Realistic Conservative Abortion Policy

Originally posted by gallopinghordes

You remind me of the saying I used to hear a lot "Her baby my maybe". Your attitude is out of date but sadly not that uncommon. It's time and past for that attitude to be left behind; a man is as much at fault for unwanted pregnancies as the woman who is pregnant.

Perhaps you misunderstand me... actually, I think you do since my view is neither old nor new.

It's understood that unwanted pregnancies are the fault of both people, aside from rape and other such foul things.

That is not the point. The point is that if you remove the specifics, we currently live under a grossly unjust system. In no other circumstance that I know of, would it be possible to force fiscal responsibility (forced by threat of everything, including jail time) upon a party that had no right to a say on the matter after the dominoes started falling.

My point is that we need to cease thinking of this as a woman's issue, yet the vast majority of people consider it so, on either side.

It's become so entrenched as a woman's issue (by the ilk that literally sold it as such), that we have folks like Grover who says things like:

Whats that old quip... If men gave birth abortion would be sacrosanct. I love listening to you men saying what a woman should or should not do with her life and her body... the arrogance. I am a man and I would never presume so much.

To me this is intellectually lazy garbage, but the mentality is out there in both sexes. Honestly it's really nothing but a cop out.

So be it. Personally I would prefer that equality actually be employed, or, keep it as a woman's only issue and leave the men out of it, both with respect to rights and responsibilities.

Like I said before, you can't have it both ways. People have a hard time explaining why it's a woman's right exclusively (meaning both ways, she wants and he doesn't, or she doesn't and he does), but somehow also the man's burden at the same time.

If we are to have free will then we must by necessity have the freedom to totally screw things up as well as to get it right; but in the long run there can no absolute rule of thumb as to which is which... each individual, each life has its own set of circumstance that makes their experience unique. In short each person, each man or woman have to make those personal and moral choices themselves and no one, not you, not me have the right to gainsay them in this and to make the decision for them.

You say all life is precious and I agree but a child that is born should be, especially in this over populated world, wanted and loved.... if it is unwanted and unloved, it will know this just as surely as its mother's breast before any word is said, and that knowledge will proceed to poison the rest of its life. Should a child be born undesired? I say no, it is a terrible experience...it would be better if they were aborted. Life without love is hard and empty... it is bad enough for an adult to live through it, but a child has no way to grasp the meaning of its loss, instead it is a dull and agonizing ache. Just look at the children in the foster home system in this country, most just get the bare essentials but matters of the heart are left unnurtured. It is easy for us to make moral decisions for others, but when it comes to our own flesh and blood existence we want the final word.

It is easy, and often comforting to approach such issues as abortion in simple good/bad, black/white type of morality... it takes greater courage to take measure of the nuances, the shades of gray and understand that everything is not always so simple, and to try and force simplistic solutions on real lves is the height of arrogance and cruelty.

[edit on 19-5-2007 by grover]

I find it funny that people, much like my mother and aunt, feel it's a good idea to simply get rid of a fetus if there is a chance it could encounter some of life's rougher edges.

I'd submit that we all have our sorrows in life, although some more than others. There is some kind of idea out there that because one has a bad childhood that the person will not have a productive or positive life. Perhaps we should take the idea one step further and say that rich people can have as many kids as they want, but poor folks can only have 1, if at all. That is the logical extension of this idea.

I find your line of thinking wasteful and sad, honestly, and I certainly don't say that to be disrespectful. I'd prefer to give all people a chance to live, simple as that.

As for simplicity, there is nothing simple about maintaining full abortion until birth or removing it entirely, so your supposition on my beliefs is ill founded.

I should think it's pretty obvious that we have many laws on the books today that apply morals to others, however you happen to agree with them (as most do), so they are overlooked.

Everyone has the right to make any choice they want to, however some come with a price, and I simply suggest applying a price for such an activity, much in the same way other crimes are prosecuted.

Nevertheless, it's nice that you've graced us with an opinion at least.

[edit on 19-5-2007 by KrazyJethro]

Originally posted by redseal

Have one and see if you still feel the same way!!

I've had two abortions and two kids.

I still feel that abortion is something between the mother and her doctor, NOBODY else's, not the government, not god.

I had one at eighteen because I was in no way ready to be a mother. It was a very wise move on my part, IMO. The child would have had a crappy life because I had a lot of growing up to do.

The second one I had at 40 because the baby had genetic abnormalities and a heart defect. It was most likely Down Syndrome. It would not have had much quality of life, either, and would have taken my attention away from my (normal) four year old. And now that I've left my abusive husband, I would be taking care of this child alone and it would be even worse.

It's easy for people (especially men) to say it's an abomination, but you don't have to go through nine months of pregnancy. You didn't have to go through 12 weeks of nausea so bad blood was being vomited and losing 17 pounds in that period due to an ill fetus.

Right to lifers assume it's like a woman blows her nose and she goes on her merry way, everything forgotten. It is not the case.

Both decisions to abort were difficult, the one in my 40's was one of the hardest things I ever had to decide. I was so distraught they had to sedate me with valium before they knocked me out for the procedure. It was not something I took lightly, and both procedures are something I will have to live with for the rest of my life.

But that's the key: I have to live with it for the rest of MY life.

The people who yell hardest about the rights of fetuses to live are also in many cases the same people who believe there should be no welfare or other social support programs. So how's a mother with no money, no education and no options supposed to support her unwanted child? I was beaten as a kid, and this fate often befalls children who are unwanted.

They are abandoned, abused, turned over to the state and put in the foster system.

Abortion is no more the business of anyone aside from the mother and her doctor than any other medical procedure.

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
However, if women want this "right" (which even using that word is highly debatable), then they alone should bare the full responsibility for the consequences either way.

Including all financial aspects, if the child is kept, aborted, or adopted.

Fine. Then you don't want to reduce abortions. You want to be "right."

That's your perogative, and what keeps this nonsense debate and Presidential fundraising fodder going. Why not stop trying to "win" the argument and actually help people and reduce the abortion rate at the same time?

The 95/10 Initiative DEMOCRATIC measure has been trying for years to reduce the number of abortions by 95%. But so called "conservatives" have been against it, because it actually helps the unwed Mothers they're tyring to punish for spreading their legs in the first place.

I'm so done with this debate it's scary. It's the Mud Men versus the Monkey people redux. Plain as day. Get over it. Live in the real world.

Vote Democrat or watch the abortion rate rise more. The "Religious Right" is responsible for more abortions now than anyone.

Just like Jesse Helms and Jerry Falwell gave more straight people AIDS than some gay guy doing tequila shooters in the village ever dreamed.