US Troops Believe Torture Should Be Allowed!

OK guys, some here are confusing normal police control methods intended for the usual law and order scenarios by state police departments with the very serious business of protracted counter insurgency ops. They're poles apart.

I've been in this couldron of anti terrorist ops for a decade plus and know first hand the blood, sweat and tears of operating in this hellish environment, especially when one's commanding a large body of troops.

You can't even begin to comprehend the tremendous psycological pressure on them, when death is staring you in the face anytime, any place. The lesser trained and the inexperienced, often break down and go berserk. For them, it's a question of life or death. It's the psychological conditioning of troops that needs to be adressed and not invoking the Geneva Conventions by throwing the book in the soldiers face. There comes a stage when there are no rules of engagement. You bash on, regardless, specially when you find your buddies blown to pieces by an IED in a terrorist ambush.

But the bottom line is, if you have suspected or even known terrorists as prisoners in your camps, it is unacceptable to use torture of any kind to ferret intel. If you can't do it by the prescribed time tested methods, you are either incompetent at interrogation techniques or you should go look for someone else who'll spill the intel you want.

no whats scary truthseeka is I put on a uniform like millions of others before me to fight and die to protect your rights because you WOULDN'T. (but maybe its better most people don't serve...if everyone served the US wouldnt have survived as long as it has) And let me guess...the world would be better off without the US Military right? You as an AMERICAN would be better off without the military? You may not like the WAR in Iraq and thats fine, but to say that the horrors of war AREN'T necessary is just amazing to me. Imagine your mindset during WWII! Where would this world be with people who can't except reality for what it is. I guess Hitler wasn't that bad right. I mean he wasn't attacking the US directly..so why did we go stick our nose into that WAR? Hell we shoulda let 5 million jews die and 15 counties get overrun by the Germans. Then we could of waited here on our land and tried to take them on here. I mean im 100% sure IF a war ever comes to this soil you'll be right there protecting the freedoms you enjoy right...or you going to be like most and sit back and critisize while a select few do what they can to make things right.

as for selfless...I wish this world could be ALL PEACE LOVE AND HAPPINESS...where bad things wouldnt happen...but never say never...can you stick to your beliefs if one of your children or family member is about to die...will you just stand by and let it happen since you REFUSE to push the envelope?

Originally posted by shadow_soldier1975
as for selfless...I wish this world could be ALL PEACE LOVE AND HAPPINESS...where bad things wouldnt happen...but never say never...can you stick to your beliefs if one of your children or family member is about to die...will you just stand by and let it happen since you REFUSE to push the envelope?

What is your definition of push the envelope? I will never murder any living beings. I have my reasons that are personal to me and with no exception will i ever compromise my integrity.

The way i see it, if you kill someone, you are no better then that person you thought you had reasons to kill in the first place.

How can you achieve peace if you become the very thing you want to fix by trying to fix it? How can you cure poison with poison?

You simply become the person you thought you had reasons to kill and therefor, you are no better then him.

This ideology leads to a endless paradox and a cycle of none stopping delusional hate and suffering for nothing. It's also what i call, a war.

The corporate elites laughs at you while you sacrifice your life to help them serve their agenda and most of these people aren't even aware of it.

Sure your intentions were perceived to be good ones in your consciousness, but you were manipulated into believing lies and because of that, you killed for the sake of making rich people richer and poor people poorer.

The government is not your friend, the sooner you realize this the better off you will be.

Peace and love is what we need, not wars.


[edit on 6-5-2007 by selfless]

Mod Edit: BB Code.

[edit on 7/5/2007 by Mirthful Me]

selfless as much as I admire your beliefs and as I stated before I wish the world could be so simple. I would love to wake up knowing there will be no violence to worry about. I know its a vicious cycle..but if a group of kids are playing outside and a terrorist has a bomb strapped to his body and is walking towards them..I WILL KILL HIM WITHOUT HESITATION! Not because I get filled with joy. Not because I didn't get enough sleep and I'm pissed off that day. I will kill him because I cannot sit by and watch innocent people die. If in YOUR opinion I am just as low as that bomber then so be it, but those kids will atleast have the chance to live another day and not be taken from this planet by some scumbag!

Same senerio but you catch one of the bombers conspieritors. If I know those kids lives can be saved by me extracting information from this guy, yes I will put him through HELL!

Flyer

I think it is funny that you would call soldiers sheep. In fact, by reading your posts I can see that you have a vary small understanding of the military. You can point out a few things about a soldiers training or there mindset but you really can't look at the bigger picture and see where these things come together.

Calling soldiers sheep. You have come to some sort of conclusion about soldiers basied upon what you have been told. If you had any idea of what it was like to be a soldier then you might understand.

Like I said before, I can't tell you what is right or wrong when it comes to torture. What is right and wrong? You don't care about the soldiers who are going to die because some Iraqi wont give up information about who is supplying them with IED's? What about the wemen and children. More Iraqi wemen and children get killed by suicide bombers, and IED's than US soldiers.

At this point in the war everything is about information. There is no target. There are people who run into a market, or sit by the street who are going to set off a bomb. You don't know when or where it is going to happen, the only thing can have is information to stop the problem before it starts. If we fail to get the information needed to stop the problem then we have more dead people.

Im not here to debate you. Im trying to let you know what is going on. With my job, proving you wrong is not important. In a perfect world we can set up rules, we can have a right and a wrong. Soldiers don't live in a pefect world. It almost seems like it, believe me there are a lot of rights and wrongs in the military (lol, anybody know where im coming from?). When something, somewhere gose wrong that is where a soldier is sent.

I can't tell you what to think, and you have your right to say what your going to say. But I can inform you of a different point of view. A point of view you might not get to hear everyday. The point of veiw where this is sombodys life. At least for 15 months.

Styki

Originally posted by selfless

The corporate elites laughs at you while you sacrifice your life to help them serve their agenda and most of these people aren't even aware of it.

Sure your intentions were perceived to be good ones in your consciousness, but you were manipulated into believing lies and because of that, you killed for the sake of making rich people richer and poor people poorer.

[edit on 6-5-2007 by selfless]

I believe that it is never good to think about why we are over there. In the military we have this saying, "that's way about my give a beans level" (edited to translate to civilain talk). Going to Iraq sucks. I could sit there and think about why we are over there all day long. Sometimes people get into sticky situations that don't seem all that great. It's our job to do the best that we can do to make things better.

Being away from your family, people wanting to blow you up, being in a country that gets above 140 degress in the summer just sucks. Somebody can put you in a place that is bad but it's up to that person to decide what they do there. So many people try to downgrade the soldiers and talk about all the bad things that they do. Why don't these people enlist to get the job done the way they think it should be? I think this is a great opportunity to do some good. I didn't even have to pay for anything, the government helped me out with all of that. If I was to do anything good for the people, would you guys hear about it? Nope, not with our media but I really don't care because im not out to impress anybody.

Styki

I messed that one all up, double post. I guess

[edit on 7-5-2007 by Styki]