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Another Fake Video?
page: 11share:
Originally posted by Cygnific
carpent tua poma nepotes:
Your descendants will pluck your fruit
In the movie at 04:52 there is some chatter, my guess would be Russian,Ukrainian or that region, which would fit the Alexei Leonov as photographer description..
Well for what it's worth Alexey Leonov was involved with from what looks like a "few" special joint USSR?US projects. Looks like if you track back he had some oversite on Soyuz 21 projects.
Soyuz 21 carried cosmonauts Boris Volynov and Vitali Zholobov to the Salyut 5 space station.
The Salyut 5 crew’s stay coincided with the start of the Siber military exercise in Siberia. The cosmonauts observed the exercise as part of an assessment of the station’s military surveillance capabilities. They conducted only a few scientific experiments–these included first use of the Kristall furnace for crystal growth. Engineering experiments included propellant transfer system tests with implications for future Progress freighter operations.
Experiments conducted during the mission were mainly of a military nature as part of the Almaz programme. However, various purely scientific tasks were also carried out, including solar observations and biological observations (an aquarium of fish was carried into orbit). A TV link-up with school children was also undertaken.
The Soyuz 21 crew seems to have left the station suddenly, ahead of their scheduled departure date. This has been attributed to a fire, an environmental control system failure, and to health problems caused by fumes from chemicals used to develop film from the station’s surveillance cameras. Mention has been made of poisonous vapours present on the station, but the crew also seemed to be suffering psychologically and physically for other reasons. Zholobov in particular experienced terrible space-sickness and homesickness.
I once again go back to if NASA and USSR at that time were all on the same page about a EBE "threat" they would have been more than willing to host a launch from one of their heavy launch sites. But this is just based of the "IF" factor. The fact that NASA has no record of (AP#20) well I have to say that how can we say our government would ever lie about classified missions.
en.wikipedia.org...
Originally posted by tsloan
Well for what it's worth Alexey Leonov was involved with from what looks like a "few" special joint USSR?US projects.
I once again go back to if NASA and USSR at that time were all on the same page about a EBE "threat" they would have been more than willing to host a launch from one of their heavy launch sites. But this is just based of the "IF" factor. The fact that NASA has no record of (AP#20) well I have to say that how can we say our government would ever lie about classified missions.
The time period the co-op began doesn't make it easier, the tension between Russia/USA was to my memory still not good(in the media that is), but they make a joined space project in July 1975, then supposedly a year after this in August 1976 they fly the Apollo20 to the moon to dig up some crashed aircraft, which seems to be a very good reason to make a joined flight. But, the co-op is public knowledge, so maybe somebody had a great idea to make 'his' version of the farside of the moon.
Btw thanks for the wiki link, the guy has 3 surname possibilities it seems:
Alexey, Alexei and Aleksei
I've been playing around with the audio a little, and the voice in the background does seem to say "Vandenberg 20"
Vandenberg 20
And around 4:50 it does sound like he is saying that he can see meteor impacts
Meteor Impacts wav
I don't hear any voice during most of the transcription though, so it's hard too say where the dialog really came from, and since this mission doesn't exist, except to ole retiredafb, we'll just have to see what else he posts.
If there is some actual audio of these guys speaking, we can compare the accent. If this is indeed a hoax, there was an awful lot of work put into this. I find it peculiar that you can see this thing in the archive photos.
Aren't there any recent high res pictures of the moon?
Vandenberg 20
And around 4:50 it does sound like he is saying that he can see meteor impacts
Meteor Impacts wav
I don't hear any voice during most of the transcription though, so it's hard too say where the dialog really came from, and since this mission doesn't exist, except to ole retiredafb, we'll just have to see what else he posts.
If there is some actual audio of these guys speaking, we can compare the accent. If this is indeed a hoax, there was an awful lot of work put into this. I find it peculiar that you can see this thing in the archive photos.
Aren't there any recent high res pictures of the moon?
Originally posted by Quasar
I've been playing around with the audio a little, and the voice in the background does seem to say "Vandenberg 20"
Nice find on the Vandenberg 20 audio Let's hope some new material comes out soon and then with better audio.
don't get me wrong.... i love this stuff and would be more than happy if it were true. there are quite a few things that don't make sense to me
though.
was it possible to communicate via radio or VHS TV with the earth on the farside/darkside of the moon in realtime? i suppose you could relay a VHF signal off of the CM to earth. but in 1971 on Apollo 15 they were having comms loss from the near side at Hadley Rille even with the relay.
also, the Lunar TV cams didn't have monitors or viewfinders to tell what you were taping. at best they would have a crosshair mounted on top. so how was the cameraman able to zoom that far in and maintain his centered picture on the "cockpit"?
indeed, by Apollo 15 they had started sending "remotely controlled" Silicon Intensifier Target tube cameras with color wheels on the missions. "The camera had a companion control unit to interpret and execute commands from Earth. This pair was officially known as the Ground Commanded Television Assembly, or GTCA." which means that ground control could be running them, but why would they ask the camera man to adjust the aperture and why would he go to a handheld shot?
Shooting the Apollo Moonwalks - A recollection of how it was done by Sam Russell
www.russelland.com...
[from the above linked page]
"There were no sliders on the console that one could delicately adjust. Just pushbuttons. If you wanted to pan left, you punched "PAN LEFT," and the camera would start panning at a fixed rate until you gave it a "PAN STOP." The same was true for tilt, iris, and zoom. There were two exposure modes, "PEAK" and "AVERAGE," and power "ON" and "OFF." That was it."
"The scenes we were about to capture and which we had planned for were a study in contrasts. Proper, automatic exposure control was a real issue. The astronaut's spacesuits were a highly reflective white, and the lunar soil is quite dark, reflecting an average 7% of sunlight."
"With the experience of Apollo 14, we questioned specifications and began the accurate modeling of lunar scenes. Our SIT camera sensor, with its silicon target, was prone to blooming in overexposed areas. We couldn't tolerate the reappearance of Casper. Accurate setting of highlight exposure was essential. The modeling showed our need to revise the peak exposure mode so that the camera set proper exposure for even the distant image of an astronaut. It was a touchy call, as we didn't want glints from shiny surfaces to control exposure."
Comparison of Measured LM/EVA Link Transmission Losses on Apollo 15 with Predicted Values:
history.nasa.gov...
.
[edit on 8-5-2007 by JUDGECAL]
[edit on 8-5-2007 by JUDGECAL]
[edit on 8-5-2007 by JUDGECAL]
was it possible to communicate via radio or VHS TV with the earth on the farside/darkside of the moon in realtime? i suppose you could relay a VHF signal off of the CM to earth. but in 1971 on Apollo 15 they were having comms loss from the near side at Hadley Rille even with the relay.
also, the Lunar TV cams didn't have monitors or viewfinders to tell what you were taping. at best they would have a crosshair mounted on top. so how was the cameraman able to zoom that far in and maintain his centered picture on the "cockpit"?
indeed, by Apollo 15 they had started sending "remotely controlled" Silicon Intensifier Target tube cameras with color wheels on the missions. "The camera had a companion control unit to interpret and execute commands from Earth. This pair was officially known as the Ground Commanded Television Assembly, or GTCA." which means that ground control could be running them, but why would they ask the camera man to adjust the aperture and why would he go to a handheld shot?
Shooting the Apollo Moonwalks - A recollection of how it was done by Sam Russell
www.russelland.com...
[from the above linked page]
"There were no sliders on the console that one could delicately adjust. Just pushbuttons. If you wanted to pan left, you punched "PAN LEFT," and the camera would start panning at a fixed rate until you gave it a "PAN STOP." The same was true for tilt, iris, and zoom. There were two exposure modes, "PEAK" and "AVERAGE," and power "ON" and "OFF." That was it."
"The scenes we were about to capture and which we had planned for were a study in contrasts. Proper, automatic exposure control was a real issue. The astronaut's spacesuits were a highly reflective white, and the lunar soil is quite dark, reflecting an average 7% of sunlight."
"With the experience of Apollo 14, we questioned specifications and began the accurate modeling of lunar scenes. Our SIT camera sensor, with its silicon target, was prone to blooming in overexposed areas. We couldn't tolerate the reappearance of Casper. Accurate setting of highlight exposure was essential. The modeling showed our need to revise the peak exposure mode so that the camera set proper exposure for even the distant image of an astronaut. It was a touchy call, as we didn't want glints from shiny surfaces to control exposure."
Comparison of Measured LM/EVA Link Transmission Losses on Apollo 15 with Predicted Values:
history.nasa.gov...
.
[edit on 8-5-2007 by JUDGECAL]
[edit on 8-5-2007 by JUDGECAL]
[edit on 8-5-2007 by JUDGECAL]
Found the Apollo17 images of the area: links to NASA for originals
www.lpi.usra.edu...
www.lpi.usra.edu...
Judge for yourself what it is
Edit: Dont forget, this thing is probably 1.5km/0.93mile long.
[edit on 8/5/2007 by Cygnific]
www.lpi.usra.edu...
www.lpi.usra.edu...
Judge for yourself what it is
Edit: Dont forget, this thing is probably 1.5km/0.93mile long.
[edit on 8/5/2007 by Cygnific]
excellent research, well done!
Originally posted by Cygnific
Found the Apollo17 images of the area[edit on 8/5/2007 by Cygnific]
Good find Cygnific. Unfortunately I don't think those pictures really help or hurt the case for the original video. What do you think?
On another note, where can one find footage from the Apollo 15 and Apollo 17? The first part of the video is just far too convincing.
On another note, where can one find footage from the Apollo 15 and Apollo 17? The first part of the video is just far too convincing.
Originally posted by Postal76
Good find Cygnific. Unfortunately I don't think those pictures really help or hurt the case for the original video. What do you think?
On another note, where can one find footage from the Apollo 15 and Apollo 17? The first part of the video is just far too convincing.
I dont know if it helps or hurts the case, the "proof" is that there appears to be something there. I believe the first footage of the movie is real, now i just have to find footage of Apollo15/17 and compare, and that is the biggest problem sofar.
Edit: Is this subject (about the thing in the hole) ever mentioned anywhere else? I never seen this before until this topic started.
[edit on 8/5/2007 by Cygnific]
Originally posted by Quasar
Where are all the images from SMART-1?
SMART 1
Or did it "crash" before it took any.
www.esa.int... Nothing to get exited about though, the lack of 'real' highres pictures is sad to say the least, it is as good, or bad as 30 years ago..
Edit: I send ESA a email of why they put those poor examples on their website and claim they have high tech photo equipment.
[edit on 8/5/2007 by Cygnific]
NASA didn't land of the moon. But they beat the Russians. Funny things do funny things to the unsuspecting, professionally trained personnel who have
been obliged to carry out such a fantasy NASA mission. Armstrong had some trouble dealing with it all amongst himself.
Dallas
Dallas
Originally posted by Dallas
NASA didn't land of the moon. But they beat the Russians. Funny things do funny things to the unsuspecting, professionally trained personnel who have been obliged to carry out such a fantasy NASA mission. Armstrong had some trouble dealing with it all amongst himself.
Dallas
Impressive statement there Dallas, you want to tell us why they didn't land? No wait, why not make your own topic to why they never landed, so we can discuss that there? Your post is noted as Movie equals fake because Nasa never landed on the moon..
Hello, here's a zoom of nasa www.lpi.usra.edu...
Compared with one from retiredafb.
After hours spent on the job (efficent zooming was VERY difficult) i can say for sure that the ship's area is blurried and underdetailed: don't know why but it is.
[edit on 9-5-2007 by mystr]
[edit on 9-5-2007 by mystr]
Compared with one from retiredafb.
After hours spent on the job (efficent zooming was VERY difficult) i can say for sure that the ship's area is blurried and underdetailed: don't know why but it is.
[edit on 9-5-2007 by mystr]
[edit on 9-5-2007 by mystr]
Those pictures are so similar, its stupifying. The original Apollo 15 image definately shows some structure that is similar to a flying object. Even
looking at it as if you know its a rock, it still has that shape. The slight reflection on the "window" is baffling too. I wish I hadn't seen
that youtube video before I saw this picture, because it adds a bias that is hard to let go. You can tell the Apollo "20" image was taken at a
slightly different angle, and it looks so close to the 15 image its crazy. I have used up many hours of my time analyzing the images, the video, the
audio, everything. I just wish we had better imaging of the moon. I'm sure we do somewhere, its just a matter of accessing it, or hoping somebody
like Hoagland can round up enough cash to develop an imager that is publically owned and operated. We have such detailed maps, although obviously
touched up, of mars, and we're looking at that as a future base. The moon is our first stop, so you know they have very detailed imagery of it. An
orbit around the moon would be very low compared to an orbit around mars. I mean now that you think about it, the last time we did anything with the
moon was with the successful lunar prospector, after that SMART-1, but that supposedly failed. I don't know, I have wrapped this story around my
head since it surfaced, and I hate to see it die away like some potential mankind smashing threads here at ATS.
-Quasar
-Quasar
Interesting post, why are the images from the video from retiredafb resolution and detail higher than the images from nasa? Is there more to this
thread than previously thought?
I would think it would be difficult and time consuming (but not impossible) to add detail and resolution to existing video and images. The detail is not only on the ship, but everywhere, the surface and craters itself...
I would think it would be difficult and time consuming (but not impossible) to add detail and resolution to existing video and images. The detail is not only on the ship, but everywhere, the surface and craters itself...
Once while participating in a forum devoted to 3D rendering a saw a user post a picture he had made claimed it to be his finest production. People
ripped it up and told him how he had screwed it all up and gave him proper advice on how to make it look like a 'real' photograph. After all the
experts had their say, he posted the source of the picture. Turns out it was a real photograph.
The UFO community suffers from a dilemma, any picture that is to clear and 'real' looking is considered a fake for that reason alone.
It would be nice if those who lambaste this video as an obvious fake could post their credentials in graphic imaging and 3D rendering, just to help us determine if your opinion has any value.
Our culture teaches to live in two boxes; belief or disbelief. A wise person should be reluctant to commit to either.
The UFO community suffers from a dilemma, any picture that is to clear and 'real' looking is considered a fake for that reason alone.
It would be nice if those who lambaste this video as an obvious fake could post their credentials in graphic imaging and 3D rendering, just to help us determine if your opinion has any value.
Our culture teaches to live in two boxes; belief or disbelief. A wise person should be reluctant to commit to either.
Originally posted by greatlakes
Interesting post, why are the images from the video from retiredafb resolution and detail higher than the images from nasa? Is there more to this thread than previously thought?
I would think it would be difficult and time consuming (but not impossible) to add detail and resolution to existing video and images. The detail is not only on the ship, but everywhere, the surface and craters itself...
The images from retiredafb are supposedly taken from Apollo20 before decent. The Apollo 15 and 17 images lack alot of detail but, alot of detail that can be seen, allmost matches the "Apollo 20" pictures.. Maybe somebody with alot of time, good tools can recreate this, but why make more detail then needed anyway? I stil think the footage you see at the start of the movie, when it moves over craters Lutke and Delporte is real footage taken from either Apollo 15 or 17 or maybe 20, who knows
[edit on 10/5/2007 by Cygnific]
I think the most probable thing is that the author have satarted his works knowing the existence of the anomaly near the delporte crater.
But how he knew? And about the two who posted in youtube comments saying that they already heard about the ship? (one of them said he saw a still of the ship in 1992)
There's absolutely no other explaination. Otherwise some or all of his materials about the ship are true, but i have some doubts.
Sure is that, if it is a fake, the work behind it it's insane and denotes a disturbed personality or doubtful goals. My personal opinion is that the work to assemble the "apollo 20 video" had to be very very hard and took a lot of time, involving an entire team and not a single man, including high cost materials. Who have similar resouces? Universities? Tv/cine studios? Agencies? These are the questions to do.
Regarding the photos, it seems to me that the photo 3 it's simply the photo 2 with a rotation an some cropping, doesn't it seems to be so?
But in the end, why? Maybe the case of a pre-existent work like someone have supposed? (something like a graduating thesis) Or it's simply an hoax from people who haven't better things to do? I don't think so.
Here's a list of NASA images containing the anomaly:
www.lpi.usra.edu...
Apollo Image Atlas
Panoramic Image Catalog
Apollo 17, Revolution 62, Forward Facing Camera
Images AS17-P-2769 to AS17-P-2889
AS17-P-2801
AS17-P-2799
AS17-P-2799
--------------------------
www.lpi.usra.edu...
Apollo Image Atlas
Panoramic Image Catalog
Apollo 17, Revolution 62, Aft Facing Camera
Images AS17-P-2770 to AS17-P-2888
AS17-P-2806
---------------------------
www.lpi.usra.edu...
Apollo Image Atlas
Panoramic Image Catalog
Apollo 15, Revolution 38, Forward Facing Camera
Images AS15-P-9579 to AS15-P-9807
AS15-P-9625
----------------------------
www.lpi.usra.edu...
Apollo Image Atlas
Panoramic Image Catalog
Apollo 15, Revolution 38, Aft Facing Camera
Images AS15-P-9580 to AS15-P-9808
AS15-P-9630
AS15-P-9632
-----------------------
www.lpi.usra.edu...
Apollo Image Atlas
Metric Image Catalog
Apollo 15, Revolution 38
Images AS15-M-1560 to AS15-M-1703
AS15-M-1579
AS15-M-1580
AS15-M-1581
AS15-M-1582
AS15-M-1583
---------------------
www.lpi.usra.edu...
Apollo Image Atlas
Metric Image Catalog
Apollo 15, Revolution 23
Images AS15-M-0753 to AS15-M-0869
AS15-M-0763
AS15-M-0764
AS15-M-0765
AS15-M-0766
AS15-M-0767
-------------------------
www.lpi.usra.edu...
Apollo Image Atlas
Metric Image Catalog
Apollo 15, Revolution 27
Images AS15-M-0870 to AS15-M-1013
AS15-M-0895
AS15-M-0896
AS15-M-0897
AS15-M-0898
AS15-M-0899
-----------------------
www.lpi.usra.edu...
Apollo Image Atlas
Metric Image Catalog
Apollo 15, Revolution 33
Images AS15-M-1014 to AS15-M-1161
AS15-M-1037
AS15-M-1038
AS15-M-1039
AS15-M-1040
AS15-M-1041
-----------------------
www.lpi.usra.edu...
Apollo Image Atlas
Metric Image Catalog
Apollo 15, Revolution 34
Images AS15-M-1309 to AS15-M-1428
AS15-M-1333
AS15-M-1334
AS15-M-1335
----------------------
www.lpi.usra.edu...
Apollo Image Atlas
Metric Image Catalog
Apollo 15, Revolution 38
Images AS15-M-1560 to AS15-M-1703
AS15-M-1579
AS15-M-
But how he knew? And about the two who posted in youtube comments saying that they already heard about the ship? (one of them said he saw a still of the ship in 1992)
There's absolutely no other explaination. Otherwise some or all of his materials about the ship are true, but i have some doubts.
Sure is that, if it is a fake, the work behind it it's insane and denotes a disturbed personality or doubtful goals. My personal opinion is that the work to assemble the "apollo 20 video" had to be very very hard and took a lot of time, involving an entire team and not a single man, including high cost materials. Who have similar resouces? Universities? Tv/cine studios? Agencies? These are the questions to do.
Regarding the photos, it seems to me that the photo 3 it's simply the photo 2 with a rotation an some cropping, doesn't it seems to be so?
But in the end, why? Maybe the case of a pre-existent work like someone have supposed? (something like a graduating thesis) Or it's simply an hoax from people who haven't better things to do? I don't think so.
Here's a list of NASA images containing the anomaly:
www.lpi.usra.edu...
Apollo Image Atlas
Panoramic Image Catalog
Apollo 17, Revolution 62, Forward Facing Camera
Images AS17-P-2769 to AS17-P-2889
AS17-P-2801
AS17-P-2799
AS17-P-2799
--------------------------
www.lpi.usra.edu...
Apollo Image Atlas
Panoramic Image Catalog
Apollo 17, Revolution 62, Aft Facing Camera
Images AS17-P-2770 to AS17-P-2888
AS17-P-2806
---------------------------
www.lpi.usra.edu...
Apollo Image Atlas
Panoramic Image Catalog
Apollo 15, Revolution 38, Forward Facing Camera
Images AS15-P-9579 to AS15-P-9807
AS15-P-9625
----------------------------
www.lpi.usra.edu...
Apollo Image Atlas
Panoramic Image Catalog
Apollo 15, Revolution 38, Aft Facing Camera
Images AS15-P-9580 to AS15-P-9808
AS15-P-9630
AS15-P-9632
-----------------------
www.lpi.usra.edu...
Apollo Image Atlas
Metric Image Catalog
Apollo 15, Revolution 38
Images AS15-M-1560 to AS15-M-1703
AS15-M-1579
AS15-M-1580
AS15-M-1581
AS15-M-1582
AS15-M-1583
---------------------
www.lpi.usra.edu...
Apollo Image Atlas
Metric Image Catalog
Apollo 15, Revolution 23
Images AS15-M-0753 to AS15-M-0869
AS15-M-0763
AS15-M-0764
AS15-M-0765
AS15-M-0766
AS15-M-0767
-------------------------
www.lpi.usra.edu...
Apollo Image Atlas
Metric Image Catalog
Apollo 15, Revolution 27
Images AS15-M-0870 to AS15-M-1013
AS15-M-0895
AS15-M-0896
AS15-M-0897
AS15-M-0898
AS15-M-0899
-----------------------
www.lpi.usra.edu...
Apollo Image Atlas
Metric Image Catalog
Apollo 15, Revolution 33
Images AS15-M-1014 to AS15-M-1161
AS15-M-1037
AS15-M-1038
AS15-M-1039
AS15-M-1040
AS15-M-1041
-----------------------
www.lpi.usra.edu...
Apollo Image Atlas
Metric Image Catalog
Apollo 15, Revolution 34
Images AS15-M-1309 to AS15-M-1428
AS15-M-1333
AS15-M-1334
AS15-M-1335
----------------------
www.lpi.usra.edu...
Apollo Image Atlas
Metric Image Catalog
Apollo 15, Revolution 38
Images AS15-M-1560 to AS15-M-1703
AS15-M-1579
AS15-M-
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