Where to turn with UFO pics?

For future reference, where's the best place to go to verify a UFO picture? I know that ATS has a resident expert, but he seems pretty busy most of the time. I just followed a thread for nine pages. The photos got a real bashing BEFORE anyone called in an expert. ( UFO Pics On C2C )

Now before anyone who was right on this gets their feelings hurt, just remember the fact that all I know about you is your posts. As far as I know, you could be a myopic postal worker, so without some "backing" from someone else, I have no way to value your assessment over someone who draws the reverse conclusion.

Also, someone like myself might not want fame and fortune, and would be loath to court mainstream media attention. Yet I would want to get such a picture 'out', so that the world could see it. (I am always skeptical of profiteers, as dollars seem to be more important than truth.)

At the same time, if a person of modest means did obtain a good picture, one that passed the expert test, how would they avoid having it hijacked? How could they at least get something more than a pat on the back, and yet do the honorable thing by revealing it to the world?

If any of you had a solid picture of a UFO, how would you handle the situation?

If you truly feel like you really have something, then I would hold on to it until after you contact springer or one of the other higher ups and set up a way to validate your claim. Any back story would be helpful.

You have to realize, that ATS is about TRUTH, and even though a pic might get ragged on for several pages at first, there are real experts here who take this seriously and will either prove or disprove your claim regardless of what the flock has to say about it in the first few pages.

Whatever you do, do not re-size or adjust in any way the photo in photoshop or any related product. Just post it and let the 56k people suffer. Any evidence of the pic being altered in such programs,(and they WILL know. ) will instantly kill any credibility the pic might have had.

If you think you have something good make sure to note ALL information, not just the photo / video.

If it is a digital image, keep it as original as possible. I would keep the photo / video in the camera memory as well.


In conclusion, a good sighting should include:

-Time and duration of sighting along with location and direction of object.
-Images or video straight from the camera unprocessed.
-A good story that is longer than one line and contains all relevant information . Posting a photo or video and saying" OMG LOOOOOK" will not help you out.



Be prepared to be peppered with questions and claims that you faked the entire thing. If you did not fake the entire thing you should have nothing to worry about.

I would advise people not to post videos to youtube immediately. I would much rather look at a larger file size version hosted privately.

These requirements will cause a lot of people to not bother due to hassle, potential loss of employment and social ridicule.

I doubt many members of ATS would do it either.

All images should be taken for what they are and honestly analyzed but I don't always see honesty in the criticisms either.

Always accept that what you see may not make sense to you because of the topic at hand too.

I've had a few UFO encounters myself and I was unprepared to record the events, not focused enough to record or memorize facts that researchers would want to know, nor was I motivated to bring ridcule into my life.

Furthermore, expertise is questionable on many topics due to the general lack of knowledge of mankind about the unknown and even about that which he deals with everyday.

Point in example: the pet food scandal due to Chinese wheat gluten adulterated with melamine... well experts vowed up and down that humans had nothing to worry about... but we know what is happening now. This substance did make it into livestock and other animals that humans consume and I expect things are much worse than we are being told about.

There is our trusted experts for you, they either don't really know what is going on (but have to make it look otherwise to the ignorant and trusting public), or they are in on the game some how and can't or won't tell us the truth.

If a person complies with a scientific based approach to handling evidence that will not convince a good percentage of population regarding what is real or not.

I believe that only time and more and more activity will lead to a pliable public which can accept disclosure by official means provided our leaders have any intent to tell us the truth about ET being here now.

For those wishing to make official channels happy then there are good suggestions here which will make you look like less of a faker to reasonable people but never believe that you will sell most people on your evidence and sincerity alone.

Good ideas folks. Now don't get me wrong. I personally have no pictures. While I have seen some things I couldn't explain, I don't even mention them because there's zero proof, and after a while a person starts to wonder if they were wrong to think they were UFOs in the first place.

Still, I talk to a lot of people, and most everyone in my hometown knows that I am curious about the subject. So it wouldn't be too inconceivable for someone to bring me a picture.

I have no real idea how to handle such an event. Do you mail the whole damn camera to ATS? I can download a picture that my wife has of the dogs, or a family reunion, but I have no idea what else happens, other than it shows up in the albums she has on her computer.

Part of what I'm asking is, does anyone here have a set of guidelines that could be followed? Remember that I'm most likely not the only computer idiot in the world. I live so far out in the country that we have only dial up connections, and I'm so new to computers that I just learned here, a few days ago, how to put up a link to another web site.

Since this is the type of site that it is, how about an add on to the handbook, a very helpful tool I might add, that explains how ATS would want such a thing handled?

And in the case of someone else 'owning' the picture, how would a person protect whatever rights the owner had to it?

Originally posted by NGC2736
For future reference, where's the best place to go to verify a UFO picture? I know that ATS has a resident expert, but he seems pretty busy most of the time. I just followed a thread for nine pages. The photos got a real bashing BEFORE anyone called in an expert. ( UFO Pics On C2C )

Now before anyone who was right on this gets their feelings hurt, just remember the fact that all I know about you is your posts. As far as I know, you could be a myopic postal worker, so without some "backing" from someone else, I have no way to value your assessment over someone who draws the reverse conclusion.

Also, someone like myself might not want fame and fortune, and would be loath to court mainstream media attention. Yet I would want to get such a picture 'out', so that the world could see it. (I am always skeptical of profiteers, as dollars seem to be more important than truth.)

At the same time, if a person of modest means did obtain a good picture, one that passed the expert test, how would they avoid having it hijacked? How could they at least get something more than a pat on the back, and yet do the honorable thing by revealing it to the world?

If any of you had a solid picture of a UFO, how would you handle the situation?

I'd simply post the picture all over the place and hang back. I'd be cool with any bashing if I knew what I saw. As for the C2C thread I sent a msg to the ops after my post after which the resident expert came in and marked my debunk with a seal of approval if I understand it correctly. (I.e, I and certainly others in here don't just banter for the sake of it)

I don't care much for the mundane bashing that goes on from people not being able to provide much to support their claims as to what is a hoax or not and I don't think anyone with a crown jewel of a photo should either.

I'd just post the picture on my site, send it to the local news and of course, stamp it on ATS. If all else fails, heck send it to me, I'm good people

Seriously though. If you take a photo, upload a the images straight of the memory card from the camera to a file sharing site - not an image sharing site as they might run scripts that resizes the image and removes EXIF data.
Then post the links.

If video, same deal. If large video, make a .torrent file and post out a link, leave your computer on over the night and watch it spread like beautiful wild fire. "What about my copyright"? Yeah well...I'd personally happily give it away for free but if anybody wanted to make a buck of it I'd want my cut. But if anyone wanted to do this, they'd prolly want to see the tape so you'd be safe anyway.

My two cents.

[edit on 7-5-2007 by lasse]

I put this thread up to get input on what was best to do, and hoped that with a lot of suggestions from more experienced people could lead to something worth adding to this site, not just for me, but for any other newcomer. I know this site gets a lot of visitors, and some of them might have the proverbial smoking gun picture.

This could be a worthwhile project, though I am not myself up to such a task. Being a novice to the cyber world has some serious drawbacks.

I agree, that from what I can see, youtube is an error, yet some people would use it just because it;s easy, and they would want to get others to see their picture as a form of validation.

So is this an idea worth exploring?

Originally posted by NGC2736
I put this thread up to get input on what was best to do, and hoped that with a lot of suggestions from more experienced people could lead to something worth adding to this site, not just for me, but for any other newcomer. I know this site gets a lot of visitors, and some of them might have the proverbial smoking gun picture.

This could be a worthwhile project, though I am not myself up to such a task. Being a novice to the cyber world has some serious drawbacks.

I agree, that from what I can see, youtube is an error, yet some people would use it just because it;s easy, and they would want to get others to see their picture as a form of validation.

So is this an idea worth exploring?

I think it's a great idea to have a sticky guide or something as how to best treat your pictures and videos, yep, yep.

Personally I say forget the pictures and videos, entirely.

This isnt the 50's or 60's anymore. The technologies involved with photos and videos has grown up and we need to as well. It has been proven beyond a doubt that the level of fakery has exceeded the ability to discern those faked photgraphs from what could be non fakes. Its gotten to the point where nothing can be trusted anymore, so its time to stop paying so much attention to items that are so easily manipulated and move on to a new source for evidence. Photos and videos, for me personally, are junk and can no longer be seen as valuable items for evidence.

They are the "magic bullet" of the UFO community, a joke.

The only reason these photos keep coming out is because we sit around frothing over them and argue over them if for no other reason but to entertain those who made them.

Where do we go next? I really dont know. We need to get back to basics - to the people witnessing these events - and establishing TRUE credibility. Technology is witout a doubt a great thing to watch evolve but in the case of photos and videos of UFOs, for the most part, its getting in our way.

My .02 + tax

Oh and if I had a very good picture of a UFO or something similar, I would keep it to myself. There is no photo that can be taken today that will withstand the onslaught and howls of fakery so why bother - I'll save it for my grandkids....

[edit on 7-5-2007 by Lost_Mind]

Well, Lost- what do we use? And keep in mind that a real encounter would be unplanned. What would be evidence that a normal person could come up with? If pictures are not good enough, what would be?

And pictures will keep turning up, and some could be real. The reason I say they will turn up is because to the average joe, pictures are proof. If I see a UFO, and I've got a camera in the glove box, I'll naturally think I need to snap a photo as proof. So we still need a plan that covers as many angles as possible to handle these.

And if ATS were to say, as a whole, that they would no longer want or trust any picture, then we would be turning a blind eye to a potential source of new reference material. Not to mention how newcomers to the subject, all excited over seeing a UFO, would feel when coming across the idea.

Being interested in UFOs for years, I am more relaxed with the level of skepticism that is here than a new convert might be.

I still think an agreed on protocol for vetting pictures would be helpful. As it now stands, pictures are posted on a catch as catch can basis, and there are no guidelines as to what will get serious consideration, and what will get the 'treatment' from the bashers.

The ONLY way I would ever be compelled to take into consideration any photos or videos as good evidence would be if the entire technology wrapped around imagery went through a complete overhaul. In some instances, digitization of photography is the worst thing to happen to imagery collection.

Fakes and trickery would be as detectable as the nose on your face. The technology would cause fakes and retouched photos to be blatantly transparent and the science behind the detection process would be ironclad and agreed upon by the imagery community as a whole, as a peer review. Actually force people to start going back out into their stupid back yards and tossing pie pans in the air again - make fakery HARD, very hard again.

New protocols, eliminate the easily manipulated ones, tag photos with unerasable watermarks that have been retouched - something along those lines.

Every time we see a photo that has even the smallest hint of being passed through any image manipulation software, toss it out. No questions asked, instead of this endless diatribe and arguing over effin pixels and random smudges. We should be smarter than this, for gods sake, and I dont even believe in god for gods sake....

[edit on 7-5-2007 by Lost_Mind]

Well, how about those little one use cameras, the ones you use at weddings and such? The film is sealed inside, and if these were sent to an expert, could they be of enough picture quality to do any good? At least they couldn't be tampered with very easily.

Could it be something that simple? And what about 35mm, which a lot of people use? Would film negatives give better results for verification?

I realize that the digital cameras are easy for some folks to manipulate, but surely not all formats are the same as far as being suspect.

And what about video? Is all of it going to be bad as well?

I'm trying to find more ways to get proof that at least a major portion of the community would conditionally accept. I realize that there will always be some that wouldn't accept a picture under any condition.

But to the common person, hoaxers aside, pictures are proof, so if they are in the position of observers, and they have a picture, how best to handle it? Or do we just tell them all pictures are worthless, and wait for the government to explain it all to us?

I'm just confused, as any non technophile would be, as to what a person should do when seeing a UFO. As it stands now, if I see something that rivals the one in "Close Encounters Of The Third Kind", I might as well just wave at them so they can get a picture of me.

Not a bad idea - industry certified tamperproof single use high resolution digital cameras or 35mm cameras. you can even buy accessories for it say a bigger flash etc.

If you tamper with it it dies - "This device will self destruct is 3 seconds." And put a big enough charge in there that they would never ever try it agian!

They did that with Adamski, I believe. All kidding aside it would take something along those lines. An imagery device patented and specifically developed for its inability to tamper with the media inside it. You want to see what is in it you take it to a industry certified liscened and bonded professional analyst and after many weeks of musing you get your report back.

If its determined its a fakeroo, no more camera for you! Back to the old unreliable, fakeable Walmart and Best Buy cameras you were used to using.

And what the heck has been happening lately with lie detectors?!? Why arent every blessed one of these people being wired up with the latest and greatest in bad boy detectors? Certainly that technology has been vastly improved over the years as well hasnt it? Is it to the point where it is just about as fool proof as we can get it?

As far as how ATS should be handling photo and video submissions I wouldnt venture a guess. I'll let the Amigos decide great things like that.

If I see a real alien then I myself will know the truth. If I see a ufo then I'll think most likely military until the alien comes out and say " Na Nu, Na Nu ". I don't think I'd want to go through the scrutiny, " he's a looney ", or he's just trying to be famous deal. I'd keep it to myself and just feel relieved that I know the truth. I stayed out of the C2C thread because of the pictures. You seen how many people right off the bat said " It's fake, it's cgi". It's fun to watch and learn the pro's and con's here on ATS.
It also showed others duplicated the image which proves nothing but shows it can be done to easy. I honestly think that most if not all ufo's are military crafts and planes. But I'll always keep an open mind for the reversed engineering projects and alien help with our technology. So again, until I see an alien for myself, it's just a myth to me.

Lost- I'm with you, I don't know either. I was hoping that enough people brighter than yours truly would put forth a bunch of ideas, from which the 'Powers That Be' here on ATS could look over and reach an idea on how to suggest things be handled. And also that these ideas from the posters would be of use in sorting out the worthwhile photos from the junk.

But I have gained one thing from this so far, Never list or even pay attention to you tube.

I'm still hoping that when I come back tomorrow, there will be a bunch of great ideas on this. Hope springs eternal.

Just to say one more thing.
This is a forum community that deny's ignorance, so let the pictures and video's come in. And all who dare to be denied.

Edit just to tell Lasse " Great JOb in the debunking of those pictures and the smiley.

[edit on 5/7/2007 by Solarskye]

Solar, It is to me for the most part also myth. But man needs myths, it gives us a reason to grasp the brass ring. It is in our DNA, our souls, to want to reach for what we do not have, and think 'someone' else does.

As long as we collectively think that aliens could cross the void, we will never rest until we cross ourselves. Such is the greatness at the center of humanity. And if this myth becomes truth, if we meet the aliens here on Earth, we will find other, higher myths, and move on.

I think, in some sense, our species is on a mythical journey to turn all myths into reality, and all reality into myths.

I couldn't have said it any better than that NGC. That's why it will be a myth until or if it becomes reality. I want to cross the void.
To explore strange new worlds.
To seek out new life and new civilizations
To boldly go where no man has gone before.
Sorry, I always wanted to say that

Sure, and my line is "Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life here." Old Trekkies will always want to go "That-a-way".

Engage!

Film is always the preference over digital by any analyst...
The problem is that when it gets to be dark, film for most folks unless on a tripod will create a unwanted and distorted capture. And even then, you'll most likely will get 'lights streaking' across on the final photo which does little to back up a claim (no really,, those streaks are the UFO taking off to the right!)Infrared can be used but is expensive. Many videocameras have had their versions of IR. Sony and Panasonic both offer camcorders with a very similar feature, known as Nightshot 0 LUX (Sony) or Nightview 0 LUX (Panasonic) look into cameras dated pre 1998, (these had adjustable IR exposures).

As was already stated, if your going to use a digital camera, you'll want to keep it in it's original state.. You may choose obviously the highest resolution and if possible saved in either 'RAW' of 'Tiff' mode, I'd stay away from jpeg as it's very pixelated due to compression codecs at work to keep the size down. The downside is, depending on how great the camera is that your using, you could end up with a photo thats 20 megs big (or more depending on the megapixels of that camera). Another problem that many don't know is that in most cases (depending on the software) your image onece taken is uploaded into the PC by default in a Jpeg format. Many also don't spent the time or effort to check out their manual to see how they can retain that large size rather than use the default uploading mode.....

But with a little effort, you can find out how to execute the upload in all it's glory undictated by the notorious compression criminal known as Jpeg... The format known as .png is another acceptable format for "saving the picture as"...

With regards as to what to record for a report, I suggest you glean the info here:
www.cufos.org...
It will give you a good idea of what we'd like in a report (of course rarely do we get so much information.. and/or you can use these:

"UFO Sighting" Basic Guidelines

1) Make a note of the exact date and time you saw the object. Write down any and everything you saw. Make a drawing if possible.

2) List all witnesses' names, addresses, and phone numbers. Provide ages and occupations when possible.

3) Give your exact location at the time of the sighting. Street address, city, state, country.

4) Describe the weather. Was it sunny? Overcast? Raining? A clear night? Full moon?

5) In what part of the sky was the UFO located? North, South, East, West? On the horizon or straight overhead or somewhere in between?

6) Did the UFO move? How far and how fast? Describe its movements in detail.

7) Describe the appearance of the UFO: its shape, size, distance from you and above the ground, color, texture, sound. Draw a picture of it or get someone else to.

8) Describe the area in which you made the sighting. Is it near an airport? An Air Force Base? A military or research installation of any kind?

9) Write a narrative describing what happened in your own words, just as it happened.

10) If there were other witnesses, have each of them write their own report, without consulting with each other. Have one person collect all of the sighting reports.

One of my favorite questions is:
If you held your hand straight out from your body in the direction of the UFO, what size object held in your hand would cover the ufo.. BB or pencil eraser, small marble or dime, a nickel , a quarter, a half dollar or pingpong ball (and etc.)..

Very soon.. Above Top Secret has plans to feature it's own reporting form and they never do anything halfway, so it'll be very well laid out... Perhaps you might want to retain any sightings till that happens... Of course you'd still want to document as much down on paper right after a sighting so you don't forget the information (or perhaps unknowingly embellish the information without your knowledge)..