Homosexuals must be killed, Dont work on The Sabbath..

I came across a couple of Anti-Christian websites recently and decided to watch some the arguments that they presented. One of the things these sites mentioned was that the Bible is completely repulsive because it demands the death of many innocent people; such as homosexuals, people who work on Sunday, men who go near a woman within 7 days of her period, or seek death on those who don't believe in God....

Anyway, Its a valid argument because in the Bible it does command the death of all these people. This is mostly in the book of Deuteronomy (Old Testament). So often, people bring this up when arguing Christianity. Understandable these are very VALID arguments.

This is the point I think thats being missed. Once God sent Jesus to earth, EVERYTHING was made CLEAN. All meat was made clean, and a lot of "past sins" were made clean. The New Testament is after Jesus came. The New Testament is our new set of laws. Forgiveness became the new law. That was the turning point for humanity.

So people using old testament bible versus to make an argument cannot really. All that had been wiped away once Jesus came as the son of God.

Either book you're using has it's fallacy. Every human being no matter what their preferance is has a right to live without fear on this planet! The ones that I would not have a problem see gone are the ones that think otherwise. I say mind your business and worry about you when it comes to such.

So the old testament isn't the "word of God?"

Jesus changed the "Word of God?"

You can't change the meaning of "the Word of God" just so it can fit into your personal dogma.

Blasphemy!!!

You don't have to be upset, cause really, I don't go around arguing these things. i just don't want people to think that the bible punishes these things by death. I was just bringing an idea to the table. I think that Jesus was sent as a prophet to give forgiveness and wipe a lot of the old stuff clean.

The bible was written by MEN. MEN make mistakes and MEN tend to allow their own bias' into what they are writing. God inspired the writing, but MEN filtered that inspiration and wrote the bible.

The O.T. is full of history, stories, and 'fairy tales with morals'. It is a good window into the culture of the day. Many of 'God's laws' in the OT are cultural laws that the MEN of that day tagged as 'God's laws'.

BTW .. isn't this better in BTS - faith forum??

Ya I guess it could be moved. I'm fairly new and haven't really check out BTS much.

The reason there is such a difference between the wrathful, merciless God of the Old Testament and the benevolent, forgiving God of the New is that the purpose of both Testaments were different.
The Old Testament was written by the Jewish faith and included (as already mentioned) more fairy tales with social values instilled in them. The New Testament was written by Christians as a way of luring more people into their 'gang'. It appeals to people because it has a God who forgives everything they do.

Sorry Ashley T, my post was sarcasm. Im actually on the same page as FlyersFan on this one.

However I'm all for the sacrifice of a goat now and then. I think they are called bar-b-que's.

Originally posted by Ashley_T
, people who work on Sunday,

well this alone shows your ignorance of the Torah, or OT as you would call it. The sabath is on Saturday, not sunday.. Cheesh!

Also, you fail to realize it was written byJews, for Jews. They didnt just go around killing people for working on the sabbath. This rule is only for Jews!!

This is the point I think thats being missed. Once God sent Jesus to earth, EVERYTHING was made CLEAN. All meat was made clean, and a lot of "past sins" were made clean. The New Testament is after Jesus came. The New Testament is our new set of laws. Forgiveness became the new law. That was the turning point for humanity.

Really, then you may want to explain why it is that the "OT" says over and over that the law will never be abolished. That it is FOREVER. And that people shouting that you should follow "Gods which you have not known" are false prophets.

So people using old testament bible versus to make an argument cannot really. All that had been wiped away once Jesus came as the son of God.

Umm nice try. Really does make it easier to swallow Christianity though if you can just say "well its is from the OT so its not relevant doesnt i?. The fact is though that if your religion calims its validity through the Torah then it must be consitent with it. I guess it doesnt matter to you that Judaism does not and has never believed in a human diety yet you worship one. This is that part that never fails to amaze me. You want to claim that Christianity is the fulfillmet of Judaism and yet you reject even its basic priciples. Get your own religion and quit trying to hijack someone elses.

Originally posted by Ashley_T

This is the point I think thats being missed. Once God sent Jesus to earth, EVERYTHING was made CLEAN. All meat was made clean, and a lot of "past sins" were made clean. The New Testament is after Jesus came. The New Testament is our new set of laws. Forgiveness became the new law. That was the turning point for humanity.

So people using old testament bible versus to make an argument cannot really. All that had been wiped away once Jesus came as the son of God.

I have heard this logic applied to numerous topics. Some would like to reject everything mentioned in the OT and adhere only to the New Testement. If this is the case then one would still have to consider Romans 1:26-28.

Romans 1:26-28 (King James Version)

26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

Romans 1:26-28 (New American Standard Bible)
26For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,

The Scriptures offer no apologies, no concessions, no ambiguity; homosexual practices, adultery, fornication, are all repulsive in God’s sight.

Then the question becomes, "should true Christians water down the Bible’s position on “disgraceful sexual appetites” merely to become more popular or more acceptable to modern culture?

Regardless of the personal decision one makes, I think it is clear that both the Old & New Testement condemn the practice of homosexuality.

Although Homosexuality is condemned in both the Old & New Testement the final judgement will come from God. No first century Christians were authorized the put someone who was guilty of these practices to death. They were simply instructed not to associate with them or tolerate them in the Congregations.

You can this to the list of other sins also condemned in the New Testement.
Drunkeness, glutteny, fornication, adultery, murder, idolatry......ect.

Again, I'm not trying to be ignorant, or angry or anything... In fact I don't really discuss these things with people. I just post thoughts when I get them , and try to learn from the responses on the board. I'm not saying "this is" or "isnt" i was just posting a possibility.

Jesus didn't write "Romans". One of his followers did (sorry I don't have a bible handy). As such, it is not the word of God or Jesus. Case closed. Even if you are a fundamentalist, one is supposed to follow the word of Jesus. Period.Who cares what a bigoted old stone-age creep thinks; we live in 2007, not 0107!

Originally posted by Sparky63


You can this to the list of other sins also condemned in the New Testement.
Drunkeness, glutteny, fornication, adultery, murder, idolatry......ect.

Drunkeness? Really? So the whole water to wine thing? seems kinda messed p right?
Also I am pretty sure Jesus didn't turn away homosexuals, no no lepers come here, all sinners your good but you homos give me the creeps lol..

Probably believe in the rapture too lol

sorry for the sarcasm, but the irony kills me

And Jesus did say to them, thow shall not drinkith 4 glasses of wine, 2 is ok, 3 is kinda of a sin depending on your weigh and how longeth in between. 4 is right out.. 5 is far to much , as one is just not enough, thow sayith the lord




[edit on 30-4-2007 by ShiftTrio]

I have always held the belief that everyone who wrote anything in the bible had an agenda that involved some sort of power and control. I believe that even the conflicting information was intentionally put there just to wreak havok among the sheeple. So I don't believe any of it.

Upon reading the Bible and getting to know Jesus, I came to understand that his teachings are all about Love and Understanding. Not hate and killing.

Yes the Old Testament is packed full of stories of death and destruction, but Jesus said those times and those rules were for when "Our Hearts Were Hard". during the time of Moses. Jesus came to enlighten us, teach us peace and to remove our sin so that we can enter the Kingdom.

All of that being said, we are each and every one of us responsible for our own souls. I can pray for you, hope that you discover salvation, and not feel it necessary to force you to do anything. I can wish that you believed and not demand that you worship as I do.

To use force or the threat of force to compel you to believe in Christ, defeats the entire concept of free will and that is the very foundation of Christianity as it is taught by Christ.

We must come to Him and the Father willingly and without proof or coercion. We quite simply must have Faith.

Semper

Originally posted by ShiftTrio


Drunkeness? Really? So the whole water to wine thing? seems kinda messed p right?

Drinking wine in moderation was not wrong. Drunkeness was though.

Also I am pretty sure Jesus didn't turn away homosexuals, no no lepers come here, all sinners your good but you homos give me the creeps lol..

I would agree with you. I don't think he would have turned them away. He would have encouraged them to repent and stop what they were doing.

Probably believe in the rapture too lol

This would be in inaccurate assumption on your part.

sorry for the sarcasm, but the irony kills me

Sarcasm is OK, But I fail to see the irony.

I apologize about the rapture then, just goes along with the people who have a personal issue with Homosexuals, just seems that way to me at least. This thread was about the violence in the bible but you had to throw in Homosexuals with "disgraceful sexual appetites” ( Iknow the thread says kill homosexuals but he was talking about the Violence)These people cannot help who they are, and Jesus would know this, its a DNA thing. They can't just say I want boobies one day, I have had several friends who would have loved NEVER to be gay. (No I am not Gay I happen to love boobies lol) Its not an easy life for alot of people. Some people embrace it as they should, far more deny it and in turn make themselves miserable or commit suicide, because people think they can just change and do not love or accept them as who they are. To me I believe Jesus would. IMHO

On the side note, I have been DRUNK many times and have had a great time as well as the others around (I'm a nice Drunk lol) I have a feeling these are rules that were made by men, because of the bad things that do happen to some people when they are drunk and it much easy to control people in this fashion to say God said to do it. I have a feeling its the same with the eating of pork. People got sick because of the pork and not knowing about storing or cooking it and so to get them to stop they said God said no Pork. I doubt God would come up with a rule that should only apply to some. Again IMHO

Sorry about the Rapture crack though...

[edit on 30-4-2007 by ShiftTrio]

Originally posted by ShiftTrio
This thread was about the violence in the bible but you had to throw in Homosexuals with "disgraceful sexual appetites” ( Iknow the thread says kill homosexuals but he was talking about the Violence)

Your right. I was just following the lead of the opening post.
The OP inaccurately stated that this prohibition was against Homosexuality was only in the OT, so I showed where it was repeated inthe NT.
The words, "disgraceful sexual appetites” was part of the scripture I quoted, Not my originality. I'm sorry you or anyone else was offended by them, but I don't think it would be proper to censure what is in the scriptures.
We all have the right to accept or reject what the Bible says. But we should at least make the decision based on accurate knowlege as to what it truly says.

Actually is relatively easy to agree on what it says, the problem is agreeing on what it means. LOL

Sorry about the Rapture crack though...

No offense taken.

[edit on 30-4-2007 by ShiftTrio]

I believe the New Testament was only written because some genius woke up and said, "What the *#%*".

Now that more and more people are losing faith in "God", I wouldn't be surprised if a "Newer Testament" is written.

I do believe in a creator, just not the biblical "God". I don't believe the creator has ever physically intervened with mankind. I also would like to state that no one knows the actual truth until they die, maybe not even then.

Hell was only "invented" to enforce laws. If everyones afraid of eternal damnation, then they'll follow the laws. Take a look at the laws of those ancient biblical times, they're all religious. I refuse to be apart of any religion that has been biult up by lies. No offence to anyone's beliefs, though. You have the right believe anything you want.