US Troops Believe Torture Should Be Allowed!

More than one-third of U.S. soldiers in Iraq surveyed by the Army said they believe torture should be allowed if it helps gather important information about insurgents, the Pentagon disclosed yesterday. Four in 10 said they approve of such illegal abuse if it would save the life of a fellow soldier.

Many soldiers said they had mistreated civilians in Iraq, such as kicking them or needlessly damaging their possessions.

That’s bad enough where innocent Iraqi civilians are concerned. But if they’re terrorists then, yes, I think they should be given a hiding and strung on the clothesline. But the moot question is: how do you identify an innocent civilian from a terrorist?

Counter insurgency is a gory, violent, low intensity conflict where one’s up against an ‘unseen’ enemy. The tension of operating in such environments is palpable. And agonizing and outrageous when you discover that your buddy has been blown up by an innocuous looking civilian strapped with explosives.

So it’s a thin red line. It’s easy for arm chair strategists and human rights activists thousands of miles away, having little or no experience in counter insurgency ops to preach the lofty ideals of respecting human rights even if they are terrorists who can blow you away with the press of a button hidden in their navels.

But torturing civilians known to be innocent, for extracting info about terrorists is unacceptable.


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Im going to try to explain this in a way that people can relate to and understand. It's much like the "War on Drugs" in the US or any other country. There are major dealers who supply smaller dealers who sell drugs to those who use them. It is easy for law enforcement to catch the user and when they do they are going to try to get them talk (tell them where they got the drugs from). They understand that there is no way to stop the drug flow if you just catch the user. There are always going to be users. For every user they put behind bars a new one is going to pop up.

In Iraq one of the main threats is IED's. There are a few people who know how to make them and when they do they are going to pass them off to somebody who will use them. So when US forces find somebody setting up an IED the most important thing they can get from that person is who they got it from. If you can find the guy that is making the IED's then you can cut off that source.

What I can't tell you is the best way to deal with this situation.

All I can say is that less than 1% of the American population is in the military. This war has been going on for years and we have men and wemen who have spend a big portion out of the last few years of their lives in a combat zone.

Without going further into that, I would like to know what soldiers were servayed? I know it was a small percentage of those in Iraq but were they combat arms soldiers?

Styki

For years the British Army were fighting against the IRA in Northen Ireland and I can say with a fair degree of certainty, that plenty of inocent Irishmen got a few smacks in the search for a decent bit of intel.

But all these years later. "Slap a prisioner did you?" Asked the (scumbag bottom feeding) lawer "No Sir, not me Sir, not allowed to do that Sir." BEEEEEEP the lie detector goes wild.

And the private who saw some of his best friends killed goes to jail. Just trying to do his job and stop the barstards.

The media has a lot to answer for. A war is no longer a was it's a damm show.

could the mind control techniques be used on soliders during their bootcamp period. Like a movie or something that they watch about war that really hypnotizes them and no one can ever figure it out cuz these guy's are geniuses.

Of course mind control is used on soldiers during training. They are brainwashed in to blindly following orders without question and believe this is the correct thing to do.

Youll probably even see it in this thread when some ex servicemen will defend that training.

US Troops Believe Torture Should Be Allowed!

That along with the lack of respect to Iraqi civilians, and taking into consideration that the US is in Iraq illegally and under false pretenses as occupiers, it tells how good our nation . . .Is winning the harts and minds of the Iraqi people that was supposed to be liberated from their oppressor Saddam.

Let's give our soldiers the right to torture at will . . . like that it will be less Iraqis to take care off and our soldiers will vent their anger, frustration and mental needs on them rather that in their families and society when they have to come back and see how they were used by the government that they swore to protect.

Yes I am been sarcastic.

The more time our troops spend in Iraq and in the mess that Iraq has become the worst their mental state will be when they come home to society and family life.

What the liberal media calls torture is actually negotiation techniques that should be implemented if it means saving the lives of soldiers and innocent civilians. If any individual harbors information about terrorist activity they are not innocent. Much of what happened in Abu Ghraib wasn't torture by any means. Some of it however was uneccessary...

Originally posted by laiguana
What the liberal media calls torture is actually negotiation techniques that should be implemented if it means saving the lives of soldiers and innocent civilians. If any individual harbors information about terrorist activity they are not innocent. Much of what happened in Abu Ghraib wasn't torture by any means. Some of it however was uneccessary...

Laughable spin. They would abide by the Geneva convention if they were not using torture instead of declaring them enemy combatants.

You seem to ignore that a lot of this torture was used on innocent men, women and children.

What I'm suprised about is how nobody thinks torture can be ok. What about other countries that use torture to try to get information from our troops. Is it ok for them to break fingers, an arm, leg, etc. to get some information from a soldier? I believe torture should be allowed, but only if the enemy is using it against soldiers first.

Originally posted by secret titan
What I'm suprised about is how nobody thinks torture can be ok.

Actually I agree, if the person being captured is prove to be involved in some acts to harm soldiers or other Innocent civilians.

What about other countries that use torture to try to get information from our troops. Is it OK for them to break fingers, an arm, leg, etc. to get some information from a soldier?

We are Americans and in America we are the example of the protections of human rights and how can we claim as a Nation to be protectors and engage in torture while telling others no too.

I believe torture should be allowed, but only if the enemy is using it against soldiers first.

When soldiers are given the right away to do torture its going to become like the Abu-Ghraib scandal.

And who said US doesn't use torture?

We have been doing it for years.

The secret facility is part of a covert prison system set up by the CIA nearly four years ago that at various times has included sites in eight countries, including Thailand, Afghanistan and several democracies in Eastern Europe, as well as a small center at the Guantanamo Bay prison in Cuba, according to current and former intelligence officials and diplomats from three continents.

But far and away from the sensitive eyes and noble American good families.

www.washingtonpost.com...

You can not let a group of soldiers to go on a torture spree.

[edit on 5-5-2007 by marg6043]

Originally posted by marg6043

You can not let a group of soldiers to go on a torture spree.

[edit on 5-5-2007 by marg6043]

I agree, it would have to be very stricly regulated and there would have to be certain people around to make sure it didn't get out of hand. Something like a torture moderator that would have to be there to oversee and make sure soldiers were following the rules.

Originally posted by secret titan
I agree, it would have to be very stricly regulated and there would have to be certain people around to make sure it didn't get out of hand. Something like a torture moderator that would have to be there to oversee and make sure soldiers were following the rules.

If torture is good enough for foreigners, I hope you right to you local politicians and ask if they would ok it for the police to be able to torture subjects where you live.

Of course, as long as they follow the rules.

It wouldn't bother me any, plus it would probably make crime happen less often. If a criminal knew they wouldn't be getting away with a "slap on the wrist" they would be less likely to do the crime. I think that punishment should fit the crime. If you steal, you start to lose fingers. If you continue to steal, soon you won't have hands to steal with.

The reason the world considered the US the leader in all things good was because you didnt condone or accept things such as torture.
No matter what reason.

it just goes to show how far this criminal has led your country down the toilet.

for anyone to even accept torture is acceptable has gone against their countries values.

especially when your torturing a country, whom did nothing to you, whom is only trying to defend itself against a foreign invader.

look at it this way..

someone invades the usa because they say your going to strike them.
when its proven you wernt going to, they start saying they did it to free you.
any american whom defends their home against this occupier is the enemy.
and now, you can be tortured if you do not accept this foreign occupier.

boy o boy, the propoganda machince is claiming you by the dozen isnt it.

Well, this just prooves we shouldnt elect people from the military, since they obviously don't have the foresight and a simple grasp of humanity. No offense, but anybody who willingly joins a job that entails killing people isnt quite in a strong mindset to make decissions anyways.

WolfofWar if you were in charge of ANYTHING with your mindset...it would be overrun and destroyed before you knew what hit you. Why? From that STUPID remark your mind set is anyone NON military can handle the bullies and killers of this world. I think not! No matter what you preach or say there will always be someone trying to bully and kill, steal and fight, etc...and you better hope to GOD that there ARE people like your servicemen willing to get dirty when the time comes. If there weren't the USA wouldn't exist and niether would any of your rights or freedoms.

As for the torture in Iraq lets get one thing straight...Abu Ghraib WAS NOT TORTURE!!!!!!!!! Those prisoners were WELL fed..better then the infantrymen in the field. Those prisoners got medical attention for ALL injuries or illnesses 24/7. NONE of them were beat...they were embarrassed, they were naked, they were made to sit on hard floors and listen to music they didn't like...and SOMETIMES they had a hood on so they couldn't see! THAT IS NOT TORTURE!

Second...torture SHOULD be used if it is able to gather intel on ANYTHING or ANYONE that will save our troops lives or lives of innocent people. Someone mentioned letting police torture suspects...I agree...why...here is my example...

Police catch a suspect in a kidnapping case. He took an 9 year old girl from lets say an arcade. He put her in his car and drove her to a field where he rapes her, beats her, rapes her again...then leaves her lay in that field while shes still breathing and alive but badly hurt. Police have video PROVING without a doubt the guy they arrested is the kidnapper. So they start to interrogate him. He won't talk without a lawyer. He says "I have rights and you can't lay a finger on me". So the cops sit there asking question after question...the little girl lies in the field 11 miles away barely breathing and in pain slowly dying. The cops finally get him to admit after showing him the video. He says, "yes I kidnapped her and raped her, beat her and raped her and now shes laying in a field dying but I'm still not going to tell you where".

In the above case imagine if: You wouldn't allow a cop who cares more about the life of a little girl then this sh!tbags rights to break a few fingers, smack him across the shins with hios steel asp, break a kneecap, or to choke him till he thinks he just might die. For anyone who thinks they are HUMAN RIGHTS activists and says NO to torture...then YOU ARE ALSO RESPONSIBLE for the DEATH of that little girl. That man gave up his rights by doing his deeds or knowing of other deeds that may lead to the death of others.

In closing..THE ABOVE CASE JUST SO HAPPENS TO BE TRUE!!!! In Florida in 2005 a man named John Couey kidnapped Jessica Lunsford. He raped her, beat her, raped her and left her to die. And thanks to HUMAN RIGHTS and CIVIL RIGHTS activists, and lawyers this man sat untouched while little jessica layed in a field dying. Imagine that was your daughter..and cops told you: "Sorry sir but he won't talk so we have to just let her die and when we find the body you can have it back". You as the father plead..please do something but all we as police can say is..Sorry..we aren't allowed to do anything mean..he has rights, your daughter doesn't...

its easy to sit here for some of you and so NO TORTURE...but most of you are just like GREENPEACE idiots who cry no oil, no wood, etc etc...until every GREENPEACE activist is homeless, naked, and has to walk everywhere...it is all mute

[edit on 5/5/07 by shadow_soldier1975]

Originally posted by secret titan
It wouldn't bother me any, plus it would probably make crime happen less often. If a criminal knew they wouldn't be getting away with a "slap on the wrist" they would be less likely to do the crime. I think that punishment should fit the crime. If you steal, you start to lose fingers. If you continue to steal, soon you won't have hands to steal with.

and youd be perfectly ok if your spouse or family member was wrongly arrested and tortured and then lost their fingers.

I cant believe how backward your thinking is.

Edit- and that goes to the poster above too whos views are just too idiotic to even respond too.

[edit on 5-5-2007 by Flyer]

So let me get this straight...

if you do not accept us occupying your nation, setting up a government, imposing roadblocks and curfues and keeping our soliders in your nation... we will torture you.

exactly how is this different from saddam?

wernt we meant to be removing this type of behaviour?
why is our torture of the iraqis ok, but saddams isnt?

torture no matter what the reason is never appropriate.
that was the moral high ground the usa had over the rest of the world.
its called human rights, ethics, humanity and love for thy fellow man.

something this government has no idea about, and something they seem to be infeciting the rest of the nation with too.

Originally posted by Flyer
and youd be perfectly ok if your spouse or family member was wrongly arrested and tortured and then lost their fingers.

I cant believe how backward your thinking is.

Edit- and that goes to the poster above too whos views are just too idiotic to even respond too.

[edit on 5-5-2007 by Flyer]

No, you would have to have evidence that showed 100 percent proof that the person did the crime otherwise torture could not be used. Therefore nobody that was wrongly arrested would be tortured. But if I or a member of my family was stupid enough to do ANY crime and not cooperate with the police, then, yes, they would deserve to be tortured. Backward, no....it would get results.

Originally posted by Flyer

Of course mind control is used on soldiers during training. They are brainwashed in to blindly following orders without question and believe this is the correct thing to do.

You Sir, are mis-informed and dis-info at it's best, a traitor, at it's worst.

Youll probably even see it in this thread when some ex servicemen will defend that training.

Yes, I'm ex-Army. All service branches and their persons have the right
to refuse an order, if they deem it immoral, or illegal. Even an E-1 has
this right.

To say that we are "brain-washed" is a travesty for what the liberals have
done to this country.

I suggest you get better information, than what you troll up whilst bottom
feeding on the internet.

Thanks,
Lex