Theory: Mankind is Growing Stupid

tha fact that this is even a discussion is odd ...you guys r arguing about a movie its not some deep theory but comlete fiction a comedy infact. i doubt mankind will ever get that stupid without someone stepping in to stop it. i think its more of a metephore for the developed world as a whole .since the dawn of the industrial age mankind has been developing means to make life easy. we are lazy and yes there is some stupid people but im pretty sure we had those ever since man walked upright .to say that we will get that dumb is to say you are not smart enough now to step in and teach you children the basics from them to grow and learn on there own.you would think its in government best intrest to keep us smart for jobs in the growing tech agriculture and aerospace industrys among others so i doubt they would let that happen cause we all know if the government wants somthing they get it...........but it was a good movie luke wilson is funny


[edit on 24-4-2007 by lavishplanet]

[edit on 24-4-2007 by lavishplanet]

[edit on 24-4-2007 by lavishplanet]

Ok, at this point, I must iterate my original point which was that different people are good and bad at different things, and that a well functioning society requires a diversity in this respect.
But, to add something, IMO, the thing about knowledge vs. Intelligence is pretty valid. The education system, apart from Doctorate and Masters, largely consists of people learning"knowledge" and using this to jump through hoops(exams, papers etc.) set by those who are accepted as being intelligent.
Basically, most people are not taught properly to think for themselves, come to their own conclusions and to be able to evidence these or rationally and logically apply reasoning to them to state their point of view. Ther exists an accepted "corpus of knowledge", albeit expanding, that defines largely in societies view what "intelligence" is.
Intelligence is the ability to question, reason, and also to reject reason when necessary. These are the things IMO that make somebody successful, along with motivation etc.
I`m glad people feel free to put their own POV`s without feeling that they will be branded *ist here.
Also, I am somewhat in concurrence that society promotes a culture of intellectual laziness in many ways, mainly focussed at those who are not "expected" to do any better than be a BabyMachine or Blue Collar worker, for example.
The most creative person in the world is somebody called Tony Buzan, according to the Guiness Book of Records. Who do you think created the test to measure creativity? Yep, you guessed it.

By the Way, as somebody already stated, Information is the key, and those who hold it have the power usually. But, this doesn`t mean they`re more intelligent. IMO, the relationship between stupid and clever people is almost entirely dependent on the cultural, political and economic context of any one arena. Nothing has changed since humankind`s infancy except the accelerated spread of information, and that arguably too, considering the fact that people used to communicate complex emotions and perhaps ideas through what we would now call off-ball or unconventional means.

People were making tools 750000 years ago. That`s a long time. Point being, did they need anything better? apparently we now have more leisure time, and will have even more so in the future than ever before...But it`s simply NOT TRUE!! Ask your parents or some old people about this, esp. in relation to all the labour saving devices. We should all be playing golf or whatever 12 hours a day by now and working 8 hours a week, if what we were told and are STILL being told is true about this. Granted, 1% of the popn. probably are, but 2% probably were 200 years ago.
Please tell me my observations are wrong...!?

[edit on 24-4-2007 by MistahBear]

I find the delineations of class aren't accurate reflections of intelligence, to define people by their neglect or disadvantage is rather a Nazi like sentiment - I prefer to think of it as the stupefaction. It's obvious the value of money is predicated by it's scarcity - so those who reflect that loss are the martyrs for those who look smart.

In the words of Forest Gump

Stupid is as stupid does.


A smart world takes care of its own.


[edit on 24-4-2007 by clearwater]

SpeakerofTruth: I can guarantee you, that the 60% of the population that has never read a book, isn't likely to survive, regardless if they "know how to bait a hook" or not.

Originally posted by MistahBear People were making tools 750000 years ago. That`s a long time. Point being, did they need anything better? apparently we now have more leisure time, and will have even more so in the future than ever before...But it`s simply NOT TRUE!! Ask your parents or some old people about this, esp. in relation to all the labour saving devices. We should all be playing golf or whatever 12 hours a day by now and working 8 hours a week, if what we were told and are STILL being told is true about this. Granted, 1% of the popn. probably are, but 2% probably were 200 years ago.
Please tell me my observations are wrong...!?

[edit on 24-4-2007 by MistahBear]

First of all, I would bet that a lot of people who are skilled at fishing are illiterate. In my case, I'd rather learn to fish than to read if basic survival was my goal. If you can't eat, you can't read.
And regarding labour saving devices and their timesaving effectiveness, I agree. Who are some people who you rarely see in a rush, and never hurrying about trying to get everything done in the day? The Amish... isn't it funny how the people who shun technology seem to be able to savour the day, and don't need to scurry around to get by?
Intelligence is over-rated. I prefer a good heart, compassion, and similar traits. Hitler was a genius. But I also agree that, in the west at least, folks are getting less intelligent. Just watch an old 40's movie and listen to the dialogue. People could talk faster, use a wider vocabulary, and just appear sharper than they now do.
It doesn't look good for the future.

While there has apparently been a modest drop in IQ among the dominant ethnic groups in developed countries since the end of the Nineties, such a short period of time is insufficient to extrapolate longterm trends or to even know if such a decline has in fact occurred. A longterm decline in intelligence would run contrary to just about everything we know about anything. Seeing as that the factor which probably has the greatest impact on intelligence is nutrition, it is hard to believe that life expectancy could be forecast to steadily increase in the next century (the only dolts who I could find who did not believe that it would are the overpopulation crowd, I've thoroughly refuted that theory on numerous occasions, my latest succinct post can be found here: www.abovepolitics.com...) and intelligence would somehow decrease, unless some magic way is found for people to have good health without good nutrition. Hell, maybe nanomachines will let us pig out with no consequences, but if we've gotten smart enough to get to that point, how could IQ be low? Don't give me any gray goo crap, it's been refuted here: en.wikipedia.org...

I find this article to be especially helpful:
en.wikipedia.org...

When you consider the poisons that we ingest everyday, it's no surprise that the population is growing stupid. Here is a list of information I've pulled together:

Water fluoridation is prevalent in most cities even though there are no dental or medical benefits derived from the ingestion of fluorosilicic acid. Fluoride is actually a class 2 poison and an EPA-regulated toxic waste chemical. Source (NewsTarget): Fluoride conference reveals fraudulent science behind mass fluoridation; fluoride policy is a public fraud.

A CDC report is also stating that trace amounts of arsenic are entering drinking water by means of the chemicals used in fluoridation.
Source (NewsTarget): Fluoride used in municipal water supplies found contaminated with arsenic

Antidepressant drugs are also now being found in the drinking water. Source (NewsTarget): Antidepressant drugs found in drinking water; pharmaceuticals have now become environmental pollutants

Mercury poisoning has been linked to cardiovascular disease, autism, seizures, mental retardation, hyperactivity, dyslexia and many other nervous system conditions. Some common sources of mercury include dental fillings (dentists call them "silver fillings" to conceal the fact that they're made with about 40% mercury), various vaccines and certain fish contaminated by polluted ocean waters.
Source (NewsTarget): The great thimerosal cover-up: Mercury, vaccines, autism and your child's health

Organophosphates are used extensively in agriculture to keep pests off fruit and vegetable crops, but are hazardous to children's health. Environmental advocates say the chemicals have been linked to neurological and fertility problems, as well as cancer.
Source (NewsTarget): EPA caves to industry pressure, approves continued use of 31 toxic pesticides that harm children

People who have been exposed to pesticides run a 70 percent higher risk of developing Parkinson's disease than people who aren't exposed to pesticides. There is no such thing as a 'safe' level of a toxic pesticide chemical.
Source (NewsTarget): Low-dose pesticide exposure boosts Parkinson's risk by 70 percent

Children exposed to toxic industrial chemicals (mercury, lead, PCBs, toluene and arsenic) during fetal development often show signs of attention deficit disorder, autism, cerebral palsy and developmental delays later in life. When infants nurse, the chemicals are passed to the baby in the breast milk at 100 times the level of the mother's exposure.
Source (NewsTarget): Industrial chemicals causing pandemic of brain disorders in children

Chemicals in personal products: Deodorants contain aluminum that causes Alzheimer's disease, shampoos contain solvents that cause liver toxicity, toothpaste contains non-organic fluoride (causes osteoporosis), mouthwash with aspartame causes brain tumors (the ones using saccharin cause cancer), perfume or cologne contains highly toxic cancer-causing chemicals. Antibacterial soap is made with a potent nerve chemical similar to agent orange. Dishwashing detergent coats our dishes with additional cancer-causing chemicals. The chemical 1,4 DCB is used in room fresheners.
Source (NewsTarget): www.newstarget.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">Highly toxic chemicals are found in laundry detergents, dryer sheets, deodorants, perfumes, soaps and other household products

Aspartame is an excitotoxin, that is, a neurotoxic chemical, and it breaks down in your body into both formic acid and formaldehyde. Aspartame can worsen depression in those already suffering from the condition, cause weight gain and insomnia, worsen diabetic control, aggravate multiple sclerosis and other neurological diseases, and causes migraine headaches. By the way... it was Donald Rumsfeld who helped push aspartame through the FDA to get it legalized as a food additive.
Source (NewsTarget): The mass poisoning of humanity: an exploration of human stupidity

MSG (monosodium glutamate) has been associated with reproductive disorders, migraine headaches, permanent damage to the endocrine system leading to obesity and other serious disorders. It is used by food manufacturers as a taste enhancer but is an ingredient known to cause nerve damage by overexciting nerves. This is exactly how MSG enhances the taste of foods: by overexciting the taste buds on your tongue. MSG is also hidden in other ingredients so you don't know it's there. Source (NewsTarget): Food manufacturers hide dangerous ingredients in everyday foods by using confusing terms on the label

Hydrogenated oil promotes cancer, birth defects, cardiovascular disease and many other diseases that ultimately kill people. It also carries an increased risk of a number of degenerative chronic diseases including heart disease, diabetes, birth defects, and cancer.
Source (NewsTarget): The health dangers of trans fats have been known for decades, yet food companies still poison customers with hydrogenated oils

Nitrosamines are Cancer-causing compounds that are so toxic to biological systems that they are actually used to give lab rats cancer in laboratory tests. Yet this ingredient (listed as sodium nitrate) carries absolutely no warning on food labels. Look for sodium nitrate on bacon, ham, pepperoni, and other packaged meat products.
Source (NewsTarget): Food manufacturers hide dangerous ingredients in everyday foods by using confusing terms on the label

And what happens when you mix all that stuff together in your body? That research is only just beginning, but it has been found that mixing MSG, aspartame and these two food colorings causes neurological damage. You can get that combination by drinking a Diet Pepsi and eating a bag of Doritos.
Source (NewsTarget): Interview with Randall Fitzgerald, author of The Hundred-Year Lie, on the prevalence of toxic chemicals

[edit on 29-4-2007 by annestacey]

coincidentally i was having an arguement last night on a related matter.
This hippie dude (pretty smart fellow) has convinced me that the U.S. government has been dumbing us down for decades.
they stopped teaching latin in school. anyone who knows latin has a fairly good understanding of both medical terminology as well as law.
the media hype seems to diefy dumb sh#@s creating millionair rappers who cant spell their own names and a million pre-teen "stupid spoiled whores"

We need to know what exactly is "intelligence". A person can only "think" or "reason" from the huge library of data he has (knowingly and un-knowingly) stored in his memory. No-one can "think" outside this.

A person is considered "intelligent" when he has (a) stored a significant amount of data in his memory and (b) when he is able to retrieve this data quickly whenever needed. Such a person would have solutions to problems, be able to take right decisions and therefore be useful to society in general.

Another important point to note is the duration or length of "resident time" (for buffering the data received) that he has in his brain at his disposal.

We all carry a certain length of "time" in our brains which helps
us to understand what we perceive - read, hear, or see. I use the term "resident-time" for want of a better one!

You might have noticed that my writing is split into sentences, none of them exceeding five or six seconds of normal reading time. If I were to write what I have written so far as one long sentence, it would have been difficult to understand in one go. Even when we speak, there are pauses (like the commas in writing) which enable the listener to understand what is being said. Just imagine a continuous two minutes' speech without a pause - it may sound like gibberish!

Without this resident-time, we would not be able to enjoy music or carry on conversation. If we read a sentence, we will be left only with the last word in the sentence as the rest of the sentence would not "register" in the brain. Music would be some intermittent cacophony. It is the resident
(buffer) time that lets us connect one word to another to make a sentence, and one beat to the next to be able to enjoy music.

We are all born with a "default" resident-time of a couple of seconds or so but as the brain development takes place, say up to an age of six years - this resident time expands and if there is no external aid, the expansion will also be default of say, four or five seconds.

But, if parents spend time, and talk to the children, read bedtime stories - and fairy tales, the children will need to connect one sentence to another, and the beginning of the story with the ending, to be able to understand, enjoy and remember the whole story. You will also note bedtime stories are always short stories - with short sentences. once upon a time, there was a king.....

Such children develop a lengthier resident-time than the less fortunate ones; however it may seem that the best resident time will not exceed twelve or fifteen seconds, at the most. Even geniuses can boast of only so much.

That's the reason why in all literature, no sentence exceeds eight or ten seconds of normal reading time, and all speech is broken up into sentences lasting under ten seconds each.

So now, an "intelligent" person is one who has (a) stored a significant amount of data in his memory (b) the longest possible resident time, enabling him to retrieve data on demand, and use more of the data available for reasoning things out efficiently.

Animals and children seem to possess very short resident-time, that's why they cannot understand long-winded instructions, but quickly respond to short commands like "come", "sit", "eat", "wait" etc. Likewise, an adult with a fully developed brain but with the "default" resident time would not be able to understand much of what is said, and would not be able to reason things out efficiently. We refer to animals as "dumb" and the same term is used to mean "stupid" referring to people.

"Educated" people need not be "intelligent" - they are only "literate" whereas an "un-educated" person can be "intelligent" as explained above.

Ganesh
WATAPI

I agree with this post 100% and joke around with co-workers
that the U.S. is becoming a nation of idiots.

I work customer service/support for a cable company and
have a few real world examples of idiocracy to share.

Customer : It aint working.
Me : What isnt working ?
Customer : I dont know.


2nd example

Customer : I got the ghosts on my tv.
Me : What do you mean ?
Customer : I got the ghosts on my tv, like the movie polderguyst (they actually spelled it for me)
Me : You mean you have static on your tv ? (thinking to myself... You mean you have green misty hands coming from your tv ? you dont need to call me you need ghostbusters)
Customer : Yea static, thats it.
Me : Ok go to the front of your tv and make sure its on channel 3
to get the cable picture through.
Customer : How do i do that?
Me: press the channel button on your tv and set it back
to channel 3. (getting frustrated now)
Customer: You want me to do that with my hands?

3rd example

Customer : my cable isnt working.
Me : what problems are you seeing?
Customer : I got the ants on my cable box.
Me: What do you mean by that?
Customer : There's 4 green ants on my cable box.(when a customer is
delinquent on there bill or the box is not connected it will
display 4 dashes on the box, this customer was not delinquent
Me : Ok lets check some wires on the back of your cable
box, can you find the cable wire coming in from your
wall in this room and tell me where it's connected to?
Customer : What wall?


I weep for the future of this planet.....

LOL That's great patriot, I just wonder how people that -dumb- can possibily support themselves

Actually, there was a great story written about this. It was about a world in which everyone was getting dumber, and the decreasing amounts of intelligent people had to find ways to support the growing amount of idiots. Anyways, I forgot the title, but it's a really great book. Anyone read it?

I have read this thread from beginning to end. There's a couple of things I might point out to you self proclaimed mental giants, if you can take the time from your self congratulatory mental high fives.

I'll speak slowly, because I'm sure that's the preferred method to get your interest.

When you're typing in your profound,yet strangely meandering way,on the value of your attained degree of mental perfection. Do you ever notice that some of your words are underlined in red? Ask yourself if, in your wisdom, there might be a reason for this?

Personally, it seems that some of you are yourselves a few fries short of a happy meal. Your rational seems to be that we poor and less well placed humans are taking up space in an otherwise glorious world. You ignore the fact that nature tends, most likely with good reason, to prefer diversity. Of course, I'm sure in your own minds you feel better qualified to make such decisions.

I am no more off topic than others here, but then again, I am self educated, so what can you expect. I will conclude by pointing out that what you perceive as intelligence is a thinly disguised class '-ism' on the same order as racism and others. You are to be pitied for your desire to become 'other' than truly a caring human who values all life as kin.

I'm sure everyone here is smart enough to know which of you I am speaking to.

One thing that people seem to ignore is "beautiism". Everyone wants to cohabit with "beautiful" people. Beautiism is sending western humanity down the dumb path.

Due to the long time scale of human generations and the rarity of isolated populations who employed selective marriage, studies into the relative intellects of human population pockets is rather rare. There is, however, one study into three populations who used marriage selection processes based on certain human characteristics rather than the "scattergun" approach used by "enlightened" societies.

I won't mention the groups because they are based on racial/ethnic/religious/geographic lines and facists could use the study as a basis for their filthy propaganda. Two of the groups selectively married based on intellect/acumen/compatibility but the third selectively married on a physical/beauty basis. All three groups practised selective breeding over a period of about 6,000 years.
I know that it is a rather small study but the two groups who selected using intellectual criteria had a mean intellect above that of the world as a whole. The group which used physical attributes for selection had a mean intellect below that of the world as a whole. I'm not saying that all "beautiful" people are dumb but this one study on one population pocket shows lower than average intellect.
I know that such a small study is, by no means, definitive, but it suggests that selective breeding, based on certain criteria, can raise the average intellect of humanity while breeding based on other criteria (absence of intellectual selection characteristics) has a negative intellectual outcome. The western world's preference for "beautiful" partners, rather than "smart" partners suggests that, over time, western humans, as a sub-species, will become dumber. Of course, if you can get a partner who is both smart and beautiful, you're on a winner.

If we should ever want to breed "super-intellects" we need to identify those human mutants whose genes put them above the statistical maximum and breed them together. Some of their off-spring will possess the parental intellect. This selective breeding is well outside the currently accepted breeding criteria for humans and will, illogically, not happen.

The western world has become obsessed with "beauty" to its detriment. It is no wonder that the marital breakdown rate is at an all-time high. People get together on the basis of physical attraction and then learn that long-term compatibility is an intellectual process.
Tall men are six times more successful at obtaining top jobs than shorties of equivalent, or even superior, skills and experience because western society perceives tall men as more beautiful. This discriminates against a huge number of highly capable men and denies society the best services of a huge intellectual resource.
A study where the same woman applied for multiple jobs across the USA had some interesting results. She included a photograph with each application. Half the photographs were of her as a blonde, the rest as a brunette. She was more successful at getting interviews for human-interfacing jobs as a blonde because bosses wanted a "pretty" person and they perceive blonde-ness as being more beautiful. For intellectually-based jobs, she was more successful when portrayed as a brunette because bosses associate intelligence with dark-haired women. There's a clue girls; if you want a job in the "engine-room" of a company, get that brunette rinse before interview.


But beautiism is but half the story. Beautiism will, in time, dumb down humanity. For speed in dumbing down we need to look at all the aids, both mechanical and electronic, that flood our society. No one thinks anymore, a machine does it for us. While our organic intellect hasn't changed, our working intellect has.

NGC is one the few people on this thread that is not smacking of thinly veiled elitism, outright snobbery, and "chosen one" syndrome.

Hippichick that may be a partial aspect of the dumbing down of our society, but it's not all of it. People are just trying to find ways to cut corners these days to avoid hard work. However you are right that vanity causes more problems, but it's more than break-ups, it causes people to go in debt; they want a nice car, nice clothes, nice house, etc. Then they have five kids when they have no education and can barely afford to support their own posteriors. These people are abundant and they are dumb, they can't see the consequences of their actions. The children they bring to this world will not have the opportunities of a good education because their parents failed them from the start.

I for one do think that NGC's post smacks of thinly veiled elitism. It just does not look so in the surface. However...NGC is entitled to their opinion and to voice it.

I too am self educated. I am not particularly impressed with mental giants. Nor am I impressed with ignorance...no matter who is carrying it out or who is its victim.

As to being a caring human..I will choose about to whom and or what I care. I do not accept the standards on this concept so often foisted on me by others. I am not intrested in what the world outside my doors thinks should be my standard for caring. Most of the world can get lost in this arena. I will make up my own mind..good times or bad.

I do agree with NGC on one thing ...and that is that many of us are a few fries short of a Happy Meal. I choose as much as possible not to frequent such a buisness extablishment. When I say short ..I also mean the intelligent peoples.

I have the opportunity of working with some engineers in my profession. I have learned you must closely watch them. Some of them are not tightly wrapped. THey too can get you killed or injured if you have no concept of what you are about in this occupation. Dont ever give some of these guys a wrench...they need to stick with a calculator or slide rule. Give them a wrench and some of these intelligent types will get you hurt or killed.

My nightmare..dream or scenerio is to be stuck on a deserted Isle with this type of engineers and others who know mostly consumption rates and video games. THe other nightmare group in this dream is those who have survived mostly on beauty skills...as hippychick so aptly states.

I agree also with this part of Hippychicks post. This is merely a survival strategem for many. It is not a new concept but very ancient.
I believe the concept described by Hippychick is that beauty can be deceiving and also a drug. Beauty can deceive us as to real value by putting us on a artificial drug not worth its cost or long term expense. I agree with this assessment.
I would however like to know the source of this information Hippychick is describing in her position on beauty verses intelligence. I would find this an intresting read.
I find that what the world calls beautiful women ..who are not integrated into any real thinking or accomplishment skills..the ability to do work...actually very ugly. I notice this because their maintenance requirements are way out of thier proportion to their actual usefulness to me. I dont have much use for a pretty porcelain statue.
I find that the media caters heavily to this genre..this drug habit. I notice this often in periodical at the check out stands at various buisnesses here...the merchandizing of the beauty drug.

And this is my elitist opinion.

Thanks,
Orangetom



[edit on 30-4-2007 by orangetom1999]

So let me see if I understand what most of you are trying to say in this thread, bear with me as I only have a highschool education and some tech training. Stupid people are having more children because they are too stupid to know any better, and smart people are having less children because they are aware of overpopulation and know better. Therefore more stupid people are being born, lowering the overall IQ of society. Did I get that right? If yes, then that is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

Maybe the educated people are so busy making money with their higher IQ demanding jobs, they dont have time for sex, or are so selfish about their freetime that they dont want to use it up with lots of children. I bet the stupid uneducated people just sit around bored and sex is so easy and fun, what the heck lets go baby, and then cant figure out why all these kids keep showing up. If we could just get those smart people some free time and the dumb ones a job and a good cable TV package we would instantly raise the IQ of the human race, yippie!

If the majority of the posters on this thread are representative of the High IQ, non baby-having populace, I personally hope the "stupid" people hurry up and have more kids. After all having 10 meaningful conversations with "stupid" people is always better that one stupid conversation with a smart one.

If we could just get those smart people some free time and the dumb ones a job and a good cable TV package we would instantly raise the IQ of the human race, yippie!

My opinion is that this is one of the problems ..the cable tv package. It is of very poor quality. Designed to amuse..not to muse.

While I have television I seldom watch it as I have, for some time now, realized that the strategem behind the advertisements is more original and clever than what passes for programming. This is a sad state of affairs. Doesnt do much for the public IQ but it does make for a very controllable, predictable, malliable public. A public groomed on consumption rates..not thinking or musing but responding to a stimulus not of their own.

Not enough original thinking going on out here..mostly xerox copies of someone elses thinking or expectations. You do see alot of this on ATS/BTS but on occasion one sees original thinkers on here...more so than is the case in ...lets say...chat rooms. By this I mean people who can think outside the box so to speak. You tend to find more of them here in amongst the usual xerox copies. This is one of the features I enjoy about ATS/BTS.

Thanks,
Orangetom