How Can We Make a Fascist Theocracy Work?

Since we all know that fascism and theocracy are the two greatest systems of government that have nearly taken over the world several times, the keyword being NEARLY, since they always failed, anyone have any ideas how we can make it work so it will be 1984 forever?

Um ... uh ... sputter.

I am just curious. Why exactly would you WANT to make a fascist theocracy work? I'm sitting here thinking about your thread and I'm practically speechless. I don't know whether to laugh or think.

In all seriousness, isn't the good ol' USofA trying its best to become a fascist theocracy right now? It sure seems that way to me sometimes. It's why I consider The Handmaid's Tale to be a horror novel.

Sounds like the Islamic Republic of Iran is already that.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Sounds like the Islamic Republic of Iran is already that.

I have a friend from Iran. The majority of Iranian (Persian) people are young, intelligent and liberal. It's only the present government that's nuts. It won't last. If Bush weren't so stupid he'd be setting up a coup. It would be a piece of cake.

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
Why exactly would you WANT to make a fascist theocracy work?

It's a response to the thread about making socialism work. People may be oblivious to the fact that there are many moderate socialist countries already and they do work. There are also Fascist and Theocratic countries.

Which of these countries get the most negative attention? Which countries are most in need of ideas to help them work better?

I am speechless. Make a fascist theocracy work? I am more concerned in preventing it from happening. I can only hope this person is not serious.

The same way you get socialism to work: everyone has to believe in it. If any one person does not believe in it you get dissenting opinion and the control begins to crumble. So, shoot anyone who opposes you. Easy.

In response the coup thing, if you dont think the CIA has been working to fuel a revolt since before the Iran hostage crisis youre either crazy or naive. They cant keep their noses out of other countries business. Its more than half the reason there is so much animosity towards the U.S.

If you really want "1984 forever" its easy. You promise a whole lot of things to alot of people to get more money away from them and into the governments pocket grow it fat and intrusive starting with 'nice things' like federal aid, healthcare, government education, then you create internal enemies like 'big business' and 'terrorists' and create more government to regulate these things all the while spreading fear of these things (we made a government branch to fight it so now we have to be more afraid of it) and if that works and the people still demand more control and more taxation you can call upon the might forces of global warming or impending asteroid collisions and since these ae huge global issues you creat a huge global brach of many governments to work as one and tax the people more and regulate them more and control them more and voiala!

1984 forever. Coincidentaly this all happened years ago and we're in the final 'impending asteroid collision' phase.

I suppose freedom was fun while it lasted.

It would seem you did not completely understand the meaning of the film 1984 which tackles the negative progress which could happen in the nbear future. If after all it is what you are referring to.

It would seem you believe that people should be contolled and there opinions disregarded, I do not believe that you could find one could believe that people rights should be allowed to be so largerly dismissed.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
The same way you get socialism to work: everyone has to believe in it.

Even if it doesn't work perfectly, as long as people believe it can work, it will continue.

If any one person does not believe in it you get dissenting opinion and the control begins to crumble. So, shoot anyone who opposes you. Easy.

Shooting people works as long as the number of dissenters is relatively small. I know many people from former communist countries. As soon as the average person can't get food, it starts to come apart. North Korea is an exception because most people there are part of a cult and necessarily believe even if they can't get food.

...if you dont think the CIA has been working to fuel a revolt since before the Iran hostage crisis youre either crazy or naive.

That was almost thirty years ago. The CIA is clearly out of that business judging by the monumental failure in Iraq, and South America. As for a coup happening today, if the CIA approached anyone, they have a pretty bad reputation to overcome, so it wouldn't go over well. They've made their reputation by overthrowing good leaders and installing dictators after all. If a coup were to happen, it would have to be orchestrated by the people who live there and supported by a credible organization that wanted to get rid of a dictator not install a new one.

They cant keep their noses out of other countries business. Its more than half the reason there is so much animosity towards the U.S.

Again, by removing well-liked leaders and installing dictators, they have made their reputation. We can count on the US not being the ones to bring democracy to the world.

I'm trying to point out that overthrowing the Iranian government would be a piece of cake, it's just not in the US administration's (Bush's) interests to do so. They enjoy benefits from Iran being a threat.

You promise a whole lot of things to alot of people to get more money away from them and into the governments pocket...

You are really out of touch. Military spending in the US is way out of control and has been for over half a century. American taxes aren't that high relative to other countries that actually care about their citizens.

...intrusive starting with 'nice things' like federal aid, healthcare, government education,...

You already have government education. The US is the only major country without healthcare because of totally out of control military spending, and federal aid is a pretty vague subject usually applied to transfers to poorer states. Keeping people poor keeps them desperate and aid (properly spent) would go a long way to suppressing terrorism.

...then you create internal enemies like 'big business' and 'terrorists' and create more government to regulate these things...

Big business is a cyclic thing like evolution. Every time new opportunities arise, lots of people get rich fast and new companies shift the paradigm. Look how Google is scaring Microsoft. Should you be afraid of Google because Microsoft is? Think about why people are scared of Microsoft.

Terrorism is a tactic of the desperate. The only thing bad government does is take advantage of people's ignorance. Poor people are typically more ignorant than the better off. If your enemy is desperate it implies his defeat is imminent. Why do you think it's not ending?

...spreading fear of these things...

Fear and desperation go hand in hand. If you've got a good handle on the situation (ie, you're not ignorant), you will not be afraid.

...call upon the might forces of global warming...

At the beginning of the 90's people were "afraid" we would be buried in garbage. Then people started recycling. We recycle a lot now, not as much as we could, but you are suggesting that it would not be a good thing to respond to the signs of our own impact on our environment.

...impending asteroid collisions...

There's nothing new about this.

...tax the people more and regulate them more and control them more and voiala!

The incoherence of your post makes it clear that you don't really understand the dynamics of what you are saying.

Coincidentaly this all happened years ago and we're in the final 'impending asteroid collision' phase.

Not sure why you think that asteroid collision is significant.

Originally posted by balckartgraphic
It would seem you did not completely understand the meaning of the film 1984 which tackles the negative progress which could happen in the nbear future.

1984 was written to instill a justifiable concern in people so that they would prepare themselves, not fear, not paranoia. It helps you see the slippery slope so that you may avoid it. It is the people who dismiss 1984 who are ignorant and threaten to bring it upon us.

People who dismiss 1984 are those who dismissed the waste of the 80's that led to recycling of the 90's, and dismiss global warming today that will lead to the clean air and reasonable weather of tomorrow.

It would seem you believe that people should be contolled and there opinions disregarded,...

I see no difference between one form of oppression and another. If someone calls himself a socialist and forces you into a bureaucratic government health care system, how is that different from a theocrat who forces you to tithe the church?

Simple. Call fascism freedom. Replace arm tatoos with social security cards. Invent computers and networking. Put "in God we trust" on the slave grits. Then let the hoi poloi elect alternating Wal-Mart Board Members as their King.

Evangleize, capitalize, democratize. Any questions?

I see no difference between one form of oppression and another. If someone calls himself a socialist and forces you into a bureaucratic government health care system, how is that different from a theocrat who forces you to tithe the church?

Well if you open your eyes you will see people don't complain about bureaucratic health care (well maybe the NHS money problem, but thats not what I mean)
But people do complain about having their religious rites taken away.

Are you suggesting oppresion can be good. I can't see how.

Originally posted by balckartgraphic
Well if you open your eyes you will see people don't complain about bureaucratic health care (well maybe the NHS money problem, but thats not what I mean)

People do complain about bureaucratic healthcare if it means they are on a waiting list for a year, especially if they are in constant pain, and all they need is to have a simple operation.

But people do complain about having their religious rites taken away.

People insist on the right to be taken advantage of, there's no doubt about that. But that does not create in me an obligation to allow people to be taken advantage of. My personal view on the matter is education. If people are enlightened as to the methods used against them, they are much harder to take advantage of.

Are you suggesting oppresion can be good. I can't see how.

If I prevent you from touching a hot stove, you can call it oppression.

Random comments . . .

I didn't realize this forum existed.

Then I thought . . . surveying the titles of threads . . . .

WOW . . . MAYBE ATS members are more than 0.012% Conservatives after all.

Then I saw this thread title.

I think I should hold my elation and positive guesstimates about the ATS membership quite a while longer.

This thread doesn't sound like its' from the conservative and certainly not the Evangelical Christian conservative perspective at all.

Whatever convoluted perspective it's from . . . I think I'll be quite . . . wary of for quite a while longer yet.

Well, any government establishment which oppresses the people and basically turns them into slaves enjoying the fruit of labors off the backs of hard working people whom are exhausted, starving and struggling to survive with a few crumbs offered for their sacrifices like free medical care and, free education, free rent in slums- isn't my idea of Utopia at all. And these types of government do not really work- except for a few? Usually this system is glued together with a religion that promises a sweet afterlife for the rewards of their loyal service- or some such nonsense.

As one person stated in this thread there are several government entities of this nature that do work. I have examined socialism, monarchies, "democracies" and fascism and while there are some elements that are positive- the end and final estimation does not equal peace and/or equality.

I need some hard examples of these governments which supposedly work- because I have not found one to study yet which has and has the full support of people- and not the "yes" people who sing praises for a better cut meat to adorn their dinner table.

edited for spelling

[edit on 22-3-2008 by dk3000]