Quantum Physics says Good-bye to "Reality"

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
reply to post by ronbn56

 

Ronbn, when Christ rose from his grave, he was able to walk through doors and walls. Why? He knew that they were non-existent...

The original document tells us that the massive stone that served as a blast door to his grave was actually moved, presumably to let him out. Also, as he had to go through his ordeal on the cross, he is described as hugely uncomfortable through the whole process. Sure enough he would have taken it easy if he knew that stuff was not real.

You can not make one's subjective experience objective to everyone else. We all share the same basic reality, yet we all still have our own personal view of reality. How is this possible if we live in the same absolute reality?

Science can only go so far until it's objective formulas break down due to another new subjective idea that catches steam. This is progression. Due to the fact that reality models will always change, and what we know now will be false in 10, 25, 50, 100 years. Modeling reality is a complete waste of time until we start looking at the fact that we live in a generated simulation.



[edit on 11-1-2008 by tobiascore]

Another A+ thread from Above Top Secret! I've found an amazing amount of good stuff here just by keeping an eye on "Recent Posts".

#

It seems to me, after all is said, that there is some physical law that is still missing from our understanding.

For example, I've heard a story that, during the creation of the "Periodic Table of Elements" during the 19th century, scientists kept finding thousands and thousands of elements that didn't seem to fit, and the table became ridiculously complex and non-intuitive.

Then, someone came up with the idea of a "neutron" as a type of particle – i.e. a proton like particle, except with no charge. Suddenly, everything was simple again! Each element could have "isotopes" -- so obvious!

Likewise, I think we are stretching our imagination to fit our observations. Eventually something will be discovered -- some new physical law or underpinning, and everything will be simple again. We will look back and shrug. We will say, “Of course all that quantum mechanics stuff was ridiculous! But what else could we have thought? We didn’t know that – that – “

Edit: Check out this thread on the Large Hadron Collider being fired up in CERN later this year. How might this ambitious experiment modify our understanding of Quantum Physics?

[edit on 11-1-2008 by Buck Division]

Originally posted by tobiascore
You can not make one's subjective experience objective to everyone else. We all share the same basic reality, yet we all still have our own personal view of reality. How is this possible if we live in the same absolute reality?
[edit on 11-1-2008 by tobiascore]

Who says that we do?

I submit this thought to you: there is a possibility that one's firm belief in, say, God or UFO makes God or UFO objectively present/possible in that person's world; at the same time, another person's firm belief in the NON-existence of God or UFO makes God or UFO objectively IN-existent /absent in that person's world.

It's just a thought...
(But there's where everything seems to be taking place. )





[edit on 11-1-2008 by Vanitas]

Originally posted by Vanitas

Originally posted by tobiascore
You can not make one's subjective experience objective to everyone else. We all share the same basic reality, yet we all still have our own personal view of reality. How is this possible if we live in the same absolute reality?
[edit on 11-1-2008 by tobiascore]

Who says that we do?

I submit this thought to you: there is a possibility that one's firm belief in, say, God or UFO makes God or UFO objectively present/possible in that person's world; at the same time, another person's firm belief in the NON-existence of God or UFO makes God or UFO objectively IN-existent /absent in that person's world.

It's just a thought...
(But there's where everything seems to be taking place.

)





[edit on 11-1-2008 by Vanitas]

That's exactly my point.

What is exactly going on outside or senses? Well, science has some answers, and they are answers that sorta work in our present observation of the universe.

But science is still VERY limited. Going into dark matter...i mean, 96% of the universe is "missing"? 4% of the physical universe can actually be accounted for? That's a huge chunk or our reality just....non-existant by physical standards.

What does that mean? It kinda tells me that subjective experience far outweighs objective 3D scientific dogma.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
I have always viewed science as nothing more,or less, than a tool. I think it's important to realize that most scientists want to know many of the same things everyone else does.

Science is a tool, but it is first and foremost a method.

When scientific rigor is applied diligently to the study of anything, then it is truly a tool.

Any shortcut introduced into the method, renders only dirty data.

Certain religious traditions are skeptical of science, but that is derived from an incomplete understanding of the scientific method and a reflexive reaction to having their faith challenged.

These same people are the ones who confuse data derived from the scientific method with science and it is the data they often object to.

They often denigrate science because the data often becomes obsolete and is often superseded by new data, but that is of course, the real strength of the scientific method.

Valid and reliable data is always coming to light as we continue to test hypotheses and to identify and control for variables and these new data often lead to new questions that themselves must be tested.

Science is a tool, but only when it is a process that results in rigid adherence to the methods that test hypotheses, control for variables and bias that will lead to reproducible results.

[edit on 2008/1/12 by GradyPhilpott]

This is where science finally finds God. Those "hidden variables" they talk about is the WILL OF G0D.

Hidden variables do not prove themselves the will of god, only fodder for weak minds.

hello
the answers that quantum physics are starting to reveal
are NOT new.
the science is at least thousands of years old if not eons.

it is the Science of nature
the science of the wave.
what gives us the ability to go quantum/dimensional is the doubling
of waves.

the big question is not What?
It is WHERE?
point of reference......point of view......space in time.......

Tap into (or create) a quantum string, and you will have the ability to
access its entire range of frequencies/octaves/harmonics/dimensions.

tap into a super string and you will have total access to all points
in the universe simultaneously.

its all about waves, how they propagate, and its all musical.
waves and their physical/matter counter-parts interact by harmonics
that are created by the various pathways that the wave travels.

it can also be intepreted by ratios.

sacred geometry are what i call geometric pathways(basicaly signal pathways just like in electronics)
for example... if you send the proper frequencies/pulses through
the "Trinity" sacred symbol, over a three dimensional torus
you can create a perfect vortex signal pathway that will enter
zero point.
zero point is simply the vacuum, the contraction-expansion point.
its the center of a galaxy,universe,black hole.

first off, a vortex, like a hurricane or a galaxy, is a tremendoulsy powerful
force.
the pathways that energy flows in a hurricane or galaxy are basically
the same pathway that can be created with the TRINITY symbol.

if you send the right series of waves on this path way, the Natual
doubling wave will reach quantum levels instantly(non- linear).

when a spiral such as a galaxy or a hurricane spin,
it will have one over all resonant frequency that is made up
of many frequencies....It will in essence have "One Voice"

this One resonant frequency is the key to its function.
why only one voice? doesn`t our universe expand and excelerlate?

Yes.. but only in the confines of its over all mass which is relative.
this over all mass/sphere has an over all tone.
and the waves expand from the dead center zero point
outwards to the edge of the sphere and then contracts back inward
to fold back into the zero point .
its a pulse..... a tone...a voice.

now the universe/conciousness is no different.
it has a one over all resonant vibration that is made up of an infinite
amount of wave interactions and their harmonic reactions.

I believe I may have found the point of reference that is required
to tap into this "One Voice"
the primmer... for lack of a better word.

it is the resonant frequency of 432hz , and all its octaves
and harmonic counterparts.

I`m not taking credit for its discovery, this knowlegde is at least thousands of years old.

heres just a few links on where some of these secrets lie.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.markorodin.com...
www.soulsofdistortion.nl...
www.meru.org...










[edit on 5-2-2008 by Maya432]

There are no sacred geomtries, only what you have chosen my friend. Check in to a standing wave and tell me what you think.

Here's a little thought experiment for you--you'll need a normal, six-sided die, two sheets of cardboard, and a square tube.
First, roll the die--you'll find that it's impossible for a human brain to predict how it will come up, because we lack the sheer brainpower and spatial awareness to calculate that.
Now, hold the die between the two pieces of cardboard, and let it slide down to the ground between them. You'll notice that two numbers have been eliminated from the list of possible results--the sides with a sheet of cardboard against them. With these two variables eliminated, it's easier to predict which side it will land on.
Finally, slide the die down the square tube--you should figure out before you even start that it'll land on whatever side went in first. That's because you control all variables that affect the behavior of the die. Well, most of them. See, according to conventional (if it can be called such) quantum physics, there's a one in several trillion chance that the die will spontaneously teleport into the middle of the Atlantic. Still, we've eliminated all variables that we can control, and there's no reason to think that the quantum variables couldn't be predicted if we had the technology to affect them.
Randomness is an illusion. Chaos is merely an order that we can't comprehend yet. Key word, yet.
EDIT: Also, in before missing sock jokes.

[edit on 19-4-2008 by Makoto]

reply to post by Makoto


Think the idea that we could theoretically predict the actions of all quantum phenomena if only our equipment/IQ were sophisticated/high enough is an old idea - really is a 19 th century Newtonian frame of mind. you dont have to go to Heisenberg even to disprove this - Godel s work literally proved that any mathematics sophisticated enough to be capable of addition and subtraction had inherent contradictions contained within their basic axioms that would eventually give rise to contradictory answers to certain functions. This discovery shook the foundations of science and mathematics of that time and cast a shadow over ambitious works such as the principia mathematica (Russell).
However; as I understand Heisenberg the fact that we could not predict both the location and postion of quanta was not due to sheer volume or equipment failures but due inherently to the nature of observation itself. I realize here that Heisenberg is kinda kickin it old school himself but I like his take on things.

i think we should stop were we are, at the pace were going we'll become gods soon enough

but from the limited understanding of quantum mechanics i have, it says that humans should be able to manipulate the world around us using our minds correct?

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Jungle, when something pops up that is threatening to topple people's world views, they lash out at it. It's only natural,I suppose.

This one sentence can be applied to about half the posts to all the subjects on ATS.!Nice answer.

The rate of information being absorbed by us is quite staggering when you think about it.Good thread.

It seems to me, after all is said, that there is some physical law that is still missing from our understanding.

reply to post by Buck Division


Hi BD,

I agree. Matter of fact there is some very basic understanding missing in a lot of physical science at the atomic and particle level.

Like what force keeps electrons spinning endlessly in their quantum orbits? Normally we would say this phenomenon violates the 1st and 2nd Laws of Thermodynamics. So there must be some force in place to maintain the constant motion of the electron. But what is it? Have you ever even heard of anyone asking this question before? Apparently it hasn't even been considered yet by mankind?

Here is a thought left to us by a well known ATSer who had an enormously popular thread till early this year: "In the world of Alice in Wonder Land, like we have here on earth and many places throughout the physical universes, few things make sense to the human mind, and never will. ." (by sleeper)

BTW I hope we prove sleeper wrong. But we haven't yet!

reply to post by DaRAGE


the problem with the tree theory is that even if a human does not observe it the tree is still very real and i use the term real very losely anyways what this leads me to believe that we are infact not the observer but are infact part of what is being observed so the real question is who is the ultimate observer who is standing back and collapsing the wave for of exsistance in its entirety. lmao kiss reality goodbye

As a Zen Buddhist would say, "You don't exist, so don't worry about it".

I thought quantum mechanics was difficult to understand. Interesting topic, but nearly impossible to get your head around it. Wouldn't surprise me if reality is simply a simulation running on a quantum super computer, where everything that is and everything that will be has already been calculated in advance.

www.unexplained-mysteries.com...
www.dharmaweb.org...

A for the tree theory, what about other life forms, aren't they conscious as well and our environment is literally teaming with life. Therefore the tree still exists regardless of whether it's being observed by a human or not.



[edit on 23-7-2008 by kindred]

According to the article the experiment was designed to change the direction of the mirror after the photons left the source. If the photons somehow knew the angle before they left, they don't need instantainious communications over distance.

Hello! That is not science, it is playing word games.
The knowledge before hand is exactly instantanious communications over distance, not of the photons but photons to mirrors. The logic of the premis is absurd, so the results and interpretation must also be absurd.

They should learn logic, reason and how to function from a model, they are so detatched from being able to conceptualize a physical model, that they flounder in the obscurities of language.

They have indeed said goodbye to reality!


[edit on 23-7-2008 by Cyberbian]

reply to post by kindred



lol according to quantum theory yes the other life forms here could be observers but it still doesnt answer the question of who is observing all of this if something as vast as the universe is to exsist in quantum theory then there must be an observer outside of our "universe" to collapse all the wave forms in our "universe" at the same time the hunt for the ultimate observer continues STAY TUNED lol


Oh and isnt the tree itself living weather or not consious of its exsistance it "lives" can the tree observe itself? dunno if that makes sence but who cares were talkin about quantum physics nothing makes any sence

[edit on 23-7-2008 by constantwonder]

It matters not, when I am gone none of this will have ever exsited.