NIST says no pancake

let's put an end to the bickering.
Why?

Since I have to tell you something.
I had the same suspicion as Esdad.

I really thought for more then a year, that when Bsbray11, Griff, Pootie and some more members with a constructional engineering or other type of scientific background, talked about the tilt AND rotation of the top part of that tower, that they meant a rotation AROUND an Y-axis, combined with a tilt at the X-axis.

I have spend time on finding video evidence, several times, for that additional rotational movement around an Y-axis, without result.
I have also mentioned several times myself, that what -I- saw was a sort of tilting, as pictured by a "hinge". That should have been clear enough to understand, combined with the accompanying photo's of the top tilt.

But you call it a rotation AND a tilt.

For me, that are two words to describe the same thing, the tilt of a whole portion of the building I saw happening, to one side, the left side, in that photo.

--------------------------

Can we now discuss how on earth it was possible to observe the TOP SECTION as a WHOLE, unchanged (visible, not obscured by smoke) part of the building, tilt to one side, if not more than 90 % of the core columns were totally broken?
If not so, then we would have seen considerable deformation of the corners and the sides of that top section, even end parts of trusses sticking out of broken windows, and the antenna mast would have been tilted over under a sharp angle to the top floor.
Because then, the remaining stiff core columns would have been forced to bend all together to the left side in that photo, and would have snapped, propelling the connected, also snapping off, trusses, away from the bending core columns.
The core columns on the far left would have snapped first, then followed by the more central ones.

That means, that nearly all core columns must have failed suddenly, not slowly over time, since then we would have seen sagging of many floors and much more buckling of perimeter parts.
And NIST found just a few (2 or 3) minor bended top core columns.

Subsequently we have to address the sudden crushing of that whole top section, after it reached a certain angle of tilt.
As if someone pushed a button, and, "Poooof", the whole section dissipated into dust, which after that, can not exempt by far enough force on the still firmly standing remaining part of the tower, to crush it in about 13 seconds.

I still keep thinking about a thermobaric device, like the Riconosciuto bomb, a secret government project I wrote about very early some years ago, what was used PERHAPS to turn that top section to dust.
Hidden in the middle of that top section.
This device has been described as a semi-nuclear device, with the same comparable extreme demolition power.
It was first suggested as the -real- bomb which destructed the Alfred P. Murrah building in Oklahoma City.

As said before, I am convinced and have proved without any doubt in my mind (proof me wrong if you dare), that the LDEO 9/11 seismic reports show similar seismic events preceding all three tower collapses, which can only be explained as explosions, because of their shear magnitude.

So we are left with finding a believable, logical explanation HOW they pulled it of.

NB: "THEY" can be anybody, that picture is still a shady one.
But certainly not solely a few Arabs, with no sophisticated backing by one or more black-ops.

Originally posted by esdad71
Structural integrity? Data integrity? Do you have any idea what those mean. As an architect or a systems engineer.

forget about the definition of structural integrity. look at the reality.

let's just look at structural integrity.
you imply that if a part of the building has lost it's structural intergrity, then the whole building has lost it.
that would be true, if the area in question was the base of the building. but, 'as it stands', the weakened areas were ONLY at the tops of the buildings.

as a guy who has worked around heavy steel, with cranes swinging long beams weighing several tons, i will tell you this. angular momentum is not just a theory, it's a fact. and resistance is also a fact. and the PATH OF LEAST RESISTANCE is the path that moving objects follow.

with all that in mind, once the top of the tower begins to tilt on the mysterious instantly created pivot, it is almost impossible to stop that much weight from moving in the direction that it has begun to move. when the tilted section stops rotating, and starts falling straight down, it HAS to be because the pivot has disappeared, and the downward force from gravity is much greater than the force of the momentum built up in the sideways motion(although, the 'cap' is probably still pivoting, the motion is less perceptible because the downward velocity is now much greater than the sideways velocity).

next concept: the original pivot obviously supported the entire weight of the top (mysteriously) 'broken off' cap of the building. this means that once the top starts to tilt, one half of the building gets more an more weight as the cap leans, and the other side of the tower gets RELIEVED of it's burden. in fact, with only a FRACTION of a degree of tilt, the load is COMPLETELY REMOVED from an entire half of the building, and that weight is now supported SOLEY by the core, and the perimeter on the side that the cap is tilting towards. this immediatley begs the question, "what was responsible for the destruction of the perimeter which had NO WEIGHT on it?", followed by, "why, if the core acted as a pivot, and held the entire weight of the broken off cap, was it unable to continue to hold, when the load on it was DECREASING as the cap leaned over?".

in the latter case, i can see that the vector of the load that the core "saw" went from straight down(as it was designed to resist) to slightly from the side(which would put directional forces on the core's connections not expected by the designers).
however, i know that the core beams were welded all the way up, and the general rule with welding is make the connection stronger than the surrounding steel, and so the main core columns can be considered to be single 1368 ft. beams from ground to top, and between the strength and elastic properties of steel, there is no good explanation i've seen that satisfies the MIGHTY pivot simply disappearing.

Look how many degrees it has continued to rotate in this photo, the center of gravity of the block does not appear to even be over the remaining structure in this photo.:

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[edit on 5-5-2007 by Pootie]

I took note of the NIST findings presented in PBS "NOVA | Building on Ground Zero" recently too.

NOVA site with animations:
www.pbs.org...
Building on Ground Zero - TORRENT:
www.torrentz.com...

The thing that caught my attention the most is the significance of the very lower level 'squibs' in light of the notion of floors not dropping out in advance of the collapse.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 5-5-2007 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

I'll be posting the squibs NIST issue in a seperate thread, as this one seems focused on the total structural context...

[edit on 5-5-2007 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

NIST input data for SAP2000

bless that person's heart.
anyone have the software and the skills?
griff, maybe?

Originally posted by billybob
NIST input data for SAP2000

bless that person's heart.
anyone have the software and the skills?
griff, maybe?

I have the software but haven't learned to use it yet. I downloaded the student version from a professor somewhere. He may still have it up and downloadable. If not, I think I kept the .exe. file and if someone wants the program just ask. It's free shareware (student version) so, there shouldn't be any conflict.

Here's a link to download the student version of SAP2000.

www.engr.csufresno.edu...

i'm a mac guy, and i wouldn't know what to do with the files, anyway.
but, it is only a matter of time before someone who does know ferrets out at least some information from this data.

also, "coincidentally" two of the files are apparently corrupt.

I tried all 4 files and couldn't get anything. It's probably Griff error though because I'm not really familiar with SAP2000. I've been wanting to learn it but haven't had a chance to sit down with it yet.

Try whatever it takes, to get these files working.
I do not believe that all NIST personnel is corrupt.

I had actually put this on the side burner for the moment. I'll try more Labtop. I want to see what happens and such. Thanks for the reminder.