House OKs smoking ban

Originally posted by dawnstar
so, again I ask, so why should the federal government pass laws to protect food service workers from these substances when they are found in shs, while they are letting so much else go?

You keep getting stuck in believing this is just about protecting food workers. That is only a small portion of the big picture. It is about protecting the PUBLIC from people who want to spew toxic chemicals from their mouths.

I am not a food service employee nor have I ever been. Cigerette smoke also does more than just cause cancer as I have already listed.

Pregnant women exposed to ETS are also at increased risk of having low birth weight babies. Secondhand smoke can also aggravate symptoms in 400,000 to 1,000,000 children with asthma. Secondhand smoke is responsible for between 150,000 and 300,000 lower respiratory tract infections in infants and children under 18 months of age resulting in between 7,500 and 15,000 hospitalizations each year, and causes 1,900 to 2,700 sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS) deaths in the United States annually.

Every time a person breathes in second-hand smoke, he/she consumes over 100 harmful chemical agents. These are not factory workers or people who choose to be at a job that may cause them harm. They are people who are out in PUBLIC and do not want to be exposed to harmful chemicals. They are people who want to protect their unborn and born children. They are people who value their health.

I value freedoms. But freedom does not mean you get to pollute my body with some toxic filth because you are addicted to some harmful disgusting habit.

Originally posted by Griff
Back in the old days when people smoked more often and more people smoked, there was less lung cancer and emphysema. Care to explain that?

Easy, "back in the day" tabacco was just that, rolled tabacco.

Yesterdays cigarette are not the same as todays chemically laden, flavor enhanced death sticks.

Thus that rate of chronic illness attributed to smoking has sky rocketed.

I don't believe in this at all. It's not really a matter of smokers vs. nonsmokers, it's a matter of taking away the establishment's (as in, the restaurant, bar, etc.) right to choose whether or not it wants people smoking inside.

Originally posted by scooler1
Here are just a few of the chemicals found in cigarettes:

Benzene (petrol additive)
A colourless cyclic hydrocarbon obtained from coal and petroleum, used as a solvent in fuel and in chemical manufacture - and contained in cigarette smoke. It is a known carcinogen and is associated with leukaemia.

Formaldehyde (embalming fluid)
A colourless liquid, highly poisonous, used to preserve dead bodies - also found in cigarette smoke. Known to cause cancer, respiratory, skin and gastrointestinal problems.

Ammonia (toilet cleaner)
Used as a flavouring, frees nicotine from tobacco turning it into a gas, found in dry cleaning fluids.

Acetone (nail polish remover)
Fragrant volatile liquid ketone, used as a solvent, for example, nail polish remover - found in cigarette smoke.

Tar
Particulate matter drawn into lungs when you inhale on a lighted cigarette. Once inhaled, smoke condenses and about 70 per cent of the tar in the smoke is deposited in the smoker's lungs.

Nicotine (insecticide/addictive drug)
One of the most addictive substances known to man, a powerful and fast-acting medical and non-medical poison. This is the chemical which causes addiction.

Carbon Monoxide (CO) (car exhaust fumes)
An odourless, tasteless and poisonous gas, rapidly fatal in large amounts - it's the same gas that comes out of car exhausts and is the main gas in cigarette smoke, formed when the cigarette is lit. Others you may recognize are :

Arsenic (rat poison), Hydrogen Cyanide (gas chamber poison)

source: Health Education Authority (UK) - Lifesaver

Here are just a few of the chemicals in perfume.

Health Risks from Perfume: The Most Common Chemicals Found in Thirty-One Fragrance Products by a 1991 EPA Study
by Julia Kendall
1995



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Compiled by Julia Kendall*, Co-Chair, Citizens for a Toxic-Free Marin. Phone: (415) 485-6870. Reference: Lance Wallace, Environmental Protection Agency; Phone (703) 341-7509 Excerpts from "Health Hazard Information." References: Material Safety Data Sheets (MSDS). Provided with permission by Barbara Wilkie [email protected] of the Environmental Health Network (of California). [*NOTE: Julia Kendall died July 12, 1997 from Multiple Chemical Sensitivities and Leukemia caused by pesticide poisoning.]
Principal chemicals found in scented products are:
ACETONE
(in: cologne, dishwashing liquid and detergent, nail enamel remover) - On EPA, RCRA, CERCLA Hazardous Waste lists. "Inhalation can cause dryness of the mouth and throat; dizziness, nausea, incoordination, slurred speech, drowsiness, and, in severe exposures, coma." "Acts primarily as a central nervous system (CNS) depressant."
BENZALDEHYDE
(in: perfume, cologne, hairspray, laundry bleach, deodorants, detergent, vaseline lotion, shaving cream, shampoo, bar soap, dishwasher detergent) - Narcotic. Sensitizer. "Local anesthetic, CNS depressant"... "irritation to the mouth, throat, eyes, skin, lungs, and GI tract causing nausea and abdominal pain." "May cause kidney damage." "Do not use with contact lenses."
BENZYL ACETATE
(in: perfume, cologne, shampoo, fabric softener, stickup air freshener, dishwashing liquid and detergent, soap, hairspray, bleach, after shave, deodorants) - Carcinogenic (linked to pancreatic cancer); "From vapors: irritating to eyes and respiratory passages, exciting cough." "In mice: hyperaemia of the lungs." "Can be absorbed through the skin causing systemic effects." "Do not flush to sewer."
BENZYL ALCOHOL
(in: perfume, cologne, soap, shampoo, nail enamel remover, air freshener, laundry bleach and detergent, Vaseline lotion, deodorants, fabric softener) - "irritating to the upper respiratory tract" ... "headache, nausea, vomiting, dizziness, drop in blood pressure, CNS depression, and death in severe cases due to respiratory failure."
CAMPHOR
(in: perfume, shaving cream, nail enamel, fabric softener, dishwasher detergent, nail color, stickup air freshener) - "local irritant and CNS stimulant" ..."readily absorbed through body tissues" ..."irritation of eyes, nose and throat" ..."dizziness, confusion, nausea, twitching muscles and convulsions" "Avoid inhalation of vapors."
ETHANOL
(in: perfume, hairspray, shampoo, fabric softener, dishwashing liquid and detergent, laundry detergent, shaving cream, soap, Vaseline lotion, air fresheners, nail color and remover, paint and varnish remover) - On EPA Hazardous Waste list; symptoms: "...fatigue; irritating to eyes and upper respiratory tract even in low concentrations..." "Inhalation of ethanol vapors can have effects similar to those characteristic of ingestion. These include an initial stimulatory effect followed by drowsiness, impaired vision, ataxia, stupor..." Causes CNS disorder. [Note: this refers to denatured ethanol, which is commonly used in the cosmetic industry, not to drinking alcohol.]
ETHYL ACETATE
(in: after shave, cologne, perfume, shampoo, nail color, nail enamel remover, fabric softener, dishwashing liquid) - Narcotic. On EPA Hazardous Waste list; "...irritating to the eyes and respiratory tract" ..."may cause headache and narcosis (stupor)" ..."defatting effect on skin and may cause drying and cracking" ..."may cause anemia with leukocytosis and damage to liver and kidneys" "Wash thoroughly after handling."
LIMONENE
(in: perfume, cologne, disinfectant spray, bar soap, shaving cream, deodorants, nail color and remover, fabric softener, dishwashing liquid, air fresheners, after shave, bleach, paint and varnish remover) - Carcinogenic. "Prevent its contact with skin or eyes because it is an irritant and sensitizer." "Always wash thoroughly after using this material and before eating, drinking, ...applying cosmetics. Do not inhale limonene vapor."
LINALOOL
(in: perfume, cologne, bar soap, shampoo, hand lotion, nail enamel remover, hairspray, laundry detergent, dishwashing liquid, Vaseline lotion, air fresheners, bleach powder, fabric softener, shaving cream, after shave, solid deodorant) - Narcotic. ..."respiratory disturbances" ... "Attracts bees." "In animal tests: ataxic gait, reduced spontaneous motor activity and depression ... development of respiratory disturbances leading to death." ..."depressed frog-heart activity." Causes CNS disorder.
METHYLENE CHLORIDE
(in: shampoo, cologne, paint and varnish remover) - Banned by the FDA in 1988! No enforcement possible due to trade secret laws protecting chemical fragrance industry. On EPA, RCRA, CERCLA Hazardous Waste lists. "Carcinogenic" ..."Absorbed, stored in body fat, it metabolizes to carbon monoxide, reducing oxygen-carrying capacity of the blood." "Headache, giddiness, stupor, irritability, fatigue, tingling in the limbs." Causes CNS disorder.
a-PINENE
(in: bar and liquid soap, cologne, perfume, shaving cream, deodorants, dishwashing liquid, air freshener) - Sensitizer (damaging to the immune system).
g-TERPINENE
(in: cologne, perfume, soap, shaving cream, deodorant, air freshener) - "Causes asthma and CNS disorders."
a-TERPINEOL
(in: perfume, cologne, laundry detergent, bleach powder, laundry bleach, fabric softener, stickup air freshener, Vaseline lotion, cologne, soap, hairspray, after shave, roll-on deodorant) - ..."highly irritating to mucous membranes"... "Aspiration into the lungs can produce pneumonitis or even fatal edema." Can also cause "excitement, ataxia (loss of muscular coordination), hypothermia, CNS and respiratory depression, and headache." "Prevent repeated or prolonged skin contact."
Unable to secure MSDS for the following chemicals: 1,8-CINEOLE; b-CITRONELLOL; b-MYRCENE; NEROL; OCIMENE; b-PHENETHYL ALCOHOL; a-TERPINOLENE

Source: www.immuneweb.org...

Notice that most if not all of the chemicals that are in cig smoke are also in perfumes.

So, again, I'll ask. How are they so positive that all these health effects are from 2ndHS and not perfume, when perfume has the same amount of carcinogens and toxins?

Are you really that thick-headed griff? Sure all of that stuff is in perfumes, IN ITS LIQUID FORM! You are not inhaling every single one of those chemicals when you smell someone's perfume or cologne, you are porbably not getting any of them into your system. Show me some proof that perfumes are a verifiable health hazard with documented illnesses associated with smelling perfume and I will get behind you 100% Until then, I'm afraid you do not have a leg to stand on.

And griff, please tell me that you don't use: soap, shaving cream, laundry detergent, mouthwash, dishwashing soap, after shave, fabric softener, hairspray, cosmetics, deodorant, shampoo, bleach, etc, etc, etc...

I hope you realize that the symptoms described from exposure to your list of chemicals is the result of inundating small animals with way more of the chemical than you would ever come in contact with, no matter how many people around you were wearing perfume or cologne.

[edit on 7-5-2007 by scooler1]

[edit on 7-5-2007 by scooler1]

Originally posted by Griff
Notice that most if not all of the chemicals that are in cig smoke are also in perfumes.

So, again, I'll ask. How are they so positive that all these health effects are from 2ndHS and not perfume, when perfume has the same amount of carcinogens and toxins?

You are confusing a "scent" with "smoke." They are not the same thing. If you injest the perfume or smoke the perfume it will have harmful reactions inside your body.

Breathing a persons perfume, while sometimes being unpleasant, is no where near as harmful as breathing in puffs of smoke. I can't even believe that this point has to be made. You don't need some elaborate scientific test to know that the human body does not want smoke to enter the lungs. Smoke is very bad for you. There are no positive reactions inside of the body when smoke enters into the lungs. The first thing the human body tries to do is cough out the smoke.

All you have to do is look at some smokers lungs. images.google.com...

My grandma who has smoked since she was 12 years old died when she was in her 60's because of smoking. The last 10 years of her life was spent in and out of hospitals while they cut big chunks of black lung tissues away from her diseased lungs. This is what happens when smoke enters your lungs. I have no problem with anyone who wants to smoke and die a horrible death, but don't try to tell me you have the right to pullute every public place with toxic smoke that I have to breath. Everytime a person breaths in smoke the alveoli in their lungs die and these do not grow back. Smoke destroys lung tissue. The large majority of us do not want that to happen to our lungs. We want to keep health, strong lungs. sorry, I know it is rude of us.



[edit on 8-5-2007 by zerotime]

When you smell the perfume, you're actually breathing it in. I can't believe that's a point I have to make.

That's why if you're allergic to a perfume, and someone wearing it walks past you, it can affect you.

Originally posted by scooler1
Are you really that thick-headed griff?

First, I shouldn't even reply after the insult. Anyway, what do you think smelling something is? Have you had ANY chemistry classes? The fact that you can smell something is the fact that you are BREATHING IN THAT SOMETHING. I.E. for us thickheaded ones, you are breathing in the molecules of that something...same as you are breathing in the smoke.

As far as me using products. Yes, I do. So what? That wasn't my point and you know it. My point was that why are they attacking smokers when there are just as many harmful chemicals that I have to breath in from you French Whore smelling people?

BTW, I quit smoking 3 days ago amist this whole debate.

Originally posted by zerotime
You are confusing a "scent" with "smoke." They are not the same thing. If you injest the perfume or smoke the perfume it will have harmful reactions inside your body.

I'm sorry but I'm not the one who is confused here. Breathing in the perfume scent is breathing in the molecules of said perfume. I.E. for us thickheaded ones, breathing in the chemicals.

Breathing a persons perfume, while sometimes being unpleasant, is no where near as harmful as breathing in puffs of smoke.

Really? How long do you have to endure someone's perfume as oppossed to someone's smoke? You can walk away from smoke, but if you're stuck in an office with a French Whore, then you're screwed. All day long, you will be expossed to those chemicals.

I can't even believe that this point has to be made. You don't need some elaborate scientific test to know that the human body does not want smoke to enter the lungs. Smoke is very bad for you. There are no positive reactions inside of the body when smoke enters into the lungs. The first thing the human body tries to do is cough out the smoke.

The first thing I do when smelling someone's perfume is cough and gag and get a headache. Why is my pain less of a concern than yours?

All you have to do is look at some smokers lungs. images.google.com...

How many of those smokers wore perfume also? How many lived near steel manufacturer's? How many lived near coal mines? See my point in that they can't definatively tell that this is caused just from smoking? That is my point about the perfume thing. How do they know the difference?

My grandma who has smoked since she was 12 years old died when she was in her 60's because of smoking. The last 10 years of her life was spent in and out of hospitals while they cut big chunks of black lung tissues away from her diseased lungs. This is what happens when smoke enters your lungs.

Sorry to hear about your grandmother. Did she wear perfume?

I have no problem with anyone who wants to smoke and die a horrible death, but don't try to tell me you have the right to pullute every public place with toxic smoke that I have to breath. Everytime a person breaths in smoke the alveoli in their lungs die and these do not grow back. Smoke destroys lung tissue. The large majority of us do not want that to happen to our lungs. We want to keep health, strong lungs. sorry, I know it is rude of us.

Good for you. Point is, you're going to have to live in a bubble if you want healthy strong lungs. Those vehicles and perfume wearers are everywhere.

Originally posted by Johnmike
When you smell the perfume, you're actually breathing it in. I can't believe that's a point I have to make.

And I'm the thickheaded one. Go figure. Thanks for the back-up.

okay. If you want to believe perfume is killing people like cigerette smoke in order to make you feel more comfortable about smoking around other people please be my guest.

I am done here. I think I posted enough information with links. There is an old saying, you can't argue with addiction because addiction knows no logic. When I say I do not want to be in a public place and forced to breath in a bunch of second hand smoke I think that is fairly logical and rational to understand - unless you are a smoker. A smoker believes it is their right to enter any public place and fill the air with smoke that other people do not want to breath. That is the whole basis of the argument - - Should a smokers rights trump the rights of other people who do not want to breath smoke. I say no, and I will use my power to vote that way every time. Smokers, feel free to vote against those laws and we will let democracy do its work.

EDIT: Oh and for the record, my grandma did not wear perfume. She was a housewife and they were too poor to afford extravagant extras like perfumes. I know, no money for perfume but plenty for cigerettes - the sad irony huh? Of course back in the day they made them very affordable and promoted them as good for you. I have known people with hard drug addictions, heroin, and coc aine who were able to kick the habit easier than my grandparents stopping smoking. There were no coal mines or factories near her house, but there were 2 to 4 smokers living in it at different times for many decades.



[edit on 8-5-2007 by zerotime]

Originally posted by zerotime
okay. If you want to believe perfume is killing people like cigerette smoke in order to make you feel more comfortable about smoking around other people please be my guest.

First, I was a considerate smoker. Remember I have recently quit. Actually the day before I posted on this thread to be exact. So, I'm not argueing for smokers. I'm arguing that this whole debate is about control.

I am done here. I think I posted enough information with links. There is an old saying, you can't argue with addiction because addiction knows no logic.

If addiction knows no logic, then why have I recently quit?

When I say I do not want to be in a public place and forced to breath in a bunch of second hand smoke I think that is fairly logical and rational to understand - unless you are a smoker.

Even as a smoker, it is rational to understand. I myself don't understand why smokers want to smoke in restaurants. But, a bar is a different story. People don't go to bars to get healthy. Plus, before the smoking ban here in DC, there were plenty of non-smoking bars that people could go to. Why the need to make everyone non-smoking? The choice has been taken from us.

A smoker believes it is their right to enter any public place and fill the air with smoke that other people do not want to breath.

No, a smoker believes that their right is being trampled on because it is not equal. Remember equal protection under the law? If they want to make everything smoke free, then they have to accommodate for the smoking population also. Like smoke rooms et al.

That is the whole basis of the argument - - Should a smokers rights trump the rights of other people who do not want to breath smoke.

No, but your rights to not breath smoke shouldn't be a law to make other people not breath smoke. Why does YOUR rights trump smokers and people who don't mind smoke?

I say no, and I will use my power to vote that way every time. Smokers, feel free to vote against those laws and we will let democracy do its work.

Yes, because we know from historical fact that mob rule mentality is always the right way to go.