St. George's Day in England: where is the recognition, the pride?

Mods: If this thread has been posted in the wrong forum then I am sorry for the inconvenience.

I'd just like to spare a moment to wish everyone a Happy St. George Day. Today is England's national day and despite not being officially recognised as a holiday, many people in England are proud to celebrate their past, their present and what the future holds for them. Those people will no doubt be purchasing their English flags and quite rightly hanging them from their cars and their houses.

I wish the same could be said of the media and in my view, it's generally negative perception of the English as a people. I really cannot understand why, from my observations, more focus isn't given on St. George's Day beyond bottom-of-the-page links or passing comments - it's as though Englishness is something to be ashamed of. I looked on the BBC's web page and straight off the bat, I was surprised by the negative spin the corporation seems to have put on this event. I am not sure whether this corporation would be so eager to chastise other people in this manner.

The Yahoo! search page also appears devoid of any recognition unlike the recent St. Patrick's Day celebrations, which I enjoyed. Google has nowt as well.

This kind of self-loathing is an alien concept to my American friends.

Do you think that there is a problem within the media, with Englishness and if so, do you think this is justified..is it coincidental, accidental..or it by design? If you think it's by design then who do you hold to account..what is their motive for denouncing their country's past and its people?

I'm sorry if this post is a little sparse or badly written..I've been working on something for hours and am ready for sleep. I just wanted to wish everyone a Happy St. George Day irrespective of your nationality or location, and invite your opinion on the issue of Englishness or patriotism in general whilst the iron is still hot so to speak. Thanks, and have a great day.

[edit on 23-4-2007 by Ross Cross]

Happy Saint George's Day to all of my English friends!!!!

It does seem to be an unfortunate trend in many countries to shun nationalism and patriotism as being not politically correct. :shk:

This kind of self-loathing is an alien concept to my American friends.

I don't think we're immune...I wouldn't be surprised if the 4th of July started coming under attack from left wing groups.

A few friends and myself went out for a couple drinks to celebrate St. George's Day.....good times! Not really sure what the theme at the pub had to do with St. George. I understood all the flags....but I really didn't get why they had an Elvis impersonator singing Glory Glory.....

Originally posted by djohnsto77
It does seem to be an unfortunate trend in many countries to shun nationalism and patriotism as being not politically correct. :shk:

True, it seems like national holidays are taking a back seat to many immigrant holidays.

PS: I'm American

[edit on 23/4/2007 by SportyMB]

Murkin here, too.

I assume that it's not politically correct to be English, any more than it is to be a white male from Texas.

If you're not some kind of "victim," someone who has a bone to pick with society and all its institutions, then you have no relevance to the media.

Nationalism is supposedly lowbrow and shamefull. Look at the way america is portrayed around the world: universally loathed for its flag-waving jingoism. Funny thing is, the more people despise Jingoists, the more fun it is to be one. You might think the despisers would figure that out, but no.

Texas is an example from within the US. Supposedly, when Texas joined the union, one of the provisions that Texas put on it was that the TX flag could be flown at an equal height with the US flag (though still to the left of it). I could drive you into town where I live, and show you a street with three houses, each of which has two 30-ft flagpoles in the front yard, just so the homeowner can fly his state flag at the same height as the murkin flag. You can bet that if they couldn't fly the national flag, then they wouldn't bother with the state ensign, since they couldn't fly it boastfully.

Are the neighbors horrified? No, they are out buying thirty-two-foot flagpoles, and some halogen spotlights, for their own "tribute."

Some of those flags are huge. And expensive. But stealing one would be like, well . . . I don't know what it would be like but it would be really stupid and painful and lots of bad luck if you ever got caught.

My impression of "st. george's day" is that there aren't any parades or anything?

Here, they do it for the 4th of july, and especially March 2 (texas independence day) there are parades, govt. buildings are closed, school is let out, and people turn to liquor and/or fireworks. Having public speakers wear archaic military uniforms is generally part of the fun, especially if swords are involved. Detonating an old cannon is also quite a morale booster as well. Aging veterans usually see how far down main street they can carry a large flag, with some help from the local boy scout troop. Mattresses are on sale at reduced rates in all the stores. Then meat must be grilled, and offered to every person you know, from over the fence of your back yard. Liquor, dancing and loud music generally become more prevalent as the evening sets in. The more you've had to drink, the more important it becomes that you tell everyone how your family ended up coming to Texas. You'll have to shout, because the music is so loud. Your neighbors will be shouting too, but you'll be expected to just shout over them.

I suppose that if you're from some peace-loving, cosmopolitan culture, it seems quite loud and dangerous. But it's pretty handy for us. Makes it easy to spot the yankee carpet-baggers who've moved in down the street, by the way they stay indoors with the curtains pulled tightly shut.

What do you do for St. George's day? Is it religious at all? Anyone re-enact him slaying the dragon or anything?

.

If all people do is buy made-in-China flags, there’s no money in it. If there’s no money in it, the media won't promote it.

X-mas, now there’s a cash cow.


[edit on 23/4/07 by ConspiracyNut23]

Well, to be honest, I didn't bother putting a flag up. It seems that everyone in this country thinks that the St Georges cross is the England football teams flag, not the flag of our country.

Oh, damn, I just said England, didn't I? I forgot, that place doesn't exist anymore, it's Britain.

Who the HELL made it that saying your ENGLISH, live in ENGLAND and love ENGLAND, is racist? Really, I'm proud to be English and proud of this tiny little place I call home, but why is it that any job applications I fill in don't have 'English' as a nationality, but 'British'?

It's not the United Kingdom, Britain, the British Isles or even bloody Albion, it's England.

If I say England, I'm a racist pig, if I say I hate football, I'm not a patriot and deserved to be, 'kicked in and sent to France' as someone told me so elegantly recently.

I just can't win.

I have a notion on why St. Georges isn't celebrated, and yes, it has something to do with those pesky immigrants. But it's Romans not Romanians who are to blame.

Most traditional music, from around the world, has two basic pieces: A drum and a countrys instrument. This instruments construction will not have changed since its first use thousands of years ago. For my country, Scotland, our instruments were the drums, fiddles and bagpipes. The skills of making music would then be sent generation to generation. Except for in England.

There is no real musical heritage to England, nothing earlier than an Orchestral presence. No roots music. And why? Because they were beaten by warring nations and subsequently conquered. The Romans, the Anglo-Saxons, the Vikings to a lesser degree, and then the Normans. Everytime this happened, new cultures would be made law, and the English lost their heritage. So whitewash after whitewash later, the roots have gone.

When the Scots celebrate St. Andrews day, we have a good time about it, because we don't just celebrate St.Andrew, we celebrate everytime Scotland has won and been proud to be Scottish, be that William Wallace or World Cup 1977.

So the reason that most English don't celebrate St. Andrews day is not because of Indians arriving, or those pesky Africans and their vibrant traditions. It's because English people have no sense of their roots, be that through music or otherwise. Which I think is a real shame.

Originally posted by Subcomandante

When the Scots celebrate St. Andrews day, we have a good time about it, because we don't just celebrate St.Andrew, we celebrate everytime Scotland has won and been proud to be Scottish, be that William Wallace or World Cup 1977.

That paragraph is key. Similar attitude in Texas. And a heck of a lot of scots in the Anglo population. Here, the traditional music is a meeting of scottish (without pipes) and German oompah. The Germans ran the music, but everybody's favorite dance is the "schottishe" ---now blandly called the texas two-step.

But your paragraph is exactly right. In the US, a lot of trailer-park types may not really feel that much actual patriotism, but they love barbeque and fireworks, and a chance to buy beer in bulk, and show up for work hungover the next day.

If you say "fourth of july" where I work, you'll hear people already planning their parties in mid april.

Another factor for the 4th is that it is practically the only national holiday (no work) during the summer. So although most workers get a vacation in Summer, they don't all get it the same weeks. So if you are gonna party with yer buds, it'll be on the fourth of.

Come to think of it, when most workers are allowed to pick their vacation dates, they cluster them around the 4th, to extend their time off by another paid holiday. And it doesn't hurt that people sort of expect you'll be getting loaded for it, and hungover after.

Even if Murka gets annexed by the NWO, hicks out in the trailer park will still be getting drunk and setting off explosives on the 4th, regardless of what the UN says. I can just imagine peacekeepers trying to keep people from lighting sparklers on the 4th---there'd be shooting real quick. In fact, when hicks forget to buy fireworks, they get out their guns and shoot them in the air, a la Saddam. definitely rabble-rousing.

On the other hand, no one does anything but hoist the Stars and stripes on June 14 (flag day). Now JUNETEENTH (19th) is a Huge celebration in African-american culture in Texas--the date that federal troops landed in galveston after the war and actually told the slaves they were free men. That holiday fills the parks, and there are parades that interfere with traffic. I think every prince hall masonic lodge in the nation, even outside of Texas, holds a parade that day.

Just like you said, it's what you make it.

Maybe the SCA should set up a jousting tournement on St. George's day, or you could have legalized dueling, but only on St. G's day or something.

.

PS. the 4th of july has lots of music for it; some showtune abotut "I'm a yankee doodle dandy, born on the fourth of july," and the national anthem and whatnot.

Do they sing the UK national anthem at ballgames there?

Here you stand up and pay attention. Some professional athletes were shown talking through the "Oohsaycanyousee" years ago, and it pretty much ended their careers on the spot.


[edit on 23-4-2007 by dr_strangecraft]

I think they should make the day a national holiday, that would get people in the mood, parades, bbq's, pubs, morris dancing, historic reenactments...fantastic. Bit hard to do that though when it's a working monday.

It is a bit shameful how it's been tucked away out of sight.

Happy St Georges Day.


D r Strangecraft, with regards to English roots music, you're partially right, although the 'ethnic English' the angles, Saxons and Jutes had there pipes, drums and harps etc it has mainly been lost along with quite a lot of folklore and ancient culture. The earliest example of an English folk song is one called Sommer es a commin in from the 13th century I think. The medieval period is when the accumulation of incomers began to morph into one recognisable nation and the closest we get to roots music from that time I suppose. I'd guess that English music before that wasn't too much different from it's Celtic cousins elsewhere in the British Isles.

[edit on 23-4-2007 by ubermunche]