Vegan Couple Sentenced To Life For Killing Baby

Good riddance to bad garbage. These two should be fed soy milk and apple juice for the duration of their prison sentence. That would be a good way to save tax dollars AND teach them a lesson. Stupid, stupid people...

Well, I would assume that you could bring up a baby vegan done correctly, but these people either didn't care or are incredibly stupid. They can blame the health system, but they should be their babies first line of aid. So they can't afford a dietition?

First google result for "vegan baby": "It is quite safe to bring up your baby as a vegan, with no animal foods at all, as long as you make sure that plenty of nutrient-rich foods are included. Vegan babies need good sources of calcium, vitamin B12, vitamin D and protein."

Could they not afford to go to a library and use the internet? Or ask someone who wasn't so incredibly moronic?

Jesus. They suck.

However, I'm not sure that locking them away at the expense of tax payers is the best thing to do... Forced sterilisation for the both of them, and a crap load of community service or something...

Unless of course they killed it on purpose, which doesn't seem to be the case.

I'd never thought before about vegan mothers not breast feeding - I suppose they count themselves as animals then . Surely it's morally okay if it's consentual? Just something like that animals can't consent to stuff like that, just like a young person can't consent to sex.. hmmm

[edit on 9-5-2007 by x4nder]

[edit on 9-5-2007 by x4nder]

I love the avalanche of crap that gets poured onto the few people who do more than watch Al Gore films & post over-rated opinion on internet forums. Why do you think people go vegan? Because they have a vicious cruelty streak? LOL vegans are much more compassionate and caring people than you. They are actually DOING something meaningful that reduces suffering in the world, and all you can do is criticize from the basement.

Imagine for a second how you appear in the eyes of a vegan, when you think its macho to chomp into veal, lamb, and blood-soaked steaks with zero regard to the life of the beings you're guzzling. You call this civilisation!

Anyone throwing stones at this should take a good look at your own lifestyle & beliefs, because there's someone out there ready to point the finger right back at you. WTF do you think this baby should've been eating steak? Maybe the mother couldn't lactate, it's non uncommon at all.

Regardless, I doubt any of you know the details of the case so I advise to stfu, these folks have lost their child and been sentenced to jail (oh yeah and we have a flawless justice system right?). Plenty of non vegan babies die every day, this case is being sensationalised and all I'm seeing here is hypocritical bigotry. We've heard all the arguments a thousand times, so how about leave vegans in peace.

As for myself, I was talking about intelligence and negligence, not vegan bashing...

I was suprised by some of the posts here though..

Here's a sharp stick in the Vegan moral superiorty balloon: what is the most destructive environmental practice that man currently engages in? Human Agriculture which cruelly and slowly starves wild animals by denying them billions of hectares of their natural habitat. Every thing that we so called civilized human beings eat or drink, vegan or omnivore effects the natural world around us. To claim that veganism is somehow more civilized is ignoring the effects that human agriculture has had on thousands of species throughout it thousands of years of practice. Far more land worldwide is set aside for cereal crops than any other human activity.

We humans who choose to be omnivorous aren't any better but we're not any worse either.

I saw a link on CNN website

"Dad who starved baby complains about jail food"

I don't have broadband so I can't watch the video anytime soon. I hope this isn't the same man as in this thread.

ok soo there are a few people on here who dont understand some things about nutrition.
we do not need cows milk at all.
if is illogical to think a humen would need milk from another animal .
Cows Milk
we do not need meat of any kind.
this is fact ..

if farming was dont right we would not be stealing land from animals ..
the only reason there is a excess of animals any way at least farm animals
is so you all can kill them and eat there meat any way ..
leave the animals alone and there wouldnt be as much pigs cows chickens cooped up
in the factory farms.

Originally posted by crgintx
Here's a sharp stick in the Vegan moral superiorty balloon: what is the most destructive environmental practice that man currently engages in?

Living. But I guess we'd like to continue doing that.

Human Agriculture which cruelly and slowly starves wild animals by denying them billions of hectares of their natural habitat.

Cruelly to what?! Um....I don't think there's 'vegan farms' anywhere. We (vegans) eat from the same place that grows your vegetables (though most of us vegans eat organic). Now I'm no doctor, but I'm pretty sure you can't live on just meat alone. And agriculture farming is much less land/energy abusive as raising livestock. In fact, most of our grains goes to FEEDING LIVESTOCK. Maybe that's why there's so much agriculture.

"If all the grain currently fed to livestock in the United States were consumed directly by people, the number of people who could be fed would be nearly 800 million," David Pimentel, professor of ecology in Cornell University's College of Agriculture and Life Sciences, reported at the July 24-26 meeting of the Canadian Society of Animal Science in Montreal. Or, if those grains were exported, it would boost the U.S. trade balance by $80 billion a year, Pimentel estimated.

With only grass-fed livestock, individual Americans would still get more than the recommended daily allowance (RDA) of meat and dairy protein, according to Pimentel's report, "Livestock Production: Energy Inputs and the Environment."

www.news.cornell.edu...

Every thing that we so called civilized human beings eat or drink, vegan or omnivore effects the natural world around us.

Veganism effects much less. I can assure you that.

To claim that veganism is somehow more civilized

No on e is saying it is.

is ignoring the effects that human agriculture has had on thousands of species throughout it thousands of years of practice.

Plants grow everywhere, what difference does it make if it's concentrated in a small area? None.

Far more land worldwide is set aside for cereal crops than any other human activity.

To feed livestock.

Some facts you've obviously been missing:

EIGHT MEATY FACTS ABOUT ANIMAL FOOD

From "Livestock Production: Energy Inputs and the Environment"

By David Pimentel

-- WHERE'S THE GRAIN? The 7 billion livestock animals in the United States consume five times as much grain as is consumed directly by the entire American population.

-- HERBIVORES ON THE HOOF. Each year an estimated 41 million tons of plant protein is fed to U.S. livestock to produce an estimated 7 million tons of animal protein for human consumption. About 26 million tons of the livestock feed comes from grains and 15 million tons from forage crops. For every kilogram of high-quality animal protein produced, livestock are fed nearly 6 kg of plant protein.

-- FOSSIL FUEL TO FOOD FUEL. On average, animal protein production in the U.S. requires 28 kilocalories (kcal) for every kcal of protein produced for human consumption. Beef and lamb are the most costly, in terms of fossil fuel energy input to protein output at 54:1 and 50:1, respectively. Turkey and chicken meat production are the most efficient (13:1 and 4:1, respectively). Grain production, on average, requires 3.3 kcal of fossil fuel for every kcal of protein produced. The U.S. now imports about 54 percent of its oil; by the year 2015, that import figure is expected to rise to 100 percent.

-- THIRSTY PRODUCTION SYSTEMS. U.S. agriculture accounts for 87 percent of all the fresh water consumed each year. Livestock directly use only 1.3 percent of that water. But when the water required for forage and grain production is included, livestock's water usage rises dramatically. Every kilogram of beef produced takes 100,000 liters of water. Some 900 liters of water go into producing a kilogram of wheat. Potatoes are even less "thirsty," at 500 liters per kilogram.

-- HOME ON THE RANGE. More than 302 million hectares of land are devoted to producing feed for the U.S. livestock population -- about 272 million hectares in pasture and about 30 million hectares for cultivated feed grains.

-- DISAPPEARING SOIL. About 90 percent of U.S. cropland is losing soil -- to wind and water erosion -- at 13 times above the sustainable rate. Soil loss is most severe in some of the richest farming areas; Iowa loses topsoil at 30 times the rate of soil formation. Iowa has lost one-half its topsoil in only 150 years of farming -- soil that took thousands of years to form.

-- PLENTY OF PROTEIN: Nearly 7 million tons (metric) of animal protein is produced annually in the U.S. -- enough to supply every American man, woman and child with 75 grams of animal protein a day. With the addition of 34 grams of available plant protein, a total of 109 grams of protein is available per capita. The RDA (recommended daily allowance) per adult per day is 56 grams of protein for a mixed diet.

-- OUT TO PASTURE. If all the U.S. grain now fed to livestock were exported and if cattlemen switched to grass-fed production systems, less beef would be available and animal protein in the average American diet would drop from 75 grams to 29 grams per day. That, plus current levels of plant-protein consumption, would still yield more than the RDA for protein.

www.news.cornell.edu...

We humans who choose to be omnivorous aren't any better but we're not any worse either.

No one is saying you are. You're just getting all hoity-toity, and spouting your opinions as if they were facts. Veganism didn't kill the baby, ignorant parents leading to its malnutrition did.

Vegan's can also breastfeed. It's not against the 'rules' (as if there's even a rulebook, hehe) to breast feed the same species. These parents were either too stupid to think of it like that, or the baby just wouldn't take the teet. I know I wouldn't (who knows why babies do anything. Though my mom ate horribly, that's probably why. She's a hearty meat eater with a horrendous love for cheese) when I was a baby, so I was given a formula of soymilk, and I survived. So even that's not why the baby died. It either had a problem, or they weren't putting the correct nutrients into the formula.

Vegans are mentally retarded.

Big surprise they killed their kid.

Probably a good thing in the end. Hopefully if they get out of prison they won't have another and their defective genes will die with them.

Bring on the flames.

Babies need different things than adults and larger children do - babies and toddlers need more fats and proteins, because they're growing rapidly.

Obviously the diet these parents were giving was not enough, and they were criminally negligent - I'm sorry, but even if you can't afford a nutritionist, internet access, a visit to the library, a visit to a regular doctor, when you see your child STARVING TO DEATH and not growing, there is no excuse for not taking it to the emergency room, or hell, go buy a can of formula. Worry about your principles later, baby first, surely?

I'll be perfectly up front here, I eat meat, always have, wouldn't think of doing otherwise.

I respect vegans and their views, and I damn well expect that they will respect mine. We obviously have different views on a lot, but we each do our own thing and must respect each other.

That being said, the fault here is not with any group of people but with the parents themselves. I can not believe the absolute nerve that it takes to state that we are supposed to feel bad for them and that it's wrong that they were convicted. Their child weighed 3 and a half pounds. That is not something that can go unnoticed. Why did their child weigh so little? Well, in babies nutrition is the key.

I respect the parents decision to become vegan. They have strong beliefs and that's nice, however if you're going to decide to make your infant child hold to those beliefs you have to do so in a qualified fashion. Consult a nutritionist, go to a doctor. When you notice something is wrong go to a hospital. This is the USA, a hospital is not allowed to refuse care to a patient, regardless of circumstances. They should have walked in with the baby (maybe before the weight was down to that of a bag of chips) and said "We have an alternative lifestyle and it doesn't seem to be agreeing with our baby, please help us."

They did not. They apparently did nothing. We can debate what babies "should eat" until we're blue in the face, that is irrelevant here. Whatever THIS baby was eating, it either wasn't enough or wasn't doing what it was supposed to.

Negligent parenting. What else is there to say?

Originally posted by apc
Vegans are mentally retarded.

Big surprise they killed their kid.

Probably a good thing in the end. Hopefully if they get out of prison they won't have another and their defective genes will die with them.

Bring on the flames.

Aside from your apparent age an IQ (both low), you also have some social disorders. I suggest you see a therapist.

Originally posted by apc
Vegans are mentally retarded.

OK: up there, that's the quote and down there, that's all me.

(Edit)

Don't hold back now!

I am pretty sure that the percentage of mentally retarded vegans is lower than the percentage of mentally reatarded omnivore/regular joes but the fact remains there are a heck of a lot of mentally retarded fudgers out there.

There will come a time when the free choice of having kids will be taken away and those who do not have the means or the intelligence to raise healthy, law abiding children will no longer be allowed to do so.

If this type of senceless death was to begin to become more common place I for one would have to say make it sooner rather than later.

NWO - Bring it on

[edit on 9-5-2007 by ChiKeyMonKey]

Originally posted by iori_komei

...This really was'nt completely there fault, and a Vegan diet actually is'nt bad for the baby,
what was wrong is that they could'nt get a nutritionist to talk to them, ...

A lot of dieticians disagree with that. Most professional dieticians (RDs or Registered Dieticians), even the staunchly vegan ones, agree that children under the age of six years should not be on a true vegan diet; plant sources of iron, zinc and protein are just insufficient for young bodies growing that fast, and children's taste buds are still young so many vegetables taste bad and the kids do not eat them. After six years or so phasing in to a vegan diet may be OK (depending on the child). Under 6 months the best food is mother's milk.

A simple google search brought me to this article at the Vegan Society

I'll post the relevant clipping here.

Up to the age of four to six months, the diets of many infants of vegan and of non-vegan parents are identical. The perfect food for the young infant is breast milk and supplementary foods should not be introduced until after four to six months of age. Breast-fed infants of well nourished vegan women tend to grow and develop normally(11). The infant receives many benefits from breast feeding, including some immune system enhancement, protection against infection, and reduced risk of allergies(12). Moreover, as human breast milk is the natural food for baby humans it also probably contains substances needed by growing infants which are not even known to be essential and are not included in infant formulas. Meanwhile, nursing mothers derive benefits such as reduced risk of premenopausal breast cancer, release of stress-relieving hormones and, for some, sheer convenience(12). For all these reasons, we strongly encourage breast feeding.

The infant in this case was 6 weeks old.

Again, negligent parenting.

I do feel this is a bit strange... at the age of 6 weeks, a baby wouldn't even be ready for solid food. Babies are fed on bottle milk if the breast isnt happening. Apple juice and water is also fine. Soy Baby Formula's are readily available from a pharmacy and are accredited to use if the baby is lactose intolerant.

I might google to find out a little more here... both of my children were breast and bottle fed and introduced solids around two months of age.

If this is a case of neglect, then perhaps there it is based on other reasons...unless they were feeding the child soy milk you buy from the supermarket which is not designed for babies.

The way the story was presented on CNN they were using regular supermarket variety soymilk... not formula.

At least that's the image they showed at least twice on the story I saw.

I also just noticed the weight of the baby...smaller than both of my kids birthweight... Both my kids were 7 pounds at birth so that for me is a bit of an eye opener. At six weeks of age being 3 pounds, something was very wrong. I am just googling my legal databases to see if I can get the transcript up, if I access it, I will post.

And the baby was born at home so no idea what the baby's birth weight was.

cheers

Parent neglect. Vegan or no Vegan.

PS if humans only ate plants and vegetables we would still be in trees

Originally posted by xEphon
Parent neglect. Vegan or no Vegan.

PS if humans only ate plants and vegetables we would still be in trees

Misconception. Protein promotes muscle and brain growth, yes, but protein is protein (and legumes have a FAR higher concentration than meat). It just so happens that our primate ancestors were either not smart enough to harvest, or the land they were in did not support high protein plants. I believe it's both sides here. After all, they started walking after the rain forests were turning into savannas in Africa, not living it up in a tropical place with rich soil. It was mainly fruits, bugs, and what ever small rodents they could capture (until they evolved into the 'cave man' so to speak). But that's for a different debate.

But yes. I can't believe these idiot parents. Something tells me they probably aren't very healthy themselves, and they probably eat absolutely nothing containing nourishment. But, as said before, that's happening everywhere now, since most foods come pre-packaged, and nothing is taught at school about nutrition.