The Victory of the Beast, His Image, His Mark, and His Number

The meaning of Scripture to a very large extent depends on how it is translated. The translation of something as simple as a preposition can entirely change the meaning of a passage. For example, consider what happens to the meaning of Revelation 15 when the preposition “over” is changed to “with”. Note that this is a permissible translation, according to the finest linguistic sources.

I will start by citing the fifteenth chapter of Revelation in its entirety from the King James Version.

Revelation 15

[1] And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.
[2] And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
[3] And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.
[4] Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.
[5] And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:
[6] And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.
[7] And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.
[8] And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

According to Strong’s Concordance, ek or ex is “a primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence action or motion proceeds), from, out (of place, time, or cause; literal or figurative”. It translates, “out of, from, by, away from” and is rendered “of 366, from 181, out of 162, by 55, on 34, with 25, misc 98” a total of 921 times in the New Testament.

Verse two of this passage, inserting the original Greek preposition and its possible English rendering, reads as follows:

“And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over [ek or ex, meaning “with”] the beast, and over [ek or ex, meaning “with”] his image, and over [ek or ex, meaning “with”] his mark, and over [ek or ex, meaning “with”] the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God” (Revelation 15:2).

This verse may, then, properly read:

“And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory with the beast, and with his image, and with his mark, and with the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God” (Revelation 15:2).

After adjusting for this change the fifteenth chapter of Revelation reads:

[1] And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.
[2] And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory with the beast, and with his image, and with his mark, and with the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
[3] And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.
[4] Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.
[5] And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:

. . .

[6] And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.
[7] And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.
[8] And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

We now have an accurate picture of the future.

Neron, care to reply to my questions in this thread please?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Would just like some indepth view into what you say you know regarding the antichrist

mrbocci,

I posted a reply per your request.

Beasts are just the seven spirits of God incarnate:

I said in my heart concerning the matter of sons of men, that God might reveal them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts. For that which happens to the sons of men also happens to beasts, even one thing happens to them. As this one dies, so that one dies; yea, they all have one breath; so that a man has no advantage over a beast; for all is vanity.
Ecclesiastes 3:18-19

'Beast' is the apparent illusion of mortality that fools us all. 6 is the number of carbon - the basis of the organic food chain.

6 atoms
6 electrons
6 protons

That is what we must overcome - thinking that we die. The only reason we think we die is because we think we die.



I know this now, without a doubt. There is 'no' enemy besides our own limited imaginations. Just GOD. ONE living GOD of which we are all a part.

Neron Kaiser,

Let me show you a verse or two from Revelation!


Rev 22:18 ¶ For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:


Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.

I don't know what your trying to accomplish, but every time I read a thread that you start or reply too, you reword the Bible to try to support your twisted agenda.

The Bible was translated by a committee (47 men) of the best scholars and linguist of their day (1604) under a stringent set of rules for their translation.

I hope you are not trying to put yourself above these men and claim to be more intelligent with your translations!


Read here to learn more:

www.av1611.org...

By the way: The very name you choose to use is a rebuke against you!

Caveo vestri fatum propinquo

Originally posted by BugZyZuncle

I don't know what your trying to accomplish, but every time I read a thread that you start or reply too, you reword the Bible to try to support your twisted agenda.

The Bible was translated by a committee (47 men) of the best scholars and linguist of their day (1604) under a stringent set of rules for their translation.

I hope you are not trying to put yourself above these men and claim to be more intelligent with your translations!

Neron has a different revelation than you are used to, but no one can claim he put faith in some committee of the best scholars to find it. God never said to put your faith in mans interpretation of the bible. To each is given their own truth. I can honestly say that I have only on a couple occasions looked up Greek origins of the New Testament and both times the original Greek made the text take on an entirely different meaning.

In my opinion, the committee of 47 twisted the original text to put everything in a good light, because people would not understand it (because they are wicked). I would bet that if you did the same research as Neron, you would have little to say about the original text, because that would make you guilty of what you condemn him for.

Besides, what is it for anyone to boast they are better than another man? Are you saying the 47 scholars are superior to us, and why? Because you like what they determined you should read a long long time ago?

Pleeeeeeeze.

Well, lets see......

The Bible was not written so every person on his own can interpret it.

Each person in this world began with a teacher, no matter how you look at it.
In order to understand the WORD we must first have a teacher to lead or show us how!
If we believe that we are above those who lived Christ like and did the work of God, then we are falsely lying to ourselves ....
We must ask ourselves if we are worthy to understand the knowledge of God and what He says through His Prophets.
If we actually believe that we are knowledgable enough to interpret Scripture, then we are being deceived by our proud nature.....just as Lucifer thought that he could become God.

"Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God that in due time he may exalt you. Cast all your anxieties on him, for he cares about you. Be sober, be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. Resist him, firm in your faith." (In the 1st Holy Epistle of the Apostle Peter 5:6-9).
source

Where does Wisdom come from?

"Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path" (Psalm 118 [119]:105).

What does Scripture say about OWN interpretation?

the Ethiopian as he read the Old Testament in his chariot,
Philip the Apostle asked him,
"Understandest thou what thou readest?"
And the Ethiopian answered,
"How can I, unless some man should guide me?" (Acts 8:30-31).
We are all in the position of the Ethiopian.
The words of Scripture are not always self-explanatory.
God speaks directly to the heart of each one of us as we read our Bible. Scripture reading is a personal dialogue between each one of us and Christ - but we also need guidance

How to read the Bible

I have only on a couple occasions looked up Greek origins of the New Testament and both times the original Greek made the text take on an entirely different meaning.

Hi ben/, can you show us where?
The Original Greek text both Old(Septugient...70 Jewish scholars interpreted) and New Testament are there for reference and therefore the meaning does not change.......the meanings are not different....unless the Church itself is not Orthodoxy, then the meaning of each seperate Christian body has done this and not Orthodoxy.
Orthodox Bible

IX
helen

Originally posted by helen670
Hi ben/, can you show us where?
The Original Greek text both Old(Septugient...70 Jewish scholars interpreted) and New Testament are there for reference and therefore the meaning does not change.......the meanings are not different....unless the Church itself is not Orthodoxy, then the meaning of each seperate Christian body has done this and not Orthodoxy.
Orthodox Bible

IX
helen

As to what text I am referring to, I can honestly say that I did not record it to memory of which ones it was, mainly because it confirmed my faith regarding those texts. I normally do not study the bible as a proof for other people, because I am mainly interested in my own salvation first. That is quite big enough of a task for me to understand the meaning of the scripture as it applies to me. I hope you understand this.

But, I won't leave you swaying in the wind. I recently made a post about the book of Genesis, regarding the two accounts of the order of creation.

Look here for the whole thread.

The KJV version says this:

Gen 1:21
And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Strong's Concordinance renders the word "whales" as:

H8577
a marine or land monster, that is, sea serpent or jackal: - dragon, sea-monster, serpent, whale.

Now mind you this is not from Greek, but the orginal Hebrew, but what does this tell you about the translation? The first says whales and Strong's refers to a number of creatures more aptly talking of either reptiles, marine mammals, or even dinosaurs. Can you see how a simple change of the definition of one word can make a big difference?

Imagine if a group of people decided that the wording should mean a certain way because of presupposed ideas of what Christ meant or was, and then you can understand how things can get twisted.

I am fully into Christs message, but wary of how people may have changed its meaning to define something else. Be a wolf in sheeps clothing dear helen.

This is primarily why the thrust of my convictions has led me to believe that the primary teaching of Christ is the truth with no other conditions or exceptions - ALL sins are forgiven. Believing in this, means there is no room for misinterpretation of dogma or argument. You cannot say everything is forgiven and in the next moment say something is bad. The two statements disqualify each other.

[edit on 7-5-2007 by ben91069]

In his Epistle to the Romans, Paul describes a supernatural veil that darkened the minds of Jews against the Gospel. Paul attributes the darkness to the purpose of God in bringing light to the Gentiles.

Paul said the day would come when the veil would be lifted from the Jews. Perhaps a similar supernatural veil has rested over the Gentiles, darkening their understanding to the role of the counterpart messiah, the Antichrist, in regard to his effort in restoring the fortunes of Israel.

Exactly.

What God hides from view...is HIDDEN good until time to see it....and then only those who are to see it, can.

AMAZING.

Originally posted by Neron Kesar
Paul said the day would come when the veil would be lifted from the Jews. Perhaps a similar supernatural veil has rested over the Gentiles, darkening their understanding to the role of the counterpart messiah, the Antichrist, in regard to his effort in restoring the fortunes of Israel.

Hi/

Perhaps!
But until then, I prefer to leave the explanation of the Antichrist to those that were enlightened by the Holy Spirit!
Many 'Desert Fathers' going back two thousand years have already done this!
They lived in the Desert and caves and fasted on what little they had.
They ate very litlle and slept only a few hours, some even forgot to sleep and eat because their prayer was their life.
Today such people exist and pray and sleep and eat very little......just as was in the early Church.
These people are Humble and do the work of God,not only in deed, but in Word.
Jesus Christ said NOTHING was to be hidden.

The veil that was to be lifted for the Jews was to know that Jesus Christ was /Is God.
Right before the end of the World, a similar unveiling will take place........again, not for those who seek Wordly Glory, but humbly do the work of God and seek nothing from this world.

IX
helen

This means little to an outside observer

Originally posted by BugZyZuncle

The Bible was translated by a committee (47 men) of the best scholars and linguist of their day (1604) under a stringent set of rules for their translation.

in modern times when we have need of explaining things
a "Blue Ribbon Panel" of experts or knowledgeable people is formed

the committee you cite was most likely the same nature
as any modern 'Blue Ribbon Panel', including The Kennedy Assassination,
and the more recent 9-11 Commission.
both which ammounted to little more than an Official rubberstamp of what TPTB had already told us to believe.
?am i to understand that the 1604 translation committee was any different?