aerosol attack chemtrail evidence

So what special knowledge do chemtrail believers have that every pilot and meteorologist is lacking? If chemmies are going to tell us that it is not cold enough up high for ice crystals to form, then they can tell us why meteorology is wrong and how the temperature sensors on aircraft are mistaken and that is is actually balmy up high

I sit here today in the Tampa, Florida area watching 4 planes laying down an uncredible series of trails that start in the north end of the county and stretch to the south of the county and abruptly end. When the winds were up earlier in the week 'nothing' perfectly blue skies. Today and yesterday the winds have been down and their playing catch up.

In another locally related event. A local weatherman on an NBC affiliate committed suicide three weeks ago Monday. His last appearence on television was the Friday prior and at the end of the broadcast he was questioned by the two anchors regarding the amount of thin cloud cover that was present that day here in the area. His suicide was attributed to depression and that may well be the case. But, I find it awefully ironic that his last words on air were an effort to sell the contrails of as contributors.

Do you have any idea how many jet aircraft are probably flying right now close enough to tampa where you could see persistent contrails if the conditions are rignt?

Originally posted by YIAWETA
I sit here today in the Tampa, Florida area watching 4 planes laying down an uncredible series of trails that start in the north end of the county and stretch to the south of the county and abruptly end. When the winds were up earlier in the week 'nothing' perfectly blue skies. Today and yesterday the winds have been down and their playing catch up.

Funny that. The winds pick up and you don't have persistent contrails. They settle down and you do. Odd that would happen.

Firepilot, Why would the trails stop and start abruptly?. They would be continueous well north of where they start and trail out into the distance. They don't. They are laid down over population centers. We in this area became quite attuned to spraying from planes in the mid 90's when the med fly was present in the area. That whole effort was widely discussed and regulated. We were in fact asked to stay inside at certain times in the morning and school recesses were prohibited until afternoon.

Would you be happier if airliners avoided overflying cities?

Its probably part of their routing in their flight plan. Often navaids are located at or near airports, airports are often located in or next to large cities.

Go to flightaware.com, put in your airport where you can look at traffic, and look at the number of planes near you.

what is wrong with contrails starting and stopping sometimes. Clouds can abruptly start and stop. All it takes is a slight variation of temperature and humidity. Its not like the air is just some some static entity with no change. its rather dynamic.


[edit on 28-4-2007 by firepilot]

Firepilot, The air temps in this area must be controlled by the county dividing lines. There are no trails out over the water. I won't waste my time with 'spin patrol' any longer. I know where these planes originate and will ultimately bring it to light in this community. Someone has to do it.

[edit on 28-4-2007 by YIAWETA]

Ultimately? Why not right now if you know where and what they are? The story of ATS lately. "I know what this is and soon I'll show you all!" and weeks later still nothing.

Zaph and Fire, Enjoy your lunch?

No, I just had dinner. I am in the middle east right now.

So where is this chemtrail base at? No chemmie seems to have found it yet, they always dodge that question and why there are no photos of any of these planes at any airport or base.

Moisture and temps can very, its not going to be the exact same. Look at why you have a band of clouds that suddenly just stops. In one area where it is, you have suitable moisture, Where it ends, you dont.

Look at how distinct the bases and sides of cumulous clouds are. There is no transition to them, you suddenly go from not having a cloud to having a cloud. Why its not allowed for contrails , well I dont know. Maybe its not just cirrus cloud that are a hoax, but all clouds then apparently





[edit on 28-4-2007 by firepilot]

As the person claiming they're real, the burden of proof is on you, yet you sit there and tell me that pictures of planes leaving contrails aren't good enough, but the exact same thing by YOU is evidence of this big conspiracy.

Showing a picture of a contrail as counter evidence is not sufficient to disprove chemtrails. just as PICTURES of chemtrails are not enough to prove chemtrails.

if you would read my other post, i gave a link to a study carried out on contrails, i have found 'proof' that may be of interest to you:

www.chemtrailcentral.com...

Jet aircraft leave behind a heated mixture of water, carbon dioxide, nitrogen oxides, sulfates, unburnt hydrocarbons, soot, etc. as by-products of the combustion of fuel in the engines. Water and particulates play a fundamental role as the basic foundation for the formation of a contrail. Pre-existing particles in the air will serve as nucleating bodies for the warm water to condense around, creating larger droplets that will quickly freeze given the appropriate atmospheric conditions. Fresh soot from the exhaust is generally hydrophobic, but over time can become hydrophilic, and thus suitable as condensation nuclei. The ability of the resultant ice crystals to last is governed by the ambient moisture at flight altitude. So, temperature serves generally as a threshold mechanism for the production of contrails and increased moisture provides slower sublimation rates and thus longer dissipation times for contrails. (Evaporation, often incorrectly applied to the process of contrail dissipation, is the process of a liquid changing to vapor. Sublimation is the process of a solid changing to vapor, bypassing the liquid state.) Various numbers are quoted as the threshold temperature for contrail formation: -40C, -38C, -35C. In this study, the warmest temperature at which a contrail was observed was -41C.

www.carnicom.com...

At the time mentioned above, my son called me to look at the sky. Indeed, the sky was full of the “sheets” of material we usually see as chem-trails spread out after spraying operations. In particular there was a plane leaving a long, non-dissipating, emission to our east. I had my wife bring me our Vivitar 3300 digital camera as fast as possible. I photographed the aircraft and its trail as best I could from my position. I also took one shot of a recent trail, which was spreading fast.

Erm, you're aware that your first quote is describing contrails right?

And you have got such a double standard when it comes to evidence. Your video is a chemtrail, but my picture of the same thing is a contrail?

Regarding the Cessna 188, actually, I have done my homework. It's also rather misleading (in the context of this discussion, if not in literal fact) to say that the 188 was first manufactured in 1966, and that, therefore, it can't be a popular spray plane. It's true that the production run started in 1966, but it continued until 1983, and I can tell you from first-hand experience that 188s were still being used as sprayers (at least in southeast Missouri) as late as 2002, as were a few Grumman Ag-Cats.

if the goverment ARE spraying everyone, then no it is not misleading to assume that the cessna cannot be popular, as they simply wouldnt use it. and i dont doubt people still use them as sprayers, i do doubt they are used as chemsprayers.

As for capacity, I'll concede that you have a point...it *is* foolish of me to assume that a chemtrail sprayer would have the same capacity as a "41 year old plane". Given that a 188 with a 280 gallon hopper (the baseline that I used in my post) has to RTB every 15-20 minutes to reload the hopper, and some of these chemtrail sprayers lay trails for several hours, the chemtrail sprayers have to have much larger tanks.

I have not read anything about anyone stating thet chemplanes lay chemtrails for 'several hours', perhaps an hour, but never several

Regarding my assumption that Boeing is making the aircraft, how is that ridiculous? Most of the chemtrail apologists that I've seen claim that the sprayers are commercial airliners (or at least built on airliner frames), and that means either Boeing (7X7 series), Lockheed-Martin (there are a few L-1011s around), or Airbus (French-built, so not likely part of a US government conspiracy...then again, the Templars were French, so maybe this is deeper than we thought). If it's a military plane, Boeing still covers most of the bases for bombers and tankers, with Lockheed-Martin building most of the transports.

it is not claimed that they ARE commercial airliners, but that they look like them. the planes are completely white, and have been reported to have no windows or markings.

Regarding the alleged mechanic who worked on a chemtrail sprayer, his story got shot down because it's not supported. He claims to have seen three tanks, with the largest being 50 gallons. That's not enough spray capacity to run for more than a minute or two...never mind enough juice to produce a trai (chem or con) of any size. There's also the absolute lack of *any* real detail beyond his description of a (too small) spray rig...no name, no airport name, no airliner name...not even an aircraft type, at least not in the version I read. Are you in the habit of believing anything that an anonymous person posts on the web? That's no 'open mindedness', but most of the words that accurately describe it are considered impolite.

ill give you that one, however, if you read the bit before that it says

"It was hard to tell in the cramped compartment but it looked like the large tank could hold 50 gallons"

nevertheless, it doesnt seem feasible

Nobody's noticing these thick, dense, unusual spray fans flying off the wings of that plane over there? Sorry, I don't buy total blindness on the part of every airline and civil-aviation pilot. Either there's nothing to see, or they're all in on the cover-up.

no, chemtrails look exactly like contrails, and how exactly could you concentrate on whats coming from a plane if you are flying anyway?

As for efficiency, you mention that chemtrails are sprayed over wide areas...we get back to tank capacity again

you said that an 280 gallon hopper would have to reload every 15-20 mins, now im not assuming that 280 gallon hoppers are used, but if the hopper's capacity were roughly equivilent to that of a chem-plane's, then thats plenty of time to spray an area.

Motivations for posters to spend a great deal of time to spin and diffuse conspiracy theorists puzzle me. Sniff....sniff...I smell a fat rat!....I have a grandson who has had a mysterious respritory condition since last September. If either of you jokers had kids or grandchildren you might then think twice about your complicit contributions. Good day!

I do have a child thank you very much. And I do worry about her health, but not from chemtrails. I'm a LOT more worried about the OTHER crap we're putting into our atmosphere than I am from a bunch of contrails over our heads.

Why do they have them then.

Why do they have what?

Showing a picture of a contrail as counter evidence is not sufficient to disprove chemtrails. just as PICTURES of chemtrails are not enough to prove chemtrails.

Changing your story multiple times and then linking us to some fake articles also aren't sufficiant to proove Chemtrails.

I have a grandson who has had a mysterious respritory condition since last September. If either of you jokers had kids or grandchildren you might then think twice about your complicit contributions. Good day!

So basically your grandson has a respritory problem and you somehow connect it to Contrails? Pollution?

How fast do you think the chemicals from 'chem-planes', would sink? 1/2 a foot a second? That is still many, many hours till it reaches the ground, and judging how fast the winds are up there, the chemtrails would of been blown far, far away, making Chemtrails illogical and inefficiant.

Why not poison the water supply?

[edit on 28-4-2007 by PisTonZOR]

These people blame everything on airplanes and contrails. If they have a headache, its from airplanes. If they have a cold, its because of airplanes. If they get sick, its from airplanes. If they get a funny taste in their mouth, its from airplanes.

Of course it just goes over their head, literally, the fact that some kind of nefarious powder, red blood cells, AIDS, SARS, west nile or whatever..etc etc etc..Is not going to come straight down from 7 miles up. That fact is still lost on them. ha, and they accuse us of disinfo for trying to explain aviation and meteorology to them.

Originally posted by YIAWETA
Motivations for posters to spend a great deal of time to spin and diffuse conspiracy theorists puzzle me. Sniff....sniff...I smell a fat rat!....

Well, these guys know what they are talking about regardless of what you may think you smell. I have worked in the aviation field same as them, and Chemtrails are nothing more then a Hoax that was propagated over the internet starting in the late 1990’s. There is no way that anyone could spray stuff on this scale and not have hundreds of thousands of people, “be in the know”, about it. Considering that many of those people are commercial aviation folks such as several of us talking to you, and commercial aviation people do not have to sign non-disclosure agreements, there would be nothing to stop us from telling you it was happening, if it were true.

Originally posted by YIAWETA
sit here today in the Tampa, Florida area watching 4 planes laying down an uncredible series of trails that start in the north end of the county and stretch to the south of the county and abruptly end. When the winds were up earlier in the week 'nothing' perfectly blue skies.

I am also in Tampa. When I worked in Aviation I was a Supervisor at TIA/TPA. I watch the sky here quite often and there are no supposed chemtrails in it, simply persistent contrails. If there was spraying going on since the mid 90’s, as you say, then I would have been the person responsible for loading that stuff on the aircraft. I can guarantee you that there is no such thing going on. If you think it is in someway related to MacDill, then you are also mistaken, as I have been on base many times.

BTW Hillsborough, Pinellas, Pasco, and Polk counties are absolutely huge, there is no way you can see that the spraying starts and ends only over the county.

Originally posted by YIAWETA
I have a grandson who has had a mysterious respritory condition since last September. If either of you jokers had kids or grandchildren you might then think twice about your complicit contributions. Good day!

Well I work for a Pulmonologist now in the Bay area, and I can assure you that this office existed well before the whole Chemtrail hoax did. The reason being, that people have always had lung issues. The numbers of course fluctuate With the general population and, of course, with the number of smokers. There are naturally other things that can cause lung issues, exposure to abrasives (things like sandstone, asbestos, zinc chromate dust), chemicals (ammonia, chlorine), bacteria, allergies, and thousands of other things which can damage your lungs. I see some folks who come in with disorders such as COPD, who have never smoked, never been around anything listed above, and are just born with bad lungs. A couple of possible causes in this area are pollen, mold, mildew, raydon, and chemicals from the phosphate industry.

Unfortunately, it’s not uncommon for a doctor to not be able to track an issue back to its original cause. Often they simply treat the symptoms, and never find the underlying issue. As much as everyone wishes to believe that medicine has all the answers, and that everything can be toxicologically determined, that is just not the truth of the matter, and only happens on shows such as CSI or ER. There is a reason that a medicine is called a “Practice”, and that is because its not an “Exact” science. Not everything is black and white, medical folks deal with gray a lot more then most people realize.

I am very sorry your grandchild is having an issue, but I am afraid you’re looking in the wrong area for the cause of it. I don’t mean this to sound condescending, but looking on the internet, to conspiracy groups, is not the way to diagnose something like this. There are too many folks out on the web who either intentionally or unknowingly will lead folks astray. Some are here to make money selling things, and others think they are helping by spreading internet rumors, myths, or their own personal beliefs.

Anyway if you need assistance with anything just U2U me. I have access to an entire staff of folks who I work with, and can help you try and find the answers you require. If you have not taken him to a Pulmonologist, I recommend doing this, and if you need assistance with that process then just shoot me a U2U.


[edit on 4/29/2007 by defcon5]