monkey....man....something completely new?

we are all human. yes- well most of us. but hasnt anyone considered the possibility of the distant future? we could just be another stepping stone to a completely amazing species. This would of course bugger up religious theories and prove the science theory. Im saying that humans are gonna evolve. were getting more intelligent all the time- maybe in a few thousand centuries, we (well, WE'll be dead but humans) will be so advanced that we won't need our physical body anymore, we wont need to eat or sleep and communicating by mind will be the normal thing to do. then we, will become the ancients and they'll tell stories about the stupid 21st centurians who had to use their hands to make things.
this might sound a bit farfetched but to a caveman, the idea of electricity was never comprehended. do you think this'll happen, or will we just be boring and stay as we are but with the latest mobile phone that doubles as a toaster?

I've read several things over the years about how we use only 7-12% of our brain capacity. People who have exhibited extra sensory powers supposedly have a more active brain when using their powers.
When people lose a sense the remaining senses compensate by becoming hyper sensative.
We have a long way to go before we reach the limits of our bodies, especially with regards to the remaining capacity of the human brain. I do believe we have extra-sensory powers and in the future maybe we can all use them and not just a few at the moment.
So to answer your question, I think we will remain in our physical state for a long time. Barring of course genetic mutations from all the crap floating around in the air.

[Edited on 26-11-2002 by mad scientist]

The "we use 7-10% of our brain" is a myth. That's how much we DO NOT use. We tend to use 90+% (check it out for yourself on Snopes and elsewhere.)

And yes, it's quite reasonable to think that we're some sort of transitional lifeform, in the process of evolving. Hard to predict what the next form will be -- we live too briefly to get any real info on this.

not too briefly.

The concept that evolution happens gradually over thousands of years is a little simplistic.

it comes about because fossil records of discernably different stages in evolution are thousands of years apart, but the process of evolution itself is infact constant.

we also tend to think of evolution as happening accross a species.

thats not right either. American Daisys are massively different from British daisys, the evolved along different paths due to different needs.

indeed plant evolution is amoungst the most rapid happening on a daily basis in order to combat the new strains of insect (another falisy being that evolution must be generational, it can easily occur in a single life span to entire strains of flora and fauna)

Our evolution, though constant, is less dicernably transitional that that but its still there.

For example humans no longer need wisdom teath and some people, like myself don't have any.

My father did, my mother didn't and now I don't.
as my partner doesn't either chances are our child wont.

so BAM!

30 years ago most humans were born with a secondary set of teath that emerged from their gums. in 20 years, its quite possible that no human will ever be born with them again.

similarly I read a report that suggested natural blondes only have about 10 years left. its a regressive gene and not needed so they're dying out.

2012 - every one will have dark hair

ok so they're both generalized but its still evolution, happening in your life span, right here, right now.



[Edited on 26-11-2002 by Lupe_101]

Byrd, I cruised the net looking for the articles you mentioned. What I found wa that there really isn't any conclusive proof of how much of the brain we use.

However, I choose to believe this :

'I feel that the evidence thus far is overwhelming that we are only tapping a small portion of what the human brain can do. If each of us were operating with fully functional brains, meaning that we had all the capacities of any genius, we had total psychic functioning and complete control over our autonomic nervous system at will, we could be said to operating at full capacity. I find it heartening to realize that there is a great deal of potential that I have yet to realize, rather than to assume my present state of mind is nearly the best it gets. I delight in the notion that there is a great deal of room left for improvement, new experience and the flowering of genius. Accepting this I never expect to see the end of the horizon of mindful potentials.more....

Actually evolution is NOT constant, that is a misconseption it is a "mutative" process, it happens in one generation. If the evolution is fueled enough by a need or a better way of doing things, it replaces the older version, I.E. humans versus homoerectus.

What IS constant is Adaptation, for instance children born in LA show resistance to the foul air, as do africans and mediteraneans have sickle-cell anemia.

We will never Evolve, humanity as a species will persist so long as we can make it, there may be some mutations along the line that pick up, and they would be different branches. But we have left the world of "Survival of the Fittest" we have entered the world of survival of the smartest.

Further evidence showing we are not evolving, is this pinky thing, it has been getting consecutively smaller for ages now, but it really hasn't changed size, there is no reason to lose the pinky it is just more conveiniant sometimes for it to not be a prevelant digit. That is adaptation.

Evolution would be as if we grew a tail, and lived in trees. That would stay as a new species, it wouldn't be able to mate with us. What humans are is an amalgamation of several older versions of humans, neanderthals and such. We are in a sense a very homogenously mixed version of several related species, creating one species.

Another reason why we will never evolve, is because of technology. Unless something were to "force" mutation on a massive scale, we'd never evolve, and even then, that mass mutation probably wouldn't spawn new species, just more freaks, the reason being that it would be "TOO" fast. I previously stated that evolution occurs over the span of a generation, this is only partly true.

Evolution spans that one generation, but then it takes many generations for that "evolved" species to become one homgenous type. For instance, let us say something caused humans to have smaller bodies, weaker bones, but larger brains that think faster. The way this would work, is the next generation will only show some or few of these traits, in a moderate way. Over the next few generations these traits will take precidence in a larger population that would be a spin off of humanity. Humans wouldn't simply stop existing and a new speices takes its place.

Look at monkeys after all, they are still around. The predicessors must die off for them to cease to be around.

This is another reason that we will not evolve, although right now we can still "cease to exist". This won't be for long, as we further ourselves into space exploration.

I think a good book that exibits the actual way evolution takes place is Dune (Ironically because it is a sci/fi book) But in the book there are humans, this race of space beings, and humans that have mutated while still alive because of the spice.

The reference I want to make is the "space beings". They have been marooned to only space craft, and there for "adapted" to space flight and zero-G. Over time all former human traits were lost and they are now a new species, they can't mate with humans and they are limited to zero-G because of their physique. But Humans still exist in this Book, for the same reasons that they'd exist in real life. Human population is too extensive for ALL of it to mutate into something similar, even if a spin off does occur, after tens of thousands of years, it would be like Humans and some other species living amongst eachother, or maybe they'd be at odds to one another, but still would share a common ancestry.

Sincerely,
no signature

Originally posted by FreeMason


I think a good book that exibits the actual way evolution takes place is Dune (Ironically because it is a sci/fi book) But in the book there are humans, this race of space beings, and humans that have mutated while still alive because of the spice.

The reference I want to make is the "space beings". They have been marooned to only space craft, and there for "adapted" to space flight and zero-G. Over time all former human traits were lost and they are now a new species, they can't mate with humans and they are limited to zero-G because of their physique. But Humans still exist in this Book, for the same reasons that they'd exist in real life. Human population is too extensive for ALL of it to mutate into something similar, even if a spin off does occur, after tens of thousands of years, it would be like Humans and some other species living amongst eachother, or maybe they'd be at odds to one another, but still would share a common ancestry.

Are you refering to the Navigator human sub-species in Dune?

Um...

First, Dune is, as I'm sure you know, a work of fiction. And, Frank Herbert was not known for his commentary on evolutionary theory. So quoting one fiction writer's take on a possible direction of human evolution is perhaps, at best, far reaching conjecture.

Second, if you are referencing the Navigators, the story blames intense spice adiction for their physique, not weightlessness alone.



Mad Scientist...

I believe the statistic is that most people use 5-10% of their brain at any given time and the 90% figure is indeed the total summation of portions of the brain that are used over time.


Evolution is indeed happening within humans in our lives. All you need to do is ask a shoemaker. Thirty years ago, the average adult male shoe size was 9, today it's 12. What else but evolution could cause this?

Exuse me! Evolution is a myth! Every top scientist has concluded that without some intervention there is never a change in species. Charles Darwin himself conceeded to that fact based on the Eye alone.
"Mutate an Eye for me would you brain. I am tired of swimming in the dark. All of my species is dying off because we cant see to find enough food to survive" "Hey while your at it brain, could you turn one of my vertibrate into a pelvis so that I can use my lower extrimities to support weight" " and brain If you could possibly turn those scales into feathers. I could be airborn and get up out of this water and get a good look around with those eyes that you gave me. Make sure the iris is made in a way that I can see in low light conditions. Be careful in the way you shape my cornea. I want 20/5 vision."
Give me a break. Who told DNA what changes to make. Every mutation in the animal or plant kingdom has been a negative not a progressive change. Look that up gentlemen and ladies!

[Edited on 28-11-2002 by Stangfish]

[Edited on 28-11-2002 by Stangfish]

Stangfish, It doesn't seem that you fully grasp the concept of evolution.

No william I'm not referring to the Navigators I mentioned them as such. I'm referring to the species/race of people that existed ONLY on the Guild ships. They are best discussed about in the preludes to Dune, they are not guild "members"....think of them more as gypsies. They can't leave to the planet surface, so they just bug people for tips, make sure they take their places, and help the guild where needed.

Sincerely,
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Again, fictional characters not based on any scientific research (which shows weightlessness to be very hazardous to our health).

Yo, Stang, I believe what William means is the changing because of your environment, not jumping from one extreme environment to another. Humans have also been getting taller the last several centuries, so they say.

I remember watching Star Trek : The Next Generation in which there was a character called 'Q', who was an all powerful being, who could do anything ( and I mean anything ).
I remember Q saying that the reason he took such an interest in humans was; because our search for knowlege would someday allow us to evolve into to even superior beings.

I think that our mental capacity is evolving at rapid rate as we are using our brains much more than we would have, say 100 years ago. And this is only going to get faster as we advance into the future.

anyone seen AI? the species of the future (at the end of the film) seem an interesting possibility- welll ,maybe with some skin and human features but they were really tall and thin and spoke with their mind, as well as being able to project images.
maybe media fiction isn't so far from the truth...

Did you know that Star Trek employs NASA consultants to run ideas by them for the show. Most of the stuff portrayed in the new Star Treks ( anything but the 60's ) is actually being studied at the moment in theoretical physics.
Whether or not it is going to be possible in practice remians to be seen.

[Edited on 28-11-2002 by mad scientist]

no i didnt know that. interesting...
guess it'll be a long time before anything major like that happens though
Lupe made interesting points on quick evolution though (eg no more blondes- woohoo!- sorry)
imagine if excess fingers- something that has happened a bit, became more common. Music takes on a whole new genre lol

Good point, our technology and understanding is increasing, but at which point will we burn out and fall back into a darkage? Our only limitation is age, and it is a big one, in the future it will take centuries to learn how to use what we invent.

But we are spared, because our brains don't have to evolve, nothing does, ONLY UNDERSTANDING...which isn't a genetic trait.

Our minds are more open, we learn incredibly faster than even Aristotel could learn. It is a phenomenon actually, I'm not sure anyone knows why, because our minds have been the same for a long time.

But as for evolution, to appease William, look at the Dinosaurs, that is factual scientifically observed change in evolution.

Although you can find a species ancestory, that doesn't mean that its ancestory evolved into it. For instance some dinosaurs evolved into birds, but the dinosaurs did not all become birds, that is not why none of them are left.

I guess my biggest point is, HUMANITY isn't going anywhere, we may spawn future species, but we are always going to be human, and so will "most" of our children

Only when the predecessor is made exinct will only the future species remain, but this rarely happens. In fact I do believe the hippo is a relative of the whales that went into the sea.

Sincerely,
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I saw on Discovery Channel a program on the brain. It stated that the more the brain is used, the more connections the neurons make with each other. Some neurons are connected to as many as 10 000 others. With 10 billion or so neurons in our brains, I find that makes a mind boggling amount of connections.

So, maybe in the future our brains maybe superconnected with 10's of 1000's of connections between all the neurons.

[Edited on 29-11-2002 by mad scientist]

Actually they are now finding ways to reconnect neurons that had been damaged in some patients who have severe head injuries. With that in mind it might be possible to link neurons in a way so as to create extra sensory abilities.( this is a bit far fetched i know)

evolution. ?

We are all be wiped out by some rouge comet .