We are here because we choose to be

Our lives are that which we choose if unconsciously. We are here because we choose to be. We experience what we choose. Life is a scratch box.

Is this all?

Originally posted by arius
Our lives are that which we choose if unconsciously. We are here because we choose to be. We experience what we choose. Life is a scratch box.

Thank you Arius, I would feel this to be true too.. Just in the sense of things, we are the product of that one out of millions to make it here. Our driving factor was that to make it to the egg first, we are those who where the fastest and smartest guys in the bunch.. How do you feel about the beginning of our lives, are we the sperm or the egg?
Or are we both until the conception is bound together?

We are here because we choose to be

Mmmmm. I remember this when it was on its first way around, decades ago. Guess I've finally lived long enough to see 'fashions' returning.

I don't agree with the OP.

What do you base your claim upon (re: We are here because we choose to be) ?

Do you have definitive proof that 'we are here because we choose to be' ?

What form of proof?

Nope. You don't have proof.

In other words, it's an opinion, based on something you heard or read (could be one of those recycled New Age things from the 70's and 80's).

It might have been better to have written: ' Are we here because we chose to be?' (always nice to give people the option).

Somewhere back in the 70's, someone was high and pondering their navel. Maybe they'd just made love with someone and now believed they were 'bound' to their 'soul-mate'.

The mood was mellow. Incense filled the air. And out of the depths of their shallow little brain, a thought struggled to the surface: ' We were meant to find each other ! We were BORN so we could find each other ! We must have loved each other in a previous lifetime ! We must have made a pact that SOME day, we'd return to earth to be together again !!!!!! '

Well, this felt SO profound. It simply HAD to be shared with the rest of the world ! So this person wrote one of those cutesy little books -- about the size of an apricot. And it was titled: We Are Here Because We CHOOSE To Be !! ' It sold millions. Even rivalled Stuart Wilde's latest, cute tiny-book of wisdom.

The 'author' of this little gem made a tidy fortune and moved to Sedona.

Because they'd split with their Muse, Inspiration and Soul Mate months earlier -- when that soul mate had demanded 50% of profits from the tiny-book sales.

BUT ..... the seed had been released and germinated and bloomed in the minds of many of those who purchased and read tiny-books of wisdom. And so 'We are here because we choose to be' became accepted as truth.

And why?

Because some people cannot tolerate their life unless they feel 'in control' of it -- in control of every aspect of it.

Which is the opposite of what we're advised to do: we're advised to roll with the punches, go with the flow and 'let go'. Or, as they used to say back in the tiny-book days: 'Hang loose'.

Or, as advised by most religions, entrust ourselves to and have faith in --- a higher power. To credit a higher power with our existence and reason for being. To consign ourselves to that higher power or highest good.

But that's asking too much from some. They aren't prepared to credit a higher power with anything, least of all their all-important existence on earth ! Oh no! THEY 'chose' themselves into being. THEY are all-important.

Interesting how those who insist they are here 'because they chose to be' don't follow their assertions through to the end, through all the ups and downs.

Weird huh? When they're 'down' --- the 'someone else' is to blame.

When they're 'up' ---- then all credit goes to themselves.

Someday, someone should maybe write a VERY cute tiny-book, entitled:
' We Are Here Because Two People Had Sex'.

At least they'd be able to prove their claims, lol.

(Written tongue in cheek. No offence intended )

i choose not to be here.
i choose to be over there......... without exerting myself.
not happening.
your words are of course in some way a paradox.
but more like a fart in the wind. no offence intended.
i said the same sort of thing not to long ago and thought i was original.

if you can think of anything a human can do. to another person. or to themselves. anything at all. chances are its been done before. or at least thought of.
kazillions of people have lived before us. kazillibillions. kazillionbajilliongajillion people have experience life. few. very few experience something first.

Dock6,

That's a nice, fun imagination you have going there. Purely conjecture, but cute.

Perhaps as an individual you feel powerless. Take a moment and feel everything around you. Is this reality not existing because we collectively chose and guided its every moment of development?

There is a strong tendency to ridicule the "new age" philosophical reflections as "hippyism" and "delusion". If you have not regarded them this way yet, you are getting near.

Examine that thought process. It is a dismissmal of a person's realization out of hand, without the application of logic besides what you may see as 'realist common sense' - of which there is no such thing besides your opinion. One that you claim is the be and end all of logical reality.

Which statement is the most illogical? The amusing 'spiritual' reflections, or the thoughtless dismissal and clear projection of superiority of judgement?

If it doesn't fit in your neatly labelled box of known reality, you must communicate that it is nonesense. I dare say I cannot imagine a viewpoint more ignorant and closed-minded than that.

Perhaps you should step away from the jokes - and approach this with the very gravity it deserves, before the butt of the joke becomes you.

[edit on 25/4/07 by SteveR]

That was a nice waste of time

a bigger waste of time is acknowledging that

Spearhead: one day you'll have to explain how your post relates to the OP. Take your time though ....

Now, SteveR:- well, your post was amazing as an almost visual illustration of someone travelling from attempted humour to outright rage and visciousness in 0 to 9 seconds flat ! Honda would LOVE to have YOU under their bonnet. Woweee !

Basically, you resent anyone who ....

Nope. I think you resent not just 'anyone' but EVERYone, or at least you did when you penned what you believed to be your 'authoritative' response.

Why not just respond to the OP ?

And why not begin by demonstrating whatever evidence you're able to amass to prove -- not merely 'state' .... but PROVE that 'we're here because we choose to be' ?

Waiting in anticipation .....

Originally posted by Dock6
Nope. I think you resent not just 'anyone' but EVERYone, or at least you did when you penned what you believed to be your 'authoritative' response.

I am glad you survived my abusive diatribe. I guess the mods missed that one. A nice excuse for failing to address the points in my post. You are still lacking any semblance of reason.

Originally posted by Dock6
Why not just respond to the OP ?

Scroll up.

Originally posted by Dock6
And why not begin by demonstrating whatever evidence you're able to amass to prove -- not merely 'state' .... but PROVE that 'we're here because we choose to be'

Dock6, you are mistaken to beleive this is something that others must prove to you. I gave you a pointer, now open your mind.

Perhaps then you will encourage a more detailed response.

Ok, SteveR: let's look at what you term your 'points' within your earlier post:

Perhaps as an individual you feel powerless. Take a moment and feel everything around you. Is this reality not existing because we collectively chose and guided its every moment of development?

Was that one of the points?

Sounds more like questions to me: questions based in your personal beliefs.

Your personal beliefs may appear valid and conclusive to you, but to others, they are simply 'someones' personal beliefs. As such, they have no greater value and/or validity than anyone else's beliefs.

In short: just because you feel a certain way about something does not require others to accept or share your beliefs or 'feelings'. So that's probably something for you to take on board.

Examine that thought process. It is a dismissmal of a person's realization out of hand, without the application of logic besides what you may see as 'realist common sense' - of which there is no such thing besides your opinion. One that you claim is the be and end all of logical reality.

Now, in your quote above, you dictate that others should not do as you do.

Because ..... YOU leapt to dismiss my opinion/beliefs/point of view 'out of hand' within the posts you for some reason directed to me. So .... dictorial, imperious AND hypocritical !

Which statement is the most illogical? The amusing 'spiritual' reflections, or the thoughtless dismissal and clear projection of superiority of judgement?

Re: your remark above: What are you talking about? Are you sure it was my post to which you responded?

Or is it yet another case of your insisting others should not do as you do? Have you read the post you directed to me? Do you recognise in your own post the very attitudes and manner to which you claim to object ? If not, you're either dishonest or have difficulties in comprehending the content of your own post.

If it doesn't fit in your neatly labelled box of known reality, you must communicate that it is nonesense. I dare say I cannot imagine a viewpoint more ignorant and closed-minded than that.

Again, what are you talking about?
Maybe take your own advice ... that same unsoughtadvice which you're so keen to offer others?



And finally, this gem:

There is a strong tendency to ridicule the "new age" philosophical reflections as "hippyism" and "delusion". If you have not regarded them this way yet, you are getting near.

SteveR: I am free to regard anything I please in whichever way I choose.

Furthermore, I was right there with the new-age when it really was 'new'.



So now we come to the crux of the matter: you hold certain opinions and beliefs. Obviously they are crucial to you --- so crucial to your equilibrium that you become frantic the moment they're challenged.

This indicates extreme insecurity. Insecurity creates fear in you. Your fear arouses your anger. Your anger is then directed at anyone who expresses an alternate belief.

If you were secure in your beliefs and opinions however, you would not feel threatened by the beliefs of others.

Clearly, you've invested a great deal in the hope that 'we're here because we choose to be' is a fact. You obviously need to believe that 'we're here because we choose to be'.

So great is your need to believe this --- yet so unsure are you that it's true -- that you're attempting to establish it as true by attacking anyone (in this instance myself) who questions the bald statement: 'We're here because we choose to be'.

At bottom, you've convinced yourself that if you can 'silence' or 'intimidate' me, then you will have made true the statement: 'We're here because we choose to be'.

Life doesn't work like that. If something's true, then it is. It will easily withstand opposition. If it's not, it's not and you'll have to learn to deal with that.



Now we can look again at your question:

Is this reality not existing because we collectively chose and guided its every moment of development?

That, SteveR, is a theory: an opinion .... not an established fact. It is most certainly open to speculation. There are many who would dispute it and there may be many in support.

In the final analysis however, it's no more than speculation in itself --- and clearly you're aware of that, seeing you posed it as a question.



I'm assuming you've researched the work of Helen Wambaugh? In which case you'll be aware that during the mass hypnosis sessions she held regarding the possibility of 'past lives', a sizeable number of subjects reported that they had been highly reluctant -- totally unwilling in many claimed instances --- to inhabit their own bodies.

And again, a sizeable number of subjects insisted they had not wanted to return to a physical body/life, but had been coerced, persuaded to do so by others, for one reason or another. In short: they had *not* chosen to be here: had come here very reluctantly and in many instances regretted doing so.

Coercion and persuasion are not tantamount to 'choice'. If you were coerced or persuaded (whilst remaining highly reluctant) to sign a purchase contract, you could, under law, have that contract declared null and void.

The blanket statement within the OP: ' We're here because we choose to be' does not speak for everyone. Clearly it is unprovable. Clearly it is conjecture/theory/opinion/personal belief.

It's the same as if someone stated, ' All Volkswagons are red'. Clearly all Volkswagons are not red, despite that some may believe or wish they were.

Would you have directed the same comments to me (as contained in your posts here) if I had disputed the claim: ' All Volkswagons are red' ?

Does the above example illustrate to you just how inappropriate and unjustifiable were your comments to me, regarding the OP's unequivocal claim: ' We're here because we choose to be.' ?

Further: WHY did you critique my post, instead of -- more appropriately -- responding directly to the OP ?

Please read the following quotes: they're yours by the way.

In the first, you state that I must 'prove' WHY I do not agree that 'We are here because we choose to be', as shown by your quoted insistence below:

If it doesn't fit in your neatly labelled box of known reality, you must communicate that it is nonesense

Yet when I requested you prove the truth of 'We're here because we choose to be', you did an about-face, as shown in your evasiveness in the following remark:

Dock6, you are mistaken to beleive this is something that others must prove to you

Do you suspect you might have accidently swallowed too many Self-Importance tablets ?

Thanks Dock6.

Originally posted by Dock6
Your personal beliefs may appear valid and conclusive to you, but to others, they are simply 'someones' personal beliefs. As such, they have no greater value and/or validity than anyone else's beliefs.

The validity of an opinion is affected by its ultimate truth - we live in a reality of truths and fallacies. That said, we are all in a position with a certain degree of unknowing, and would be wise to reflect that in our beliefs ... and open mindedness.

All I have seen yet is closed mindedness, counter-psychology, and rebuttal. Life is most productive as a collaboration friend.

My point in the text you quoted of me, was not to impose a belief. You entirely missed the suggestion - an exercise which you can perform yourself. I will requote "Take a moment and feel everything around you".

Approach matters of 'spirit' with the importance they deserve (how you can play a serious rebuttal without at least trying) and then we will have a common ground for discussion.

Originally posted by Dock6
In short: just because you feel a certain way about something does not require others to accept or share your beliefs or 'feelings'.

Sure.. but I'm led to beleive the requirement will not manifest from just SteveR.

Originally posted by Dock6
Because ..... YOU leapt to dismiss my opinion/beliefs/point of view 'out of hand' within the posts you for some reason directed to me. So .... dictorial, imperious AND hypocritical !

Your out of hand, jesting dismissal of the OP nullified your counter argument. I do not beleive it was dictatorial or hypocritical of me to state this. I wish to inform you that by unblocking your mind, and automatic defenses of which constitute no real logic, you may open up into a whole new world. You have no obligation or expectation to view things the way I do or the OP does, we would simply appreciate your respect and serious examination. Rather unlike the anti-hippy diatribe you posted earlier.

Originally posted by Dock6
own post the very attitudes and manner to which you claim to object ? If not, you're either dishonest or have difficulties in comprehending the content of your own post.

As stated, I was responding to an argument (yours) that was based upon attacking personality and cultural traits in a very mocking and disrespectful manner. Not befitting of your intellect, Sir. I was responding to something of non-substance as the only point you had was to attack a person, while you were responding to a post of open and honest inquiry. No I do not find a similarity.

Originally posted by Dock6
that same unsoughtadvice which you're so keen to offer others?

The bold and italic does not help me to read your posts any better.

Unsought as it may seem, I choose to offer anyway. If you find use of it, good, if not, allow me the liberty of expression.

Originally posted by Dock6
SteveR: I am free to regard anything I please in whichever way I choose.

Yes, that is your bestowed freedom.

Originally posted by Dock6
Furthermore, I was right there with the new-age when it really was 'new'.

Doesn't matter. The views in this thread should be considered independently - your unwarranted affiliations serve only to dispute instead of discuss.

Originally posted by Dock6
So now we come to the crux of the matter: you hold certain opinions and beliefs. Obviously they are crucial to you --- so crucial to your equilibrium that you become frantic the moment they're challenged.

This indicates extreme insecurity. Insecurity creates fear in you. Your fear arouses your anger. Your anger is then directed at anyone who expresses an alternate belief.

I'm glad you feel so confident as to make a snap assessment over a few words of someone you don't know. That's great. My concern is that you take on board some open mindedness and reconsider venturing into the paranormal forum for more than laughs and jokes. If you can't, that's fine and I will leave be, but do not berate me for confronting this behavior you post in a public forum.

Originally posted by Dock6
If you were secure in your beliefs and opinions however, you would not feel threatened by the beliefs of others.

I'm not threatened, I'm anxious to get the ball rolling.

Originally posted by Dock6
So great is your need to believe this --- yet so unsure are you that it's true -- that you're attempting to establish it as true by attacking anyone (in this instance myself) who questions the bald statement: 'We're here because we choose to be'.

You did not question it dude.

Originally posted by Dock6
At bottom, you've convinced yourself that if you can 'silence' or 'intimidate' me, then you will have made true the statement: 'We're here because we choose to be'.

As above, I'd appreciate your co-operation, however critical it need be. At least establish some genuine debate..

Originally posted by Dock6
Life doesn't work like that. If something's true, then it is. It will easily withstand opposition. If it's not, it's not and you'll have to learn to deal with that.

Agreed.

Originally posted by Dock6
In the final analysis however, it's no more than speculation in itself --- and clearly you're aware of that, seeing you posed it as a question.

A question for you to think upon. Actually question the inner workings of your mind and soul - that is what I am asking, although I concede you may not know or understand what this means.

Originally posted by Dock6
I'm assuming you've researched the work of Helen Wambaugh? In which case you'll be aware that during the mass hypnosis sessions she held regarding the possibility of 'past lives', a sizeable number of subjects reported that they had been highly reluctant -- totally unwilling in many claimed instances --- to inhabit their own bodies.

Not familiar with the work. Not convinced that any decision, even under duress, is not a choice. Would enjoy further detail.

Originally posted by Dock6
but had been coerced, persuaded to do so by others, for one reason or another. In short: they had *not* chosen to be here: had come here very reluctantly and in many instances regretted doing so.

I fail to understand how one can regret something that has "*not*" been chosen. Ofcourse they made a choice, you think they were physically pushed in there by armed spectral guards?

Originally posted by Dock6
The blanket statement within the OP: ' We're here because we choose to be' does not speak for everyone. Clearly it is unprovable. Clearly it is conjecture/theory/opinion/personal belief.

I submit that you just think it is and have no real way of knowing (yet) if it actually IS reality or not.

Originally posted by Dock6
Further: WHY did you critique my post, instead of -- more appropriately -- responding directly to the OP ?

As stated, I did reply to the OP previously. Just scroll up.

Originally posted by Dock6

Dock6, you are mistaken to beleive this is something that others must prove to you

Do you suspect you might have accidently swallowed too many Self-Importance tablets ?

No-one can make you understand anything Dock6, whether it is true or false or subjective, understanding of any premise comes from within. Hope this is clearer for you now.

Thanks.

quote originally posted by SteveR:

Is this reality not existing because we collectively chose and guided its every moment of development?

Back when the New age was new, an associate who'd just returned from another 'new age seminar' breathlessly advised me that, " We choose everything that happens to us -- WE create what we call 'reality' ! "

At that moment, the tv-news announced a plane had crashed, killing all 197 people on board.

I asked my associate: ' Did all the people on that plane 'cause' it to crash, do you think? Did they create that 'reality' ?

My associate nodded emphatically: ' Yes. Yes. They did. That's how it works'.

I asked: " So what you're claiming is --- everyone on board that plane, including the pilots and cabin crew, co-ordinated and organised for themselves to die -- to die in that plane crash?"

My associate again nodded in agreement.

" OK." I said, " What you're claiming is that people from all over the country -- all strangers and all with different sets of circumstances -- booked tickets on that flight. They didn't know each other. They didn't communicate with each other beforehand and ask each other if they wanted or planned to die. Instead, 200 strangers --- all of whom wished to die --- intinctively booked that flight. Because they were going to create a reality in which they all died in a plane crash.

And at the same time, the pilots and cabin crew somehow 'created a reality' in which they would be assigned to this 'death trip'. Is that what you're saying? That all those peoples' minds somehow connected with each other beforehand, so that their schedules and lives would lead them to that one plane ? "

Again, my associate nodded in triumphant agreement. " Yes," she said, "That's how it works. They created that plane crash. They all wanted to die, so that's the reality they created. There are no 'accidents'. We create those situations which others call 'accidents'."

" Ok," I said, " But what if just ONE person on that plane did NOT want to die? You claim that we 'create reality'. Therefore that one person who did NOT want to die would 'create a reality' in which the plane landed safely. And the wishes of that ONE individual are as valid as those of the people who DID want to die.

Don't you see? It means that the plane could NOT crash and kill everyone on board, because one of the passengers was 'creating the reality' of a safe landing ! Which means that the OTHER 199 people --- those who 'chose' to die --- would have to 'create ANOTHER reality': one in which ANOTHER plane would crash. This would require those 199 people to instinctively all find their way --- all at the same time --- to ANOTHER plane: one which would crash this time, providing none on board were again 'creating the reality' of a safe landing. "

My New age associate stared blankly. The new age seminar she'd attended hadn't advised of such a situation. Finally, she said, " I suppose you're right. I hadn't thought of that. "

And this is the spanner in the 'creating reality' works, isn't it?

If we look again at SteveR's 'suggestion', what do we see?

Is this reality not existing because we collectively chose and guided its every moment of development?

The salient phrase is: ' we collectively chose'. collectively !


In order to 'create reality', we must be in accord: we must unanimously AGREE !

Let's expand on this a little. There we are, 'creating reality'. 'We' unanimously agree there will be a vehicle accident and some deaths. (I'm not sure if the 'we' involves say, 400 of us, or if 'we' means agreement between all six billion of us -- you'd need to ask those who believe 'we create reality').

Ok. We have decided there will be 'some deaths'.

Now, I'm not going to volunteer anyone from MY family for the death quota. How about you? You want 'us' to kill some of YOUR family?

But wait ! Some of 'us' want their in-laws to die.

Others of 'us' want their horrible neighbours to die in this accident reality that 'we' are 'creating'.

Gee. 'We' just can't seem to reach an agreement !

And hell --- there are millions of accident 'realities' that 'we' need to create every second --- I mean look at the news reports ! All those accidents *ARE* happening --- and according to the OP and SteveR, WE are 'creating' those accident realities.

So is anyone able to explain just HOW 'we' are 'creating' those accident 'realities' when we can't even agree WHO amongst us should die -- or be maimed or burned or electrocuted or robbed or shot or stabbed or .... ?

Collectively creating reality !!!!

Does it work the same way as how we 'collectively' fail to reach agreement on just about EVERYthing, ALL the time ?

For example, which of 'us' created the reality of the Iraq war?

Which of 'us' created the reality of 9/11 ?

Who amongst 'us' 'created the reality' that was JFK's murder?

Were YOU one the 'us' who 'created the reality' of the bombs which pulverised Hiroshima?

Or were you amongst the 'us' who 'created the reality' of the baby-seal slaughter, the whale slaughter, the pedophile rape of that child in the next town ?

HEY ! I don't LIKE you guys for 'creating those realities' !

And I can tell you right now that I did NOT agree for those 'realities' to be 'created'.

And as I did NOT form part of those 'created realities' --- HOW on earth DID you get away with 'creating those realities' *IF* 'reality creating' can only be conducted by unanimous agreement on the part of EVERYone ?

Uh huh. So you're saying that only SOME of us 'create reality', whilst the wishes of others of 'us' are overridden ? Is that what you're saying?

Well, that's not a collective at all, is it? It's FACTIONS ! Same old same old.

Now let's become more specific:- WHO is 'creating the reality' that is the war in Iraq? There are many who wish it would end. There are plenty who wish it to continue.

WHO's 'reality' receives priority in this instance: those who wish to 'create' a 'reality of peace and ceasefire' ? Or those who wish to 'create a reality' of continuation of war ?

Where does 'collectivism' enter the equation?

Or is it being suggested that on one side there are those 'creating a peace reality' and on the other there are those 'creating reality of war' ?

I see. So there are opposing 'realities' being 'created' right now, are there ?

If so ---- it means there is a 'war of realities' in progress, right ?

Alright, so we're back to: WHICH 'created reality' WINS ?

And WHO DECIDES which 'created reality' should gain ascendency ??????

Also, *IF* it's claimed that there are TWO 'realities' being 'created' by two separate factions with regards the war in Iraq ---- it must be that disagreement between the 'reality creators' exists !

And if 2 different versions of 'reality creators' exist simultaneously ---- then 200, 1,000, 2 billion, 6 billion separate 'reality creators' are free to exist.

Which brings us right back to 6 billion individual people --- all 'creating reality' simultaneously, right now. Each with their individual opinion and version of 'right/wrong'. Most of them disagreeing on continual basis.

Gee. That sounds very much like 'ordinary reality', doesn't it?

And if (despite all the above) it's STILL claimed we 'collectively create reality', then clearly we're not to be admired: clearly we're not FIT to 'create reality'. Because this 'reality' it's claimed WE 'created' --- is NASTY. It's cruel. Which means WE'RE nasty and cruel.

How come we haven't 'created' a better 'reality' ?

Oh, and who wants to volunteer their family for the next accident that WE 'create' ?

SteveR: you're not posting in response to anything I've said. You're simply using my post and presence in this thread for your own self-aggrandisment.


You refuse to acknowledge your errors -- just as you refuse to concede your entire approach has been antagonistic, illogical, hypocritical.

To begin with, why did you post directly to me?

I suggest it was to protect at all costs your desperately held beliefs.

And you keep digging your hole deeper with each illogical, nonsensical post you offer.

You were/are free to respond to the OP --- as are we all -- as am I.

Instead, you attempted to critique my post (which WAS in response to the OP) and now you attempt to act in the role of someone marking a term paper.

It's presumptuous and affected and shows you post in the spirit of mean-mindedness: of someone who refuses to 'be wrong' despite the clear evidence of your errors.

I did not and do not invite your personal critique of my posts. That is not your role here.

If you wish to 'gain respect and attention' from an unseen audience, kindly do it openly, instead of utilizing me as a means of self-aggrandisement.

You demand (?) that I 'prove' my beliefs and opinions re: the OP --- yet you decline to do likewise with regard to your own ?

Pride comes before the fall and nothing I can say apparently will succeed in persuading you to avoid that fall.

So please go ahead. Post to the void.

You're desperately attempting to play bait & switch and it's lowly.

It's clear that you're unable to differentiate between what you WISH were 'fact' from 'fact' itself.

You do not possess the authority to nominate what 'is' and what 'is not' the truth / what 'should' and what 'should not' be accepted as true by others.

All you have is your belief. It's yours. You're free to believe whatever you choose.

As am I. As is anyone who posts in this forum.

No-one in this thread is at all required to 'answer' to you, despite your self-appointed role of defender of the statement: ' We are here because we choose to be'.

No-one is required to justify his/her beliefs to you.

The content of my posts makes my position clear re: the OP, despite your pretence of confusion -- a pretence you're using to provide yourself a platform, obviously.

I have to say this: I like this Dock6 guy.

His original and current responses all maintain pertinence to the OP, and he isn't afraid to call out when he smells something a bit fishy.

Well done Dock, I tend to agree with your original assessment of this thread.

Originally posted by arius
Our lives are that which we choose if unconsciously. We are here because we choose to be. We experience what we choose. Life is a scratch box.

No..... no ........ nooooooooooo.... you are so wrong. We are here because we were created to be here by the mighty God Jesus, the Jews.

We are given life so we can learn HIS ultimate LOVE!!!!!!!!!
But. some of us don't do that and choose the devil way AND THEN ONLY they experience bad things.

Listen, if you are obedient, you live a good life. Work hard from 9 to 5, pay your TAX! We will protect you well!

Dock6 is a good sheep, and he follows a good shepherd. We love those sheeps. He is just so obedient and never ever realize the differences of intentionally choose and un-intentionally choose, he is so good and so obedient.
We always like good sheeps who can't differentiate awake and sleep.

Oh my God Jesus, what is true is wrong, what is wrong is true, you are the only truth.

Originally posted by Dock6
You refuse to acknowledge your errors -- just as you refuse to concede your entire approach has been antagonistic, illogical, hypocritical.

Excuse me? I have not asked you to do any such thing. Despite spending my time constructing for you a logical explanation, you still have not decided to address, neither have you decided to respect your fellow poster.

Originally posted by Dock6
I suggest it was to protect at all costs your desperately held beliefs.

Scroll up to the second post in this thread.

Originally posted by Dock6
In order to 'create reality', we must be in accord: we must unanimously AGREE ! ... Now, I'm not going to volunteer anyone from MY family for the death quota. How about you? You want 'us' to kill some of YOUR family?

Everyone on the planet must unanimously agree to cause a change? I want to kill some of your family? What in the devil's name are you blathering on about now. You have refused flat out to collaborate and entertain a logical discussion, I thus have nothing more to offer.

Thanks.

Good luck.

I always digged reading what Dock6 writes. He's always with that...logic thing...& common sense. The both of which I admire.

Anyway...I choose to assume that by "here", you do not mean; on Earth Steve, or rather...where on Earth. How we live & such.

This is true....to a point. We choose the lives we live...but only to a point. I'm only 19 & I know quite well, some things are wayyyyy out of your control.

For example...a perfect kicker that plays a part in where everyone ends in their lives is...their parents. We do not choose our parents huh?

But maybe you're talking about reincarnation...where what we do then, determines how we live now. Wish I could remember what I did then. LOL

Dock6....thumbs up!!!!!

Thank you Arius. Your comments are quite accurate, but sadly fly over the heads of most of us.

These are the teachings of Buddhism too.

Post Script:

As one can read from the squabble above most choose to argue and debate endlessly about the size of a pinhead, because that inflates their ego.

[edit on 27-5-2007 by sy.gunson]

Originally posted by Dock6
But wait ! Some of 'us' want their in-laws to die.

Please allow me to chime in.

From the words that I have read it seems that the OP is generalizing and simplifying a pretty vague proverb. I believe that is where the confusion sets in.

You said:

Our lives are that which we choose if unconsciously. We are here because we choose to be. We experience what we choose. Life is a scratch box.

And then SteveR, from what I could gather, was being sarcastic when asking:

Is that All?

Now maybe you didn't catch the sarcasm, and perhaps it wasn't neccesary, but your OP was penetratingly vague. It's almost like, yeah, so what else you got to balloon that idea?

From that point you guys seemingly were debating the same idea but from different angles. Why? You know why.

But through longer discussion the OP was able to indicate his depth of comprehension of such a proverb. That is where I get calling it a simple generalization. First of all the real definition of the subject you are discussion is an infinite vernacular that our finite minds can't detail. So complexity is what I would want to see from a thread starting with, "we are here because we choose to be."

IMO, your definition, using the "new age" friend was counter-productive in expalning your point.

Here is the bottom line: What you say is true, but if you're not at a certain level of awareness to see it in its organic structure, that idea is uncomprehensible. So maybe SteveR was hoping you had some timeless detail to surround yourself with.

But I do appreciate your thread.

AAC




[edit on 27-5-2007 by AnAbsoluteCreation]

[edit on 27-5-2007 by AnAbsoluteCreation]