$1-a-litre gas is here to stay, so get used to it, experts say

Originally posted by Majic
The Good News...

...is that higher prices for gas and oil make alternative energy sources more attractive.

That doesn't mean the transitions will be painless or pleasant, but the bottom line is the bottom line, and as fossil fuels become more expensive, those "wacky" alternatives start looking a lot less wacky.

In the short term I think everyone else's comments are correct, but I agree with you Majic. I believe this will force the hand of many alternative energy sources.

I also think with the advent of the internet their will be no suppressing the alternative fuel source when it hits the market. I would bet Zero Point energy will be the way to go, if someone can discover the process.

Originally posted by khunmoon


but somehow mass-transportation doesn't seems to be affected proportionally. A long haul air ticket costs the same as 6-7 years ago.

I'm not sure how it is where you are, but most mass-transport companies have a contract with a fuel provider and the price per litre is set in that contract for the contracts duration. That's why it may seem unproportional when prices go up initially. Once the contract has to get renewed that's when you'll see the price go up for the service.

There's always some sort of excuse to raise gas prices, a hurricane, a fire at a refinery, the situation in the middle east. I've even read that one of the reasons that prices went up was due to "fear" that the U.S. will attack Iran. This is absurd. Governments will not do anything to stop this either because they get a hefty chunk of proceeds from gas sales.

While i dont wish to be bashing any certain country here , i would just like to point out that us lot in Europe well no sorry the UK , We have as has been stated been paying 90.9 to 99.9 per litre of UNLEADED!

Now if u want full fat petrol u are looking to pay over 101.9p per litre and diesel well just add whatever the forcourt likes over the unleaded price!

This is all a farce and were fed up with the fact that the majority of what we pay is TAX , 75% to be exact !! Its a greedy goverment.

BTW how much do u guys over the pond pay for a pack of 20 cigs ??
the average on those here is £5.50 .. i think thats nearly $10 for 20 smokes . Rip off britain is in full swing and ive gone off topic sorry!!

Off topic but just had to reply, it's about $10 for a pack of smokes here in Canada. The tax on gas here on average is about 35%.

I just can't figure the $1 a liter to $3 buck US out.

All I know is $20.00 us get me 6.71 gallions of gas where I live.

But what really, really me off is that the oil companies are making more money than they ever even dreamed possible. They are all showing record profits. I would too, if I owned McDonalds, and started charging people $15 a big Mac, if I knew they had to have it to live.

[edit on 3-5-2007 by Royal76]

Originally posted by InSanE1
Off topic but just had to reply, it's about $10 for a pack of smokes here in Canada. The tax on gas here on average is about 35%.

Wow are you guys ever getting ripped off. You can buy a pack of Marlboro here for $3. About $2.75 if you buy a carton. Generic brands are about $1.95 a pack. Gas is still about $2.80 a gallon in Florida.

Ah.. but I remember when gas was 99 cents a gallon, a pack of cigs $1.20 and a can of beer cost 50 cents...

Damn I feel your pain.
Believe it or not I filled up my tank with 75 cents.
Its a small tank only around 40 liters of gasoline.
By the way I am in Venezuela.

by the way cigarettes are around 75 cents, Beer around 25 cents per small bottle 20cc.
Bottle of rum (good one) 3 usd.
I could go on and on but I would probably rune your day.

well my bloody day is well n truely ruined!!!

I think it is around $2 to the pound and it would cost me £45.00 to fill my tank and as im a driving instructor i go through £30 a day in fuel !! and thats about 40 odd litres a tank full !

i guess its time to try to become a US citizen !!!

well its got to be better than being a ripped off English slave !!

Originally posted by Majic
The Good News...

...is that higher prices for gas and oil make alternative energy sources more attractive.

That doesn't mean the transitions will be painless or pleasant, but the bottom line is the bottom line, and as fossil fuels become more expensive, those "wacky" alternatives start looking a lot less wacky.

I also agree. And even if it does not force the alternative fuels into the forefront, it will force people to drive less. Think of it as a sin tax or luxury tax. Those who can afford to pay $5.00, 6.00, 8.00 a gallon, good for them. The rest of us can take a bus, ride a motorcycle/scooter, walk or ride a bike. I personally drive very little and have to fill up only once every two weeks, but if the price goes up, I will stop carpooling the 3 miles to work and take the bus. It will make my commute 3 times longer, but cost me way less. I think about $4.259/ gallon is my tipping point, so I expect to be on the bus by Christmas.

Originally Posted by Realtruth
I would bet Zero Point energy will be the way to go, if someone can discover the process.

Didn't someone find a Zero Point energy source in the Antarctic a few years back?


ps- Cigs here $5.59 for good 'ol Camel Lights. I stocked up on a recent trip to Arkansas for half that.

Originally posted by WellSee
Think of it as a sin tax or luxury tax. Those who can afford to pay $5.00, 6.00, 8.00 a gallon, good for them. The rest of us can take a bus, ride a motorcycle/scooter, walk or ride a bike.

It's really easy to live without a car if you live in a city. Both my sons do and neither own a car. If they want to go on a trip, like coming home, they just rent one.

Coming home is going to the boonies for them, because I live in a small village hours away from even a medium sized city and more hours to distant big cities. Does the rising cost of gasoline have effects on rural areas?

You bet, because riding a bicycle 150 miles to visit parents can be a bit of a drag. How about the cost of trucking food to the grocery stores in those outlying places? Every bit of our infrastructure depends on oil and gas... road maintenance, policing, garbage collection, ambulances, whatever.

Everything is going to get more expensive and I do mean everything. I can ride my bike all the time, but my brocolli and carrots are going to double in price too.

That's what scares me more than anything... inflation and rising interest rates to the levels we saw in the '80's are not something I'd like to see again and that's what doubling the price of gas might do. If income grows with the cost of living, fine, but if it doesn't then people are going to lose homes.

BTW... I spent my day hitting the trails on my mountain bike and didn't burn a drop of gas.

Originally posted by masqua

Everything is going to get more expensive and I do mean everything. I can ride my bike all the time, but my brocolli and carrots are going to double in price too.

Is that going to happen the same way grapes became outrageously expensive in the 1970's after protests by the UFW paid farm workers decent wages?;0

Everybody makes a tradeoff for where they decide to live. Mine is constant sirens and city noise in exchange for a quick communte to work and city life. Yours is peace and serenety for higher prices on your brussel sprouts (maybe).

Let's hope for everyone's sake that Majic is right and altrernative fuels will become avbailable.

In portugal you pay 1,35€/liter (95 unlead) or US $1,75.

For 1 gallon the price would be $6,73 (US). The price is increasing every 15 days.

If gas prices in US where like in most of Europe, US would have already declared bankrupt.

US citizens are still very lucky.

My old car was a duel fuel , it ran on petrol and LPG .

LPG at that time (2yrs ago) was 39p per litre , i have since noticed that that has now gone up to nearly 50p per litre .

It was a good fuel to run on but the car weighed a damn site more than it should of and performance was down when running on LPG.

Our government is suposed to be green but raising tax on this fuel shows they are not...

A question... Did or did not Ford motor company design and build a ceramic engine that ran on water ? I heard they did but the idea somehow vanished!

Rather strange that!

Originally posted by WellSee
Everybody makes a tradeoff for where they decide to live. Mine is constant sirens and city noise in exchange for a quick communte to work and city life. Yours is peace and serenety for higher prices on your brussel sprouts (maybe).

It's not that I wish to seem argumentative, but where do you think the food that shows up in your grocery store comes from? If everyone were to choose to live in the city because it's convenient, then who would plant the wheat and corn?

And farming uses... yup... lots and lots of gas.

You see, the little villages are the urban centers for farms and the prairies (for instance) are the type of place where driving is less a priviledge and more a necessity. It's the same here.

In relation to that, I see this as another threat to already bankrupt farmers and the empowerment of factory farming. During the '90's I watched farm houses bulldozed and barns burnt to make room for the gigantic superfarms owned and operated by international corporations. In this particular area where I live there is a German company eating up most of the good land.

I'm really very happy that there are also many small Mennonite farms taking over the land which the 'Big Boys' don't want. If the multinationals ever decide to 'pull up stakes' and go home, then my little village can still get food, but I wonder what will be on the shelves in the city?

First off, let me say again that I hope Majic is right. Nothing would make me happier

Originally posted by masqua

It's not that I wish to seem argumentative, but where do you think the food that shows up in your grocery store comes from? If everyone were to choose to live in the city because it's convenient, then who would plant the wheat and corn?

I know exactly where the veggies at the farmers markets and the fish at the fish market come from. There is usually a sign with the name of the farm right above it.

In relation to that, I see this as another threat to already bankrupt farmers and the empowerment of factory farming. During the '90's I watched farm houses bulldozed and barns burnt to make room for the gigantic superfarms owned and operated by international corporations.

And that totally sucks for those farming families. But, if someone can do it better and cheaper, they will prevail. That is what stops the cost of egplants from rising as fast as gas. Again, it sucks, but life will go on for them and their families. I don't hear many people complaining that there are no more family run blacksmith shops.

You see, the little villages are the urban centers for farms and the prairies (for instance) are the type of place where driving is less a priviledge and more a necessity. It's the same here.

I 100% know what you mean. I grew up 12 miles outside of a very small town. It went our property, a dirt road, and then a cornfield. We would have to run and close the windows real fast every time a car would come speading down the dirt road so that the dust did not settle in the house. We used to say we were going into town and it was something we looked forward to all week (I feel like a Steinbeck novel here).
I even worked on a Family farm for a couple of years detassling corn. That sucked out loud. Ahh the good old days.

Oh yeah, back to the gas costs. the price will go up and everybody will deal with the slight rise in the price of veggies. I say go ahead and raise the price to bring in A: Possibly alternative fuels and B: a huge reduction of greenhouse gasses.

Unfortunately alternative energies are not ready for prime time ( and I don't think they will be in the short term).Specially for cars.And the hybrids on the market today are no more cleaner than the gasoline cars.Wait until we will have to dispose of the batteries in them
I wish i could use a bicycle or a moped for transportation,but it's just not possible in my case. We can discuss it until we get blue in the face.They keep us by the balls,and that's that.Just less driving,i don't have any other idea.
But Masqua is totaly right.Is the price of food(and anything else,less important) that goes up.That is truly scary.

Originally posted by Bursuc
Unfortunately alternative energies are not ready for prime time ( and I don't think they will be in the short term).Specially for cars.

Good point. I can't see energy efficient cars, tractor trailers, jet transports or farmers tractors or anything else being the norm in anything under 5 years at the very least.

Now, just to make matters a little worse in Canada, I read this...

link

Oil and gas companies operating in British Columbia have been asked to prepare for possible flooding due to extensive snow pack levels this year.

The Oil and Gas Commission has issued a flood alert warning northeast B.C. companies to have emergency response plans in place.

The commission wants the companies to perform checks and identify pipelines, facilities, wells, and production tanks that could be threatened by flooding, landslides or debris movement.

Ominous news, really, because BC is already paying the highest prices for gas at over $1.20 per litre.

Unless there are technologies that have not been publicized, I'm convinced that there are no viable alternatives to oil, only supplements.

As I see it, the grim reality is that more and more people are going to find it beyond their means to drive their cars in the way that we have become accustomed.

When this happens, we will find alternative forms of transportation, such as bicycles, motorbikes, mass transit, or the old reliable shoe leather.

There's a lot of talk about solar, wind, hydrogen, vegetable oils, and ethanol, but as yet these are just possibilities, not actual alternatives.

We stand, I fear, at the end of an era.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
We stand, I fear, at the end of an era.

Oh, so true and well said at that.

THAT is exactly where we are and I'm afraid that we'll all be changing our habits. Here where I live, it's nothing to see a horse and buggy pattering along the side of the highway.

Pretty soon, that may be ALL going down that blacktop, with the exception, of course, of Montsanto Corp trucks hauling their crops to market.

*shudder*



[edit on 3/5/07 by masqua]