Police and carrying guns comes into the spotlight agin

another shooting a police officer is shot dead while attending a disturbance

sourceA 43-year-old policeman shot dead at the scene of a domestic argument had been commended five times for bravery.
Married father-of-two Pc Richard Gray, a trained firearms officer, was killed while attending a domestic dispute in Shrewsbury, Shropshire, on Sunday.

West Mercia chief constable Paul West said the Dundee born officer, had previously won recognition for his part in the arrests of two armed men.

Mr West said Pc Gray was a popular officer who would be sorely missed.

The gunman is said to have killed himself following Sunday's shooting.

The force said a police armed response unit was called to attend a domestic incident at 0610 BST on Sunday.

mobil e footage of scene

question is if more officers were armed would it drive more criminals to arm them selves with more powerfull weapons



[edit on 7-5-2007 by bodrul]

That's exactly the concern, Bodrul - would more armed police mean more armed criminals?

In the United States police are routinely armed because - due to the availability of guns - the safest thing to do is assume that every criminal is armed and it may turn into a situation where either the police officer shoots first or the criminal does.

I don't think we're at this stage, and I am very wary about routinely arming police officers with guns. I feel it will make them less approachable, especially for a nation not accustomed to owning and seeing guns on a daily basis.

The criminals will be armed no matter what. Their big concern is not the police. Most criminals dont even consider the police or the law when going about their business. Their concerns are other criminals or witnesses.

Would this guy involved with a domestic disturbance have thought to himself "gee, the police that may be on their way might have a shotgun in the car so I better pull out my full-auto CETME" I really dont think so.

I find it ironic that this officer was cited for bravery numerous times. Is the act of walking into a criminal situation with no way to defend yourself other than curl in a ball and cry for help brave or insane? As a side note, I find it frightening how often in todays world being victimized qualifies as bravery.

I really had no idea you had unarmed police. Not only can the people not defend themselves from the criminal element but the police, when they finally arrive to find a dead victim, may not either?

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
I really had no idea you had unarmed police. Not only can the people not defend themselves from the criminal element but the police, when they finally arrive to find a dead victim, may not either?

- The truth is that we don't have much gun crime despite these occasional tragedies and the murder rate in the UK is low (about 1/4 that of the USA'a for instance).

Murders of serving Police Officers are rare here contrary to your expectations -

Some 36 police officers have been murdered in the line of duty in the past two decades in England, Scotland and Wales.

news.bbc.co.uk...

Sadly this new case brings that total to 37 in 2 decades.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
The criminals will be armed no matter what. Their big concern is not the police. Most criminals dont even consider the police or the law when going about their business. Their concerns are other criminals or witnesses.

If a criminal did not consider Police response in his actions, he is a dumb criminal.

And our criminals aren't "armed no matter what". Very few even carry a stick, let alone a gun.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Would this guy involved with a domestic disturbance have thought to himself "gee, the police that may be on their way might have a shotgun in the car so I better pull out my full-auto CETME" I really dont think so.

Not sure what that was alluding to.....

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
I find it ironic that this officer was cited for bravery numerous times. Is the act of walking into a criminal situation with no way to defend yourself other than curl in a ball and cry for help brave or insane? As a side note, I find it frightening how often in todays world being victimized qualifies as bravery.

Didn't bother to read the link then? He was a firearms officer, ergo, he was armed. He has been cited for bravery because he was brave, not because he "curled in a ball and cried for help"

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
I really had no idea you had unarmed police. Not only can the people not defend themselves from the criminal element but the police, when they finally arrive to find a dead victim, may not either?

We have armed Police. A cursory glance at the source would show you that. What we don't have is EVERY Police person armed.

Originally posted by stumason

Didn't bother to read the link then? He was a firearms officer, ergo, he was armed. He has been cited for bravery because he was brave, not because he "curled in a ball and cried for help"

I read it and I got the bit about him being a trained firearms officer. I figured since the topic of the thread was assuming an inquiry into arming the police that in this instance the officer in question was not armed.

Why would an armed officer being shot by an armed criminal give rise to the question of arming police officers? That wouldnt make much sense, would it?

Unless the topic is to be taken as; 'if the officer was NOT armed perhaps the criminal would not have shot him' ?

I'd definately like to see a more visible police presence on the streets, believing in the idea of zero tolerance whereby cracking down on the smaller crimes starts having an impact on the larger, however I'm not convinced that they should be routinely armed. Maybe in areas where gun crime is more prevelant it might be prudent but the whole issiue is frought with the potential for mistakes and accidents.

I believe that the PSNI are the only police in the UK that are routinely armed, and we don't really have much violent crime. Not anymore anyway!

I want to state some things here (yes I know this thread is dead but ..)

1) While almost every US cop carries a gun the vast majority can go his/her entire career without having to shoot a gun off of the shooting range. My local police force (a county police department) has over 3,000 sworn officers and provides law enforcement services to close to 1,00,000 out of the 1,500,000 that live in my county (the rest have town and village police forces and/or the county sheriff handles police work) and the last time a cop in my county had to discharge a firearm was 4 or 5 years ago. Its not like on TV or in the movies were cops are shooting people everyday (even in the major cities its not that common).

2) This is 2007 not 1807; the police need to be able to protect themselves if they are expected to protect others and no a van an hour away wont do any good if PC Bob needs a gun right then and there. Aside from the Irish Garda the UK cops are the only unarmed cops in the world that I am aware of aside from some colleges and universities who are really security guards and not cops.

This is 2007 not 1807; the police need to be able to protect themselves

- OK, but this is also the UK (or the RoI).

We simply don't have a huge level of gun crime (despite the tabloid tales)......and we do have armed Police we just tightly control the matter.

Even the cops here don't want to be armed.

As I've said before, the UK and the US are different in this respect. I know a lot of Americans scratch their heads and wonder why no one is armed in the UK. And I know a lot of Britons scratch their heads and wonder why most people are armed in the US.

The solution? Understand that, although we may be allies, we aren't identical twins and thus have different views and approaches to things.

Originally posted by Ste2652
As I've said before, the UK and the US are different in this respect. I know a lot of Americans scratch their heads and wonder why no one is armed in the UK. And I know a lot of Britons scratch their heads and wonder why most people are armed in the US.

The solution? Understand that, although we may be allies, we aren't identical twins and thus have different views and approaches to things.

Interesting topice and good responses.

The reason why 90% of US Citizens own guns is or was for overthrowing a government when it oversteps it's bounds, Like the American Revolution. I'm glad we still have those rights because this government is really starting to scare me.

But the UK sounds like a wonderful place to live with a very low crim rate, I hear about murders all the time around here.