Quantum Physics says Good-bye to "Reality"

If you do the double slit experiment with photographic paper on the screen, in a darkroom, and expose it with an enlarger on its side as the light source shining through the double slit, the photographic paper is the observation point, when each probability wave collapses.

A remarkable result follows from a variation of the double-slit experiment, in which detectors are placed in each of the two slits, in an attempt to determine which slit the photon passes through on its way to the screen. Placing a detector even in just one of the slits will result in the disappearance of the interference pattern.

This is because the moment of observation, the collapsing of the probability wave occurs at the slit, from whence the light behaves purely as a particle. The obvious conclusion is that objectivity is impossible, and observation is needed in order to determine reality, an extension of which could be that nothing exists independently of some kind of observer.

Could this be the purpose of life in the universe? Would it all not exist without life to observe it? My head hurts now, so I probably lie down for a while..

Great thread, BTW

Originally posted by albie

I think you are wrong. The tests that prove light is a wave and a particle don't prove that reality isn't there if you are not looking at it. What it proves is that different tests get different results.

I guess then there are many quantum physicist that are wrong also.

The test proves that its a wave until its observed then it becomes a particle.

Watch the video that I posted.

If you read the article posted in the OP it clearly states that reality does not exist until its observed. And the finding was based on their experiment.

Yeah, I'm right. I'm in the library right now reading about it. Two slits and one particle being fired at a time still gets you interference patterns. which is illogical, unless the particle is splitting before the slits!

They used a shutter so that only one of the slits would be open at a time and the interference patterns vanish.

Why does the single photon split? That's the problem.

Because its position is determined by a probability wave, not a single point, until it is observed, when its position is defined.

You can do the double slit with water insted of light, and see exactly whats happening. You just won't be able to get rid of the interference patterns.

Your definition of "being observed" seems a bit out of whack to me.

Is passing through a couple of slits being observed?

You could see it that way, i suppose.

Passing through the slits is not an observation. The observation occurs when the light hits the screen, defining its position. The experiment mentioned above put a detector in one of the slits, which is an observation, and the interference patterns dissapear as soon as the detector begins to operate.

as far as my post about the diamagnetic effects inherit in our own bodies.
the levitating frog is an example of diamagnetics due to the influence of a external magnetic field.
If the electrons could become coherent with the ability of the mind vs a applied external magnetic field...then one could float and walk on water
its really important in my mind to make a miracle a scientific validity.
I think Yeshua walked on water due to diamagnetic effects inherit in our own bodies that he was able to control without external magnetic fields
hey who knows maybe he was an alien and wore an magnetic field effect generator belt under the robes



as far as reality and the wave function I would suggest that Tesla agreed with the ancient East Indian view of the universe as described in the Verudic I believe its called

[edit on 5-5-2007 by junglelord]

Originally posted by albie
Yeah, I'm right. I'm in the library right now reading about it. Two slits and one particle being fired at a time still gets you interference patterns.

Until its observed then it does not produce the interference pattern. It produces the two bands again.



[edit on 5-5-2007 by etshrtslr]

my point exactly the macro world being fully collapsed is able to use the subatomic world and quantum properties of wave collapes due to the presence of an observer to manipulate the universe at the quantum level in the macro world.
like I said quantum tunneling diodes are old news, quantum computers are soon in the public domain...and quantum vehicles are in use by military personel and ET.
boyd bushman says its a fact that the universe does not speak english...ie sacred geometry
and possible that he means the ET as they don't speak, but use thoughts, and images....?

here is boyd bushman from Lockheed Martin and hear what he will say.
Read between the lines
is the ufo gulf breeze photo he claims is a drone he developed or is that a cover for the alien presence and are they looking at UFO photos to reverse engineer?
the ability to understand nanotechnology is years advanced then what we are led to understand.
He even states there are no theorys where they are...

I believe Mother Nature does not speak English.
Mother Nature tells us what must be honored, and has been talking to us on many domains, and we have dataset's we're still trying to understand.
I cannot talk to all the theoretician's because there are no theories were I am.
What we have is wonderful, and it comes from miracles occurring, but that what we see will not be that what we have.
I tell my team, don't talk to me about things, you know, they have all that in production. Talk to me about things that we can only think of in dreams.
We are alone in our walk but it is fullfilling.
To listen where languages are not taught and verbalization is not used.
But we have to learn its language
The evidence of the separation of the galaxies is evidence of dark energy and antigravity.
Two equal weights. One made up of two North Pole magnets that oppose each other. Iron filing tests show that this showers out a magnetic plane. We wanted to see how this magnetic plane intersected with gravity. When dropped from a height, the duel North Pole magnet will land last.
They have refined, a device that as it charges will lift, because it is losing weight.

youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

[edit on 5-5-2007 by junglelord]

etshrtslr

Great little video, mate. Thats a hell of a lot clearer than my effort at explaining it.

What is the source for this blurb?

quote:There's a whole passel of improperly informed people yakking on about consciousness and its relation to reality and other ridiculous notions, specifically because people insist on confusing the necessary MEASUREMENT with the irrelevant OBSERVATION. Collapse of quantum wave functions requries interaction with another non-entangled wave function such as a measuring device. All of the results which support the inequalities tested and referenced here were produced using equipment which measured the phenomena and gave results well before any observation occurred. The parent, and the blurb in Nature both imply the mistaken idea by using terms that refer to a observer. Nature should know better. Everybody else that's really interested in understanding it should learn better. It makes the science much more interesting. But then it weeds out the semi-informed speculativists and the newage (rhymes with sewage) pseudoscientific-spiritual theorists. Being the vast majority, they obviously tend to revolt at the insistence on being correct.

It doesn't make sense. How can you have a measurement before you observe that measurement? why sould nature care that the un-entangled wave function just happens to be a measurement device?

Here is the actual paper :

arxiv.org...

The author is oviously far from a new age sycophant; it is specifically local and non-local realism that are ruled out by his experiments. By attacking the new age philosophies I think your hidden variable author is completely missing the point. Simply asserting that something pre-exists obsevation does not make it so. From my point of view, the measurement is irrelevant compared to the OBSERVATION. Check the facts before you make fluffy realist assertions.

Quantum physics is a load of fantasy anyway, made up stuff to explain what scientists can´t explain. You only have to watch the documentary "what the bleep" to realise what a load of crap it is.

Originally posted by DarkSide
The problem to me is that they don't explain why reality seems to only exist when you observe it!

Well, it would seem that matter is a direct reflection upon the existence upon some form of primeval consciousness.

Originally posted by Oblate Spheroid
Quantum physics is a load of fantasy anyway, made up stuff to explain what scientists can´t explain. You only have to watch the documentary "what the bleep" to realise what a load of crap it is.

thats why we have quantum diodes and soon to have quantum computers, cause its all hoky poky

Jungle, when something pops up that is threatening to topple people's world views, they lash out at it. It's only natural,I suppose.

Nothing in the way

Originally posted by Mr Mota
[Is it] actually the observance of this process that makes them act differently... or is it the physical body of something that gets in the way?

That's where Bell's Inequality comes in, I believe.

The "physical body of something" could be considered as analagous to what's known as a local hidden variable -- the sort of thing Bell proved did not exist.

It is the act of observation itself that collapses the probability wave function, making it impossible to make a meaningful second measurement.

Quantum mechanics prohibits the simultaneous knowledge of more than one mutually noncommuting observable of either system... Measuring one system [would] "poison" any measurement of the other system, no matter what the distance between them

Remember that the quoted sentence is about entangled pairs in the Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen thought experiment, not applying the Uncertainty Principle to a single particle/wave function. But the phenomenon is essentially the same.

Here's an easy-to-follow article on the EPR paradox and Bell's Inequality, which may help clear things up.

And here's a rather poorly-written but very informative article about the real-world implications ofQuantum Entanglement

Mind weaving the universe?

Originally posted by TheBandit795
There are more physicists (such as Wheeler) who theorize based on these experiments that observer (aka consciousness) does have a causal effect on the interactions in quantum wave/particles.

Are you sure? Wheeler was a devout materialist and fought hard against pseudoscience of all kinds. Perhaps you are talking about the Copenhagen Interpretation? That's only one way of looking at things, you know, and most physicists today find it somewhat restrictive and naive.

A more recent, and very interesting concept is that of decoherence.

The somewhat controversial Wikipedia entry has it thus:

In quantum mechanics, quantum decoherence is the mechanism by which quantum systems interact with their environments to exhibit probabilistically additive behavior -- a feature of classical physics -- and give the appearance of wavefunction collapse.

...which actually puts it rather neatly.

I wonder if the photons arent leavign a trace in the air, that the next photon connects with and hence interference is created. How fast are these single photons being put out? in quick succession? What would happen if you only put out one a minute?

"It's the kind of thing that drives an unprepared mind mad."

Originally posted by The Cyfre
It's rather difficult to comprehend the true nature of reality. The fact that literally anything is possible on the quantum scale, and yet "reality" only exists when you're looking at it makes me wonder if the "deciding factor" on the quantum scale has something to do with us, i.e. mind, consciousness, etc.

Originally posted by The Cyfre
It's rather difficult to comprehend the true nature of reality. The fact that literally anything is possible on the quantum scale, and yet "reality" only exists when you're looking at it makes me wonder if the "deciding factor" on the quantum scale has something to do with us, i.e. mind, consciousness, etc.

"It's the kind of thing that drives an unprepared mind mad."

Okay, as a middle age adult I feel the urge to explain why I have been so interested in the truth about reality since my teens. It's bazaar so please bare with me. As a former teenage hippie I experimented with '___'/Acid (1969-70) and eventually had a very bad trip. What I witnessed during this bad trip has stuck with me through out my life. I have always questioned what really went on in my mind at the time. Most psychiatrist would explain it as psychotic break - schizophrenic experience. I believe what really happened is that the '___'/Acid opened the door to the many realities and probabilities and as the observer my unprepared mind could not decipher and it became overwhelming (mad). I remember seeing different worlds and outcomes and didn't realize my physical body could not enter the alternative realities. At one point I didn't know what reality to choose because there were so many and everything influenced another. Towards the end I felt like I was stuck in a middle of a interlocking maze, feeling suffocated, like a worm squirming through wanting to get out; like in the birth canal and waiting to breathe the air of this reality. Finally, the break, a cool breeze on my face and air to breathe, the sense of my Creator/God pulling me out and the bad trip was over. I was in a emergency room strapped down to gurney.

As horrible as it was I always felt our Creator knows that our physical mind and body could never tolerate these higher levels of consciousness. WE have to be somehow prepared or it would be just too overwhelming for any of us. I've also always wondered if schizophrenia was just a door left ajar (like a defected chip) and the mind's inability to decipher what's really going on or how to close it.

[edit on 8-5-2007 by Rjchinook]

[edit on 8-5-2007 by Rjchinook]

[edit on 8-5-2007 by Rjchinook]

A word to the wise

Originally posted by albie
I wonder if the photons arent leaving a trace in the air, that the next photon connects with and hence interference is created.

No, this has nothing to do with the medium through which the photon is being propagated. The same thing would happen in vacuo.

The EPR paradox arises from the fundamental properties of sub-atomic particles as predicted by quantum mechanics. Altering the spin of one photon in an entangled pair *has* to alter the spin of its partner because this effect is predicted by the equations. It has nothing to do with any kind of Newtonian interaction; it's not about photons crashing into air molecules or anything like that. The surprise is that the counterintuitive mathematics is actually supported by real-world experimental results like this.

Don't even think of trying to explain it in terms of classical interactions (which is what you were doing). You can't understand quantum mechanics like that. Its processes are counterintuitive and not susceptible to visualization.

There is only one way to begin to understand quantum mechanics and that is to study it as a scientific subject. This involves being handy with some very advanced mathematics. It's not for everyone; in fact, it's hard even for physicists. One of the greatest of them all, Richard Feynman, once said (I paraphrase) 'If you think you understand quantum mechanics, you don't understand quantum mechanics.'