2007 by Mirthful Me]

I read the info at the site you recommended but I don't fully understand it.

Can you help me out? For the C-130 to set course for Minneapolis from Washington D.C., does it make sense to fly over Shanksville on the way?

Simple analogy...

You've tossed a football around in a back yard, right?

If you are throwing to your friend, and they are running from your left to your right, do you throw it at them, or where they will be when the ball has taken the time to travel the distance?

If you throw it at them, the ball will land behind them, they will have to chase it, and probably think you are lame. If you lead them, they will catch the ball (if they themselves don't suck) and all will be right with the world.

The earth may seem stationary to us on the ground, but in reality, it's moving pretty fast:

imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov...

You think air navigation is tough, try ballistic computations:

www.eugeneleeslover.com...

Artillery is the mathematician's fine art.

Thanks!

I understand the theory, but not the specifics.

For a flight from D.C. to Minnesota is it expected that the course would go over Shanksville? I'm guessing that since the earth rotates west to east the course over Shanksville seems reasonable. Is this correct?

Yes...

It might be reasonable, depending on a host of other factors, as where the jet stream is, specific weather patterns (you may have to fly around a storm), FIR restrictions, your aircraft's capability as far as cruising speed and altitude... The list goes on and on.

Okay, I'm curious what was the original mission to Minneapolis they took off for? Was it to scope out the Pgon and then ??? Or was it routine but changed right off to check the Pgon, then a slight detour while they're at the scoping thing, another plane is coming in from the west we just saw on radar, go and see what's up with... whoa! There it is, it just crashed... There may be more than coincidence, with the unfolding attack to give its (oddly) attack-paralleling journey.
That's the siple explanation that comes to mind but I don't know.

Originally posted by nick7261


The C-130 plane is an Air National Guard plane that took off from Andrews AFB just before Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon.

This is the most curious thing about this flight. Why was it able to take off when ALL other craft (excluding any F-15's for interception) were grounded? What was so special about this C-120 that "they" allowed it to take off after both towers have been hit?

Originally posted by Caustic Logic
Okay, I'm curious what was the original mission to Minneapolis they took off for? Was it to scope out the Pgon and then ??? Or was it routine but changed right off to check the Pgon, then a slight detour while they're at the scoping thing, another plane is coming in from the west we just saw on radar, go and see what's up with... whoa! There it is, it just crashed... There may be more than coincidence, with the unfolding attack to give its (oddly) attack-paralleling journey.
That's the siple explanation that comes to mind but I don't know.

According to the official story, they had dropped stuff off in the Carribean, and were returning to their home base in Minneapolis. They took off from Andrews about 9:30, almost at the same time the controllers spotted Flight 77 screaming in from the west.

The controllers then asked the C-130 if they could ID 77. The pilot said that 77 was filling up his wind screen. Then the pilot said that 77 seemed to have crashed into the Pentagon. At this point ATC told the pilot to continue on with his trip to Minnesota.

There have also been conflicting reports about what the pilot said. The story I just read today talked about another crew member looking down and to the right watching 77 coming in for what he thought was a landing. There were also reports that ATC asked the C-130 to follow 77.

BTW, there's apparently a version of the C-130 with electronic jamming equipment that theoretically could have taken a plane out of the air without firing a shot. This might have been a more palatable, politcally correct option re Flight 93 as opposed to a shoot down.

Or maybe it's just a real coincidence that the C-130 happened to be in the exact location, at almost the precise time when 2 of the 4 planes crashed on 9/11. IMHO, it's a little hard to swallow that no fighters were within a hundred miles of 93 or 77 but a C-130, based on pure luck, happened to be on top of both these planes.

Can you post your source about this event. Just curious about it.

Originally posted by Griff

Originally posted by nick7261


The C-130 plane is an Air National Guard plane that took off from Andrews AFB just before Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon.

This is the most curious thing about this flight. Why was it able to take off when ALL other craft (excluding any F-15's for interception) were grounded? What was so special about this C-120 that "they" allowed it to take off after both towers have been hit?

I was watching the discovery channel (i think if not tlc) where this guy got bit by a poisonous snake on 9-11 (forgot which one) where he had to get anitvenom immediately and all planes were grounded, so I believe the hospital made some calls and finally got the antivenom through the air so I guess some planes were allowed to fly




But I do agree that it was odd that it was allowed to fly right after the first few attacks and no one knew what was happening

[edit on 10-5-2007 by racerzeke]

Originally posted by racerzeke

But I do agree that it was odd that it was allowed to fly right after the first few attacks and no one knew what was happening

When was the order that all airspace is to be shutdown and that all aircraft are to land to the nearest runway?

[edit on 10-5-2007 by deltaboy]

I remember watching the Howard Stern 9-11 youtube video, and right after the 2nd plane hit every airport in the USA was shutdown

Just after 9:38 a.m.



Here

Edit to add: I guess the question now would be, when did the C-130 take off?

[edit on 10-5-2007 by Valdimer]

So this same C-130 crew, in the air, saw 2 of the 4 planes that crashed on 9/11 even though the crashes were 20 minutes apart and over 100 miles apart.


That would be probably 300mph or so, which is possible for c130


9:37 pentagon was hit and at 9:40 airports were shutdown
www.911timeline.net...

[edit on 10-5-2007 by racerzeke]

Originally posted by deltaboy

When was the order that all airspace is to be shutdown and that all aircraft are to land to the nearest runway?

[edit on 10-5-2007 by deltaboy]

The 9/11 Commission" Sliney “ordered all FAA facilities to instruct all aircraft to land at the nearest airport” at exactly 9:42, an hour and twenty minutes after the first hijacking was known of.
Thr ground-stop on takeoffs however had been ordered at 9:25.

I agree with CL.

It is possible for the same C-130 to spot it 100 nm is not that far at 250 kts. It is only 24 minutes flight time. After it had seen Flight 77, it could have been instructed or even diverted to look out for other hijacked aircraft. If Flight 93 was reported to it, it could have flown over to look.

Aircraft can fly direct to somewhere. Commercial aircraft rarely do, but military or VFR aircraft could quite easily.

[edit on 10-5-2007 by mirageofdeceit]