inside look at royal navys new sub (video and pics)

Originally posted by orangetom1999
I counted 11 submarines between the dry docks and the piers. Thats alot of boats in one harbor. This does not include those out on patrols. Compared to the 5 boats just south of me in Norfolk, Virginia this means that whatever they are doing in the Pacific they are very very busy.

It's part of the Pentagon's effort to shift and relocate military systems and focus from the North Atlantic to the Pacific. The US has built new air bases, harbors, docs and facilities in the region to bolster our forces in and around the Pacific rim. Given the rising strength of China, India and to a certain extent Russia the US wants to make sure it is prepared for that inevitable confrontation. During the Cold War our SSN force was split about ~40/60 between the Pacific and Atlantic, now that figure has been reversed, the same is being done to our surface fleet as well. If you look, the actions, deployments and changes the USAF has made reflect that of the Navy's. We are putting more assets (firepower) and paying closer attention to the Pacific region than we have previously done...

[edit on 9-5-2007 by WestPoint23]

Originally posted by orangetom1999

The completed boats are slowly moved by crawler units working together ...outside of these builidings to a platten and then finally when ready lowered intot the water by a floating drydock type arrangement.

Barrow has one of the largest shipyards in Britain, and BAE's Devonshire Dock Hall has dominated the Barrow skyline for over 20 years. At 51m/ 167ft, it is the tallest building in the county of Cumbria, and at a length of 268m/ 879ft it is longer than Europe's tallest building is tall (Triumph-Palace in Moscow, Russia - 264m/ 866ft). Devonshire Dock Hall is the largest shipbuilding hall/ undercover shipbuilding site in Europe at 25,000 sq/m /269,097 sq/ft.

It actually uses what was until recently the largest shiplift in the world to lower the subs rather than a floating drydock, still a very impressive place. A guy i went to uni with has his office in a shed on top of HMS Ambush (working on reactor shilding).

PaperplaneUK,

Good to see your post again, It has been awhile.

You know ....now that I think about it..I believe that is a similar arrangement to how Electric Boat in Groton, Connecticut uses to lower thier boats into the water. I never thought of it actually being a ship lift but now that you mention it ..it is not actually a true floating drydock.

I reckon I have been around this floating drydock and other drydocks for so long I just assumed all were drydock arrangements. Thanks for clarifying this for me.

YOu know...I have been getting accustomed to Google Earth. I'm going to check out that Barrows arrangements after looking it up on the web. That is if google earth will magnify that much. Some areas dont allow this.
I am afraid I tried without success to bring in the view from Google Earth of the shipyard at Barrow in Furnace. No success. No magnification allowed beyond a certain point. I could however recognize the row of buildings which are the very large sheds where the ships are built in controlled buildings before beign launched or lowered into the water. Nice buildings ..very nice.


By the way..the ship on which I am working just came out of dock and was tied up at a pier. To my surprise when I was looking out one of the hanger bays I saw another ship tied up at a pier down river. I recognized it as the NS Savannah. As I recall it was the first Nuclear Powered Cargo or merchant vessle built by the United States. It has of course long since been defueled or deactivated and has spent a number of years up this river in a mothball fleet. I am hoping this weekend to get a photograph of her for my private files.
She is tied up at the same piers where the SS United States was tied up before being shipped overseas. Hence my thinking I'd better get a photo while I still can.

The NS Savannah to my knowlege was more of a showpiece to demonstrate the feasability of Nuclear power for surface ships. I dont think she ever made a profit much over operating expenses. I also believe she was the only one built by this country. Other countrys built a couple more but I dont think they either were much of a commercial success.

Nuclear ships ..to remain pierside for any length of time require special pier facilitys not available in most harbors. Any delay in taking on cargo and getting back out to sea could be a problem for them. Same with docking and undocking. Special hookups and specially trained people to do so. I can see why this never caught on. Also Cargo handling has changed significantly since those days of the early 1960s.

Thanks for your post,
Good to read your posts again,
Orangetom

[edit on 12-5-2007 by orangetom1999]

Westy, I have been watching the change of stance by your military, re the Pacific region but, and it is a big but, do you [US] really expect to be in a shooting war with the PRC any time soon?

Fritz,

The shooting war betweent the west and the PRC will take place when the Chinese decide to go it alone and reneg on the loans granted by the western or international banks to bring China into the 20th/21st century.

If the Chinese decide to reneg on the loans the repo man will be called in to repossess China or renogitiate the loans.

This is exactlly the pattern of operations done to both Germany and Japan following WW2. The nations were repossessed and handed over to new investors to rebuild in the new image for profit with some of the best labor in the world. Skilled highly diciplined labor willing to work for pennys on the dollar after the ground or new urban renewal had taken place. This ground being prepared for the new investment by warfare.

Remember what happened particularly with the Japanese!! This nation following the Boxer Rebellion was selected to be the police force in the Orient ,locally, for the foreign investors taking advantage of China and the rest of the orient. The Occidentals.

Japan was armed with loans and technology allowing her to bring her nation into the 20th Century. Japan which had only a brown water merchant fleet was suddenly taught how to build Aircraft Carriers and submarines..airplanes too. Battleships, Cruisers...ocean going merchant ships. Included with this was the abilitiy to navigate on the open seas...a huge quantum leap when most nations still could not do this over large bodies of water but only follow the coast lines. Japan wound up with a navy for which most of the world did not even know existed until Dec.7,1941
Japan did not accomplish this on her own..but with massive influxes of foreign capital and technology. We in effect builit and armed our own enemy.

China is following the same direction and script as was the case with Germany and Japan. The only question in my mind is when will China turn on her handlers and go independent. When will China reneg on the loans.

This is what the military is for ...to keep tabs on this progress both in Chinas military and her industrys to determine when China will turn on her Owners/investors. REmember something about this type of investor/investment company...they are loyal to a country..they are loyal to their investments. This is not what you will ever learn in public school. Most private schools either.

This is the real history of this world. Not the sugar coating taught in most of our public institutions which trys to pass for history.

When a nation renegs on the loans the repo man must be called in to renegotiate the loan or reposess the nation. WW1&WW2 were repos of nations to a debt structure...bankers. Limiting economic competition...ie..independents. No independents allowed in this market.

You know Fritz..getting accustomed to Google Earth I reasoned to myself that somewhere in Australia is the perfect place to locate a listening post to peek in on Asia. It would have to be in a more remote location/part of Australia and at the same time suitable for the task. I looked on the very northwestern coast of Australia to a point called Exmouth. There it was in the very northern corner of the penensula. It looks like a Sam missle set up from great heights. But when you zoom in it is obviously a phased antenna field with very tall towers situated in a star like pattern. You can tell by the shadows cast by the tall antenna towers. Very noticable. Also to the south of this on the eastern side of this penensula is a airfield complete with hardstands in the European fashion. THese hardstands have thier own hangers to protect aircraft from the harsh sun. Obviously not a comercial site. This is close to the town of Leamonth. Quite noticable from the overheads. I understand the reason for the airfield..to buy time in case of an attack. The antenna farm is obvoiusly a long wave listening post.

The only question in my mind is who actually runs the post ...The Aussies or us?? No doubt we can do alot with satellites and submarnes but listening posts have not gone out of style. I have no doubt that they have satellite uplinks and downlinks but this does not explain the long wave stuff.

Nevertheless it is in precisely the correct location to do this kind of work monitoring Asia. As a licensed Ham I am very well aware that water makes for a very good parabolic reflector with little losses over long distances...both transmit and receive modes.

Fritz, I have walked this earth long eough to know that we particularly as Americans ...spy on our friends as well as our enemies. We spy on our own people too. I am certain that it is no different concering our Cousins on the other side of the Pond.
At certain levels we share certain informations. But I dont think we share everything. It is just the nature of this buisness.
I have no doubt that it is the same with whoever is in power in the UK. They spy on thier friends as well as their enemys. And thier own people too!

Thanks,
Orangetom

orange:

more info on the Devonshire dock hall (aka, the shed!)

www.baesystems.com...

Have been lurking for a while, but your right havent posted in ages.

PaperplaneUK,

THanks for the link to the site on Devonshire Dock Hall. Yes...that is pretty much the arrangement that they have up at Electric Boat in Groton, Conn.

Here at Newport News our building is called the MOF or Modular Outfitting Facility. Many of us still call it the Shed.

Looking at the statistics and figures on your link, this facility is well organized and equiped for this type of work.

Thanks again for the link,
Orangetom

So OrangeTom about China you think or believe that its only a matter of time before they "go-it-alone" or do you think they will play ball like the USSR did? When nations go rogue with as much power as china will have they rarely go it alone...who would join them? What if China wins? What do you think of the "weapons stealing" aka west giving tech to china to build them up? If there is a full blown war akin to ww1 & ww2, could the shipyard start pumping out ships or are they strapped if we lose any it will take years to replace it? That cant be good in a long war.....the us turn into germany with few but great materials. I hope it never happens but the powers that be want to end the era of super/mega powers thus pitting the US, China and Russia...who is rebuilding like a fiend.

Orange your wrong about china - if they wanted to make any sort of move they would dump the dollar reserves they are holding - which amounts to several trillion dollars , which would of course crash the USD and thus the US economy - overnight teh dollar would become worthless around the world , why do you think tehy are trying for teh amero (or what ever its called)?

And what prey tell would happen to the world economy if the USD and US economy "crashed"? Domino effect anyone... Still, it would not effect the US' ability to wage war.

not as much as you think - most countries have moved away from the dollar as they`re main trading currency , of course they get dollars and work in dollars when trading with the us or those countries that want to trade in that currency.

but world economy crash? nah not a chance.


ability to wage war? yes it does actually - you can fight a war on several fronts - entropy based warfare anyone.

when a soldier hears that at home fuel is massively priced , or his children are eating scraps as potatoes are $100 a bag - he won`t want to fight but feed his family.


or that the wages they have won`t buy a bottle of water in a foreign port.


and where does the raw materials come from to build the tanks and bombs and guns? most has to be bought - but how when the currency is worthless.?


[edit on 15/5/07 by Harlequin]

I'm not an economist but I seriously doubt the government would hesitate to start massively subsidizing industry when it's very existence is at stake. Still, any such deliberate move would be viewed as an attack, an unconventional one of course, but an attack nonetheless. I'm sure we can do a fair amount of damage in return, whether conventional or not. MAD comes to mind again, may sound unrealistic but who knows...

with what money?

anyway

www.abovetopsecret.com...

theres a thread on it allready

Camilla, Duchess of Cornwall, performed the naming ceremony for HMS Astute on 8th June 2007.



Camilla inspects the boat


HMS Astute on the slip


Mock up of cruise missile inside HMS Astute

The boat is to be lowered into the water 9th June 2007.

It will doubtless be a competent boat, but as with almost every major British military development initiative (the most shameless being ASRAAM) they are waaaaaayyyyy behind schedule, 4 years to be precise, and 1 billion pounds over budget. They ultimately had to bring in experts from the Electric Boat Division in the US to put things back on track.

Remember also that while the boat is due to be launched this week, it will not be in service until 2009, a date that was supposed to be 2005 when the contract was signed.

Not exactly impressive.

Retseh,

I didnt know they were that far behind. THat explains alot of dots I was unable to connect in this buisness.
Same thing happening here with the Virginia Class Boats but not as bad as in the UK. I surmise that with the time lapsed between the last series of boats turned out a this yard they lost alot of skilled people with the know how and backbone to do this kind of work. This is what happened here. Many quit, retired, passed away...the normal manpower attrition, some went to other departments et al. Nevertheless there was a big shift and loss of many critical skills necessitating a learning curve for the new projects or class of boats.
Bean counters have a difficult time understanding this concept. Many are actually dumb enough to think you can build this kind of ship with people just off the street. You can build a ship only on computer. Things happen just with a push of a button. Astonishing.!!

Harlequen,

It has been my belief that the USA has not been running its affairs both domestic as well as foreign for some years now going back before WW1. We are the boot lackys for someone elses profits. When we are told we lick boots. Prior to WW1 this position was held by the La Grande Armee of France. Somewhere in WW1 the French defaulted on this task and lost their place in the world stage.
It is my belief that the Chinese are under the same authority as the USA. They appear to be a soverign nation but are under the authority of someone stronger and more powerful than they. Just like our government here in the USA.

This thesis was born out for me..confirmed when Margaret Thatcher came to the Aspen Institute in Colorado to have a meeting with Bush the Senior. Bush Senior went into that meeting a dove and came out a hawk. Until that meeting nothing was going to be done about Iraq invading Kuwait in the early 1990s. Maggie gave olde George his marching orders and he replied "Yes Margaret."
Dont misunderstand me here. Neither is Margaret Thatcher is operating independently here but also part of the controlled group as is every PM.

Someone here just seems to be able to call in markers on both the USA and the UK at will ..also other nations..Russia too. China too.

I suspect that there is alot of very covered up history here.

China is being allowed into this club slowly. China would like some respect but it is not forthcoming at the speed and expedience which they would like.
Austraulia is a newcomer in this club rising in importance by geography as the number of western bases in the Pacific Rim is shortened. Translate his statement as meaning that more and more investments are entering Austraulia as she becomes more important to investments in China.
Same could be said for India. Pay close attention to this one.

Oh by the way..nice pictures of the torpedo room on the Astute class showing the handling equipment in the torpedo room. I would like to see more if they become available. My thanks to the poster of these pics.

Thanks to all for their posts,
Orangetom

[edit on 9-6-2007 by orangetom1999]

I have just read today's Daily Mail. The article claims that the Astute can hear a ship leaving New York whilst it sits silently in the English Channel - over 3,000 miles away;

The nuclear reactor and propulsion plant has a life of 25 years - and can propell the sub at speeds in excess of 20 knots;

The ultra-quiet screw apparently makes less noise than a baby dolphin;

HMS Astute has a desilination plant and an oxygen scrubbing plant that gives fresh water and air respectively for at long as the boat is at sea;

The only problem is it's human crew. They need replacing every 90 days.

Still, the Astute is Probably the best Boat in the world!

Some more photos of the boat in preparation for the ceremony & the ceremony itself.













[edit on 9-6-2007 by Niall197]

Thanks Nail,

Much better and more detailed photos this time of the hull structure. Most obvious is that this boat has a propulsor. I was curious if this was so or not. There appears to be a pipe leading from a point on the starbord side aft at the taper of the hull back past the propulsor. A strut is welded to the hull for bracing. This appears to be the tube which feeds out the towed sonar array. THe pipe allows this to clear the propulsor.

Also of intrest to me is the side or flank sonar blisters. I noticed this in the previos photos on one of the several Astute threads posed here on the weapons section. Very similar to the sonar arrangement on the Virginia Class boats. This would account for the sensitivity of this category of electronics.
I'd like to see the periscope arrangements. Also curious about the oxygen and desalinization plants as mentioned by Fritz.

Now days 25 years is about average for a nuclear reactor . This can be extended by careful use and monitoring of the reactor..starts ups and shut downs etc etc. Careful records are kept of this process allowing reactor life to be extended following a carefuly monitored/regulated process. New designs are going to be even longer life.
Reactors designs have come a very long way since the early days.

Great pictures Nail,
Thanks,
Orangetom

[edit on 9-6-2007 by orangetom1999]

Orangetom,

Astute won't have a conventional optical periscope, it's going to be some kind of thermal imaging camera and high-definition television sensors attached to masts and attached to the bridge by fibre optic cables. I doubt very much we'll get to see pictures of this arrangement for a while yet.

There's a lot of hype about this sub. "So quiet that it's less noisy than a baby dolphin" and that "one of the problems with this boat will be that it is too quiet ... it's sound signature is more quiet than the background sea in which it travels and hence this lack of noise makes it easy to detect". How true any of that is I don't know. It can "detect & identify vessels leaving New York harbor whilst it's parked off the english coast" - I haven't heard of any technology which is able to do that.

I dunno. The hype is much the same as when the new HMS Daring destroyer was launched. We'll see if it lives up to the hype when it gets into service in 2009.