Child snatched on holiday( new sightings and CCTV)

I realise this may not resonate with everyone but I think these parents need looking at more closely. They didn't just leave the missing kid alone while they went off for Dinner, they left all 3 toddlers alone! I mean come on! That's so not right, get a childminder these resorts all have them or eat earlier. Now they behaving all holier than though and remind me very much of Joanne Lees strange behaviour in the Peter Falconio case in Oz.

Yes this kind of thing goes on but it doesn't actually go on like this, snatched from your holiday chalet, snatched one kid when 3 were there for the taking. If it was that common the news would be full of other, similar, unsolved cases of kids snatched from holiday complexes. Kids go missing yes but rarely in these circumstances (unless anyone cares to put me right on that).

Plus they're so sure she is still in Europe when North Africa is and has been the home of the white slave trade for a long time.

These parents should get off the TV screens it's not helping them and to me at least they are coming accross as wannabe celebrities rather than the guilty neglectful parents they are. Can they have ever only left these kids alone once? Doesn't that make the snatch of the child so much more unlikely as a 'opportunity crime' surely they'd done it before on that very same vacation in order for someone to have noticed and acted.



[edit on 23-5-2007 by kickoutthejams]

[edit on 23-5-2007 by kickoutthejams]

Update:


1 of the 2 have been released,

A man and a women where taking in for questioning today,

Michaela Walczuch and Luis Antonio who is the estranged husband,
And in a little Twist Ms Walczuch is the lover of Robert Murat, who is the only suspect so far in the Maddy case,


Its not clear yet who was released and under what circumstance,

news.sky.com...

They were both released at 15:30, according to the Portuguese newspapers.

Michaela Walczuzch is also the partner of Robert Murat in their real-estate company.

Her husband,Luís António, is the responsible for the pools and the gardens of the Ocean Club resort.

Its just so fustraiting!
do you think these people have anything to do with it?


I cant work out if its clutching at staws or theres something in this,

?

It's SOP to investigate anyone who injects themselves into the investigation. Plus it was the press that tipped the police off. I think the UK press are wary of the Ian Huntley Soham case where he injected himself into the investigation and press.

Originally posted by asala
Its just so fustraiting!
do you think these people have anything to do with it?

I allways had the idea that this was more of a personal case than some sort of criminal network job.

If this was a criminal network job then the most common motives would be:
1 - ransom
2 - sell the child to ilegal adoption
3 - sell the child to the sex exploitation networks.

The first case is not very probable because there never was any ransom request, unless they aborted the ransom request when they saw that there was to much publicity around the case. I hope not, because then the consequences would be the killing of the child.

For the second and third possibilities, what I find strange is the fact that they would have left the other two children behind.

I don't know what else to think about this, there is allways the possibility that the parents are also involved, but I don't think that is the case.

Originally posted by kickoutthejams
Plus it was the press that tipped the police off.

What they usualy forget to say is that he was already being investigated when the journalist told the police

The police said that they are looking for a man that was seen in the night of the disappearance of Madeleine.

They are looking for a white man 1.70 to 1.75 m high, 35 to 40 years old, with the hair short at the front but long enough at the back to cover his neck.

He was wearing light coloured pants, a black jacket and black shoes.

He was seen with a girl that is supposed to be Madeleine.

The police also said to the man to present himself to the police.

[edit on 25/5/2007 by ArMaP]

heres a link on the above,

news.sky.com...

Chief Inspector Olegario Sousa, of the Policia Judiciaria, said the suspect was possibly carrying a child or an object that might have appeared to have been a child.

He appealed for the man, or anyone who knows about him, to come forward.

A Portuguese newspaper, "Correio da Manhã", says that the man and a woman that who were seen in Sagres photographing some children were identified and interviewed. They are Polish and were interviewed in Poland. The police did not found anything that could link them to the case.

The newspaper also says that the police investigated several boats that were in the Algarve at the time, specially those that were on the Lagos marina, some 10Km from where Madie disappeared. The marina is closed from 19:00 to 09:00 and has guards from a private security company.


A friend of Madeleine's parents said that she saw a man with a girl on his arms covered with a blanket in the night of Madie's disappearance, and her description of the man is the one that was published some days ago.


Today a video of Madie was published by her parents, showing her just before embarking in their flight to Portugal. The video can be seen on this Sky News page.

Today the parents of Madeleine McCann met the Pope in Rome, where he spent a short time with the British couple and blessed a photo of thier missing daughter.

Maddy's parents meet the Pope

As a parent of two young daughters myself, i have taken great interest in this story. Today though i have heard two sides to the public opinion relating to the McCann's search for thier daughter. Some i can understand, some i thought might be a bit insensitive, but when i thought about it, were just as understandable.

I'm posting this to ask opinions of the members here.

One view seems to be this. The parents are doing everything they can to highlight thier daughters dissapearance wherever they can in order to maximise the chances of her being found safe. Rightly so, i would do no less.

The Portugese police don't seem to be getting very far with the investigation, so the parents are taking matters into thier own hands, and are getting massive financial and emotional support along the way to do this.

This is great news for little Madeleine and her relatives.

Another view i have heard several times today on the tv is this...

Whilst it has been great that the awareness of missing children has been made much more prominent due to this case, how must the familes of other missing children, past and present be feeling right now?

Were they given hundreds of thousands of pounds to help look for thier children? Were they granted celebrity style status whilst being flown in private jets around the world to meet people like the Pope?

Would a single parent from a run down part of one of our cities who may have left her kids to go down the pub for a drink, be allowed this much support or would they be looking at a lot less support along with the constant threat of a criminal charge and social services banging on your door?

Again, i'm just asking for comments based on what i have heard on the news today.

Some people point to this being a case of, "How much money you have", or "Who you know". The McCann's are obviously not a couple of are short of cash being in the professions they are in. They obviously have either friends in high places, or they are able to generate a lot better media attention that most parents of missing children.

A few people have even commented on the fact that they are a religous family, and whether they are getting more leeway on this as a result of them bringing faith into everything they say and do in this investigation.

Personaly i think the religon comments are uncalled for. I am not religous in the slightest, but i can see why someone may use faith for support if they lose thier little one.

Then again, i can't remember all the other parents of missing children being given audiences with the queen or holy figures here.

I feel there is so much emotion, and indeed frustration attached to this case that it is stirring a mixed reaction from the public. I like to think that it is still mainly positive, and maybe there seems more attention to Madeleines case because there simply is, more attention being brought to it.

I hear people almost afraid to say it, but are asking whether or not the McCann's will face charges after this is all over. Would the police be advised not to due to the publics attatchment to the McCann's now, or would letting them off be a kick in the teeth to other parents who have been charged with neglect after they left thier kids alone in the past when something has gone wrong?

So what do people think here? I'd imagine that like me, most would do exactly the same as the McCann's are doing given the chance if thier baby was missing. Then again, as i have seen today, there are many mixed reactions to all this.

I would dearly love to see this all come to a happy ending, but it is a few weeks now and nothing. I hope that the visit with the Pope today may help someone in the world who knows where Maddy is, to speak out against her captors.

I would also dearly love to see the parents of the next child that goes missing, to be afforded absoloutely no less support and financial help that the parents of Maddy are getting. If not, thats when there will be a lot of questions.

All children are priceless and need as much support as we can give, regardless of class, colour or background.

Whatever happens, i know it has made me appreciate my kids more than i thought i ever could.

CX.

CX you are so right,

At this moment in time i don't know what to think, I can see why they are going around trying to make all aware in the hopes of finding her,

But she has 2 other children, If that was me i would want to be with them more than anything else in the world right now,

I'm not sure why both of them have to go, surly one could stay with the children?.

I'm not sure they will face charges, and i don't believe they should, I think they where careless for leaving there child but what worse punishment could you receive than your child being taken,

I feel so much for the mothers and fathers of all the other missing children who really have not had all this attention or money,

It is really is hard to put all this in perspective,

I was watching the TV the other day when they went to the Shrine and people where holding there children up for them to kiss, It was almost odd

I hope with all my heart that she is found, And i hope this at least will bring light to other children missing,

I would love to see any spare money form this get used to help fund others,

Who knows maybe little maddy could be the face?.

So hard to know what to think...

[edit on 30-5-2007 by asala]

I always thought that this case was being treated in a way that was too much like a soap-opera or a reality-show.

I don't have any children, so I would not pretend to know what I would feel in a case like this, but I think that Maddie's parents are using all the possibilities to spread the word of their daughter's disappearance but they are also behaving in a way that makes me think that they are enjoying (like if it was a compensation for the disappearance of their daughter) the excessive media circus around them and the millions offered as a reward.

Here in Portugal the previous case of a disappearing child that got much media presence (but nothing like this) was 9 years ago, when a 11 years old boy disappeared. He was never found and his mother now got a web-page like the one for Maddie. One of the things she said was that she was sad that she didn't had that kind of publicity to her case and that could have been the reason for her son never been found.

Why has this been such a media favourite? I don't know, maybe because it happened on a place where they were supposed to relax and that everyone considered safe (and Portugal is one of the most safe countries) and because they were not Portuguese.

Portuguese people have a tendency to see these kind of things as their destiny, their "fado", and usually try to fight it but they let themselves down just because it was "their fate and this would have to happen".

Religiously, there isn't a difference to other Portuguese cases, people in Portugal are usually religious and Catholic. Could this be a reason for the different treatment the British press gave to the case? I don't know.

Let's hope this ends soon with the safe return of little Maddie to her home.

Madeleine and other missing Children

Resort location

Hi,

Good initiative asala! I think your thread in ATS that has many Members and other Users not registered but that like to read and see the content, could help a little bit, at least trough divulgation of the subject, information and photos.

ArMaP has already doing a good job on updating the Members. Here in Portugal that is a strange and uncommon case, around 10 children disappear in the last 15 years in all the country, and only today I found this thread. Also in Spain the case is regularly in the news, and they liked the good job done by the Portuguese Police to recover an Eastern Europe 11-year-old girl that was kidnapped in Spain almost at the same time.

About the lack of official news, that is to do with Justice Secrecy, in a middle of an investigation the police do not gives information, already crustas has given that information, but in this case they made an exception, and nominated a PR (first case in Portugal!).

On the CCTV cameras, they are mandatory by law in certain cases, like Night and Disco Clubs, but in a resort that is only internal decision, maybe that law will change in a near future. Everybody should choose carefully theyr resort/hotel for vacatios, and take care of his children.

I am trying not to justify the careless of Madeleine’s Parents, but because that is not normal to happen in Portugal, and if you go to Algarve you will se, sometimes people do not close their home door because of lower criminality. Ok, I also have an apartment there, I close the door and always take care of my son, but the ambient is pretty secure in general terms. I remember that an American friend to tell me that she could travel at night alone without any problem and that she could do that in the States. That feeling of security was strange for her.

deaman88 has made some points, and I agree, he need to change somethings in the law and Police procedures, here they need to wait 48 hours to start the investigation, and anyone only needs 1 or 1,5 hours to reach the border with Spain and 5 hours (by land) to go to Morocco (the last par is by boat, I remember my vacations there, and by the border is impossible to pass because you need a VISA and many papers!).

The English press made a big case, trying to explain that the Portuguese Police was doing a bad job, but the family always says the reverse!

O Dutch woman swears to see Madelaine in Morocco with a guy of 30’s, but after investigation no news.

One strange fact is that Madeleine’s father refused to reply when questioned if he knows the Real State guy that was enquired by the police and is now in domiciliary prison and is an alleged paedophiliac. Imo also Madeleine known the person ho took her, if not she would scrim and would not open the door.

Previously posted by ArMaP, in Portuguese and in a Goole translation but acceptable, this part clarifies a little the situation, I added my “translation skills” (sorry for any inconvenience):

“Revenge in the origin of the abduction - The Judiciary Policy already will have the mobile of the crime and insists on the British participants. The abductors had very early marked the small Maddie before the family leaved England and the Police Inspectors believe that the girl was taken by vengeance ten days ago from the Ocean Club’s resort in the beach “Praia da Luz” (Beach of Light) - something related and unclear in the past of Madeleine’s Parents.” [CM 2007-05-13 - 13:00:00]

More recent news here.

Portugal’s news in English updated regularly here and here (all country and web cams).

I will add a different photo, a video from Madelaine’s Parents (in Portuguese and English) and some sites also with information on other missing Children.

Rui Pedro’s mother was with McCann couple, Rui Pedro is also a Portuguese missing Children.

Madeleine

Madeleine’s Parents in Rome

Madeleine’s Parents message

Rui Pedro (today he will be 20 years old)

Sites with missing Children:
. Madeleine Mccann
. Portuguese Police
. HTML for Portugual’s Missing Children (universal/standard HTML, includes Madeleine)
. Interpol

I hope Madeleine soon or later could return safe to home.

Other threads with related subjects:
. www.abovepolitics.com...
. www.abovetopsecret.com...
. www.abovetopsecret.com...
. www.abovetopsecret.com...

brotherthebig.

Great post Brother

One thing though, the real estate guy you refer to here....

Originally posted by brotherthebig

One strange fact is that Madeleine’s father refused to reply when questioned if he knows the Real State guy that was enquired by the police and is now in domiciliary prison and is an alleged paedophiliac.

Is this the website designer who worked with Robert Murrat, or am i thinking of someone else? Could you clarify any details of this guy as this was the first i'd heard of this?

Where did you hear that this guy was in prison and an alleged paedophile?

Thanks,

CX.

I glad to hear that the police are even taking seriously any clairvoyant visions of Madeleine....

As the investigation continues, police in Portugal are trawling through hoards of emails and messages from clairvoyants who claim they know where Madeleine is.

The Policia Judiciara (PJ) said they have two dossiers, 8cm thick, of apparent visions and sightings of the little girl.

PJ spokesman Olegario Sousa said each clairvoyant claim was being taken seriously.

Source: McCann's return to Portugal

Some people won't put much hope in clairvoyancy, but there are some damn good clairvoyants out there and if they can be of help then what have they got to lose?

CX.


[edit on 31/5/07 by CX]

Real State guy

Murat house

Hi,

Sorry not to be clear, I will try to complement and reply to CX question.

The Real State guy, Robert Murat (or Murrat) has a business associated and she is German and lives in Praia da Luz, also the Police interrogate her, their company name is Romigen.

Robert Murat was with the police translating some conversations for English people, but when the English reporters arrived in Algarve/Portugal they say that the guy was a paedophilian known in England (manly by Lori Campell from "Sunday Mirror") and he changed his behaviour and wont any more with the police an popular helping in the search. Has some ATS Members already said Portuguese people (voluntaries) are helping in searches.

About the web designer and is IT company, next door to a Coffee shop, also was reported by the coffee people that no one went to that company and was the first time they ear that there exist a company there so is like a phantom company. The PCs (from the IT company) are now under investigation, the police say that all data on the hard disk was totally erased (strange no?) but they will try to recover that (there exists software that recover hard disk data even after formatting!). The web designer at the moment is only a testimony.

All that info I saw on Portuguese TV and from my family seeing Portuguese TV (from the four open channels we have) and reporting to me (In Spain I cant get all the Portuguese TV channels, the Satellite channels are different but sometimes with the same news). Maybe another Portuguese ATS member saw the same TV news?

Last video from Madeleine Last video from Madeleine


Names and some facts (various Portuguese sources):
. Robert Murat (in Portuguese news) or Murrat, 33 years old, UK citizen, has Real State connections to the resort Ocean Club, is divorced and his ex-wife lives in England with their daughter 4 years old, his father is Portuguese.
. Jennifer Murat, 79 years old, UK citizen, mother of Robert Murat, they live together in a house with a garden in Lagos 150 meters away from the Madeleine’s resort Ocean Club, she collected testimonies from people in the street by her initiative
. in Murat house, some PCs, mobiles and blankets (bed cloths) are confiscated by police for investigation, also the Scientific Police collected hair, sweat residues and cloths fibres for analysis.
. Swing practice (couple exchange) from the McMcCann appears to be false and that information came from an English blog.


Praia da Luz postcard

Parents with the Pope

Madeleine on Second Life

For other humanitarian NGO Portuguese initiatives please see this thread.

Portuguese-English automatic translation tools for web pages and text:
. babelfish.altavista.com...
. www.google.com...

References in Portuguese (just for cheeking):
. sic.sapo.pt... (Robert photo and many videos in Portuguese/English)
. expresso.clix.pt... (last video and related news updated regularly)
. expresso.clix.pt...
. ultimahora.publico.clix.pt...
. ultimahora.publico.clix.pt...
. ultimahora.publico.clix.pt...
. ultimahora.publico.clix.pt...
. ultimahora.publico.clix.pt...
. www.agenciafinanceira.iol.pt... (statement from our [the Portuguese] President Cavaco Silva)
. www.agenciafinanceira.iol.pt...
. www.agenciafinanceira.iol.pt...
. www.correiodamanha.pt...

brotherthebig.

Mystery DNA found in Madeleines room which does not belong to her or her family. Police have sent the sample off to the national forensics lab for testing.

Mystery DNA found in Madeleines room

Could this not be one of a hundred people who have used that apartment in the past for holidays?

CX.

The police has now more than 200 ADN samples collected from the McCann's room, from the house and car of Robert Murat, the house of Sergey Malinka and from many people that could be involved (friends of the McCann's, workers from the resort, Murat's partner in the real estate company and her husband, etc.
Source


The police said that they could not deny the news about the ADN found on the room. The ADN, apparently, does not belong to any member of the McCann family or any suspect.

A friend of the McCann family suggested that they use the help of Diane Lazarus, a known (apparently) psychic. The British police has already given their authorization (if it is needed, I find it a bit strange that she needs to be authorized).
Source

All sources in Portuguese, sorry.

According to "The People", inteligence agents have found conversations in Arab about a "little blonde girl". They also have conversations about the meeting of Madeleine's parents with the Pope.

They also heard repeated references to a German man, and discussions about Morocco, Holland and Germany.

These conversations were made with a "pay-as-you-go" Spanish phone and detected by the "Echelon" spy system.

Sour ce

HI All,

Well, I have read all the comments, and the most recent ones talk again about the consequences of leaving a child (or three) under no supervision whatsoever.

Let's try to keep focussed shall we? MAddy is still missing, we need to see her returned. Thats all.

As for the comments made by CX, I commend you in your 'devil's advocate' approach to the 'home alone' frenzy that is baying for blood right now. DOn't people get the fact that your child being abducted is punishment enough? So many parents would have to admit to doing this once or twice, I wouldn't do it, but in a holiday type scenario, you are out, enjoying yourself, kids are asleep, the resort is safe, so what the hey?

You wouldn't think twice, if you weere so confident and happy. What seems painfully clear is that they were being stalked. I think that the neighbours should be reinterviewd, and that the media ought to be sending the message to all regions of the world, in the vain hope that someone knows something.

Thank the powers that be to have accepted psychic help, or clairvoyants of repute, this will help a great deal I feel. Here are some examples:

'Psychic helps probe plot to kill Australian PM'

news.scotsman.com...

The Diane Lazarus site:

www.dianelazarus.co.uk...

And finally this one - psychics who help find children...I wonder if they would help find Madeleine?

www.missingpersonproject.org...