christian support of nazism

Because through the Word, they avoid judgement. Jesus Christ died for our sins. All he asked in return is that you know Him. John 3:16-17 "'For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved."

what if you have heard "the word" but you dont not believe what you have been told by "MAN".Because you have seen the lies and the curruption that goes along with the people in authority positions?? but you are still a very good person..you pretty much live by all the good points in the bible such as not killing,stealing,lieing,ect.. ect..will these people be damned to burn alive for eternity in the lake fire inferno known as hell??

A valid question, the answer to which I do not know off hand. I do know, however, that God is perfect and sin free. He is also a Just God. Now, if your sin is compared to the sin of Jesus Christ, yep, you're boned. But I don't know for sure. Have you ever opened yourself up to finding out, on your own, if the Bible is truth?

I used to be a Born Again Athiest, trying to explain to people that God didn't exist, science is the answer, etc. Then a few people, totally seporate from eachother, came to me and just presented me with questions which I didn't have the answers to. I decided that in order to combat this christianity thing, I would have to read the Bible. I'd know where they were coming from, so I could refute their arguements easily. Never made it past Matthew. Total life changing experience. But somewhere while I was reading, I made the mental assertation to be open, not to close my mind to the possibility of this not being true. Otherwise I wouldn't be any better then them. Heh, that was all it took...

from shoo>
The christians religion makes it impossible to be a Nazi - if you follow it's rules and morals. The catholic and protestant church didnt stand up against Hitler as they signed contracts with him that their religion will be accepted. That's and because of the pope there was no big official resistance against the Nazis.

That is correct. there was no or very little official resistance
to the nazis.
The churches knew what was happening and many of it's
members collaborated and gave their support to Hitler.

Only a few dissenters did the opposite.
Many Lutherans for example in Germany had a servile
attitude towards the government especially the nazi
one.
Rather than oppose the nazis they either collaborated
or they just simply chose to say nothing against them.
Even if they knew that what they were doing was wrong.

The main attitude of the christian churches in Germany
at that time was either cooperation with nazism or
just plain apathy.

Originally posted by shoo

The christians religion makes it impossible to be a Nazi - if you follow it's rules and morals.

It also makes it impossible to be a republican or democrat but it still goes on. Republicans care nothing for the poor and promote greed and war. Democrats do support the poor but the abortion issue is a thorn. Who would Jesus vote for? Probably neither.

i am neither a christian or a atheist..i simply cannot be sure either way..so i will not base my life around either..i will just be me and hope that if god is as just as people say..than i see no reason why i wouldnt be allowed "access".If god gave me a revalation such as he has supposedly done in the past..then i would absoluty be a 100% christian person..but god does not speak to me..nor send me any signs..so i cannot base my beliefs by what other men tell me to believe[the bible was hand wriitin by a man..so IMO..its credibility to explain the universe and the after life is somewhat lacking]

[Edited on 31-12-2003 by McGotti]

Originally posted by McGotti
i am neither a christian or a atheist..i simply cannot be sure either way..so i will not base my life around either..i will just be me and hope that if god is as just as people say..than i see no reason why i wouldnt be allowed "access".If god gave me a revalation such as he has supposedly done in the past..then i would absoluty be a 100% christian person..but god does not speak to me..nor send me any signs..so i cannot base my beliefs by what other men tell me to believe[the bible was hand wriitin by a man..so IMO..its credibility to explain the universe and the after life is somewhat lacking]

[Edited on 31-12-2003 by McGotti]

Are you sure you haven't experienced any signs and just not noticed them? Are you sure God hasn't spoken to you and you just didn't hear it as God speaking? Typically, he speaks to us softly, and often through mediums we wouldn't expect. It is not always a voice of any kind in your head, but through someone else God can speak to you. The signs and wonders can be subtle, they don't have to be something severe like raining fire or something to that effect. They could be as subtle as you being seated on a plane next to someone whom God can speak to you through.

As far as the Bible not being credible, do you believe an all powerful being would be unable to influence the book that is supposed to express His Word? Would there be any way for Him to communicate to you through written word, then, short of having a book fall from Heaven into your lap?

Is this another attack on Christianity? OK, go ahead. But ya know, Christianity itself, in the present day, does not support Nazism, on the contrary, the Nazi Party STOLE Christian symbols (IE the Iron Cross, a crusades-era war symbol!)

So, some Nazis were Christians, your point? This isn't all of Christianity! I am a Roman Catholic Christian, try to live my life extremely well, but I don't support Nazism. I guess what I am trying to say is I don't really get this arguement at all = /

-wD

Originally posted by junglejake
]



As far as the Bible not being credible, do you believe an all powerful being would be unable to influence the book that is supposed to express His Word? Would there be any way for Him to communicate to you through written word, then, short of having a book fall from Heaven into your lap?

as far as god speaking to me through other people..like i said..i simply can not base my life on what other people tell me....people lie..people are confused..people are sometimes wrong about things they believe 100%..why should i believe that god is speaking to me through somebody telling me about jesus....when i got another guy across from me telling me about allah or who ever..i do not see why any of them are more credible then the other.i wish he would just speak to me himself..i dont see why not..i would be a true believer then..i would live my life for him as best i could..but he has not[as far as i know] so i might as well be muslim or something..

as far as me believing god could put his will unto a person so that they write his word..yes i think its possible...but i believe its also possible that it was writtin by a person who "thought" god was speaking to them..hey if he spoke to them...why cant he speak to me?? there are many holy books said to be from god..all of them have thier people who try to spread "the word" of their beliefs...and any book with the name of a king on it..i would never read as fact anyway..i mean whats next "the president bush bible" you see my point??

[Edited on 31-12-2003 by McGotti]

Originally posted by McGotti
as far as god speaking to me through other people..like i said..i simply can not base my life on what other people tell me....people lie..people are confused..people are sometimes wrong about things they believe 100%..why should i believe that god is speaking to me through somebody telling me about jesus....when i got another guy across from me telling me about allah or who ever..i do not see why any of them are more credible then the other.i wish he would just speak to me himself..i dont see why not..i would be a true believer then..i would live my life for him as best i could..but he has not[as far as i know] so i might as well be muslim or something..

as far as me believing god could put his will unto a person so that they write his word..yes i think its possible...but i believe its also possible that it was writtin by a person who "thought" god was speaking to them..hey if he spoke to them...why cant he speak to me?? there are many holy books said to be from god..all of them have thier people who try to spread "the word" of their beliefs...and any book with the name of a king on it..i would never read as fact anyway..i mean whats next "the president bush bible" you see my point??

[Edited on 31-12-2003 by McGotti]

NIV: New international version. I've tried reading the King James version, and it's really hard, since we haven't spoken that way for ages.

As far as God not speaking to you directly, He knows us better then we know ourselves. While you're convinced of what you will do if God speaks directly to you, you may not do what you expect. There are many times I know how I'll react to a situation, and then I react differently.

It would be awfully cruel of a God to mislead 2 billion people into believing a book that is nothing more then many people's delusional ramblings. I'd like to point out, though the book was written by man, it was written by many men. It wasn't just one, and their message is all the same. Including the 4 who experienced Jesus first hand. That's a lot of people under the same delusion of God speaking to them.

On anouther note, in reference to God speaking directly to those who wrote the Bible, He didn't. Their actions were influenced by the Holy Spirit, who guided their hand. The Holy Spirit does speak to people. Many people. But the Holy Spirit's speaking is that of a whisper in the wind. God works in mysterous ways.

As far as not believing people who witness to you, you shouldn't just assume that it is God (Holy Spirit) guiding their words. There are many people who are doing it for the wrong ends, and usually delivering the wrong message. What you need to do is open yourself up to the possibility that the message could come in that manner. If you immediately dismiss it because it comes from the mouths of men, you close a door that should stay open. Just be aware.

The very term "Christian" means Follower Of Christ or Christ-Like... basically an imitator of Jesus.

That being said...

Most people today (and in Nazi Germany) who call themselves Christians, are in fact, claiming a religion instead of living a lifestyle. Most of the people in the Christian Faith are hypocrite extraordinaires.

Originally posted by VeeTwin
The very term "Christian" means Follower Of Christ or Christ-Like... basically an imitator of Jesus.

That being said...

Most people today (and in Nazi Germany) who call themselves Christians, are in fact, claiming a religion instead of living a lifestyle. Most of the people in the Christian Faith are hypocrite extraordinaires.

Sadly, I'm forced to agree with you. I personally I'm not Christ like, but I'm trying. Too many people I know call themselves Christians as they march off to the stip clubs. And a lot of Christians call them selves that because their parents were Christians, so therefore they are. They don't realize that, though yes, you may be saved believing in Christ, "the way to show the truth, there can be no greater proof then to live the life." I'm saddened by this, but there is a movement going on in America towards this. The silent little lambs amidst the pain are begining to speak out. And when those who know the truth speak out, those who think they know will begin to see the error of their ways, and hopefully correct them. We can only pray...(And speak, of course, but if it's not in God's will, it's not gonna happen)

Originally posted by junglejake

Originally posted by BlackJackal
You are exactly correct in Revelations after the rapture a few people get a second chance to get to heaven. These few people are not Christians but they are 144,000 Jews.

From my understanding of Revelations, the 144,000 Jews actually minister to the rest. I read somewhere (may have been the Left Behind series and the follow up book: Are we Living In The End Times?) that a quarter of the population of the earth after the rapture will be converted to Christ.

Can people not jump on the "revalation band wagon" ?? Revelation is not intended to be prophecy. Most biblical scholars agree that it was written to give hope to christians that were living in a time where just admitting your faith could mean being fed to lions.

I have to agree with the anti-semitism things though.. it seems that anytime your get into ultra-conservative christianity..there is little tolerance for other non-christian religions...

MOST biblical scholors? Can you back this up? Most I listen to/read say otherwise. The Gospel is to give hope to christians, revelations is prophesy.

EDIT:
And don't go quoting the "Bible Answer Man", because he doesn't believe Jesus went to Hell, despite what the Gospel says.

[Edited on 12-31-2003 by junglejake]

Here you go Jake... look at the portion on the contextual writting of the Book. This is one source, another would have to be the faculty of the deapt of religon at Wayland Baptist University.

Ask yourself why the prophesy version of Revalation is so popularly put forth by the media and by tv evangelists??? >>> Money. Plain and simple.. its a great marketing too for evangelists wanting scare people into buying their books, tapes and bumper stickers.. as well as giving a guilt "love gift" to hopefully save then from the terrible trials and tribulations of the so called "end times". Its a con.. and sometimes people seeking God will find themselves duped by the old flimflam man. Revalation was written contextually for the time and place in which it was written.

Open your mind... there is in fact 4 different interpretations of Revelation. The other 3 just don't scare people into parting with their money.

oops heres that link.
www.cresourcei.org...

From webdevil>

Is this another attack on Christianity? OK, go ahead. But ya know, Christianity itself, in the present day, does not support Nazism, on the contrary, the Nazi Party STOLE Christian symbols (IE the Iron Cross, a crusades-era war symbol!

Sounds like you need to research the history of the Iron
cross more before you speak about it.
In case you didn't know the nazi party never stole it from
anyone.
The iron cross was a traditional german medal for bravery.
It was 1st awarded to Germans in 1813 during the napoleonic wars.
Hitler himself recieved one for courage in world war one.

The tradition of handing out iron crosses was simply continued during the 2nd world war, not stolen by the nazis.
That's like saying the nazis stole the German language
from the Germans because they continued to use it in
their speeches.

The point of making the post is to show that the christians
in many respects are absolutely no better than other segments of the population.
If you consider this an attack on christianity go ahead.
Most of you christians don't like it when someone shows
your dirty laundry to the rest of the world.
You would rather be smug or complacent in your sanctimonious hypocrisy,believing yourselves incapable of
doing any wrong whatsoever.

And you're always trying to convince me and others about
the righteousness of your ways.

Originally posted by junglejake
Sadly, antisemitism has been rampant in christianity. For some reason, some people have this shroud over their vision not realizing that the jews were, and still are, God's chosen people. We get to tag along simply by the grace of God.

It's people who are fairly ignorant about the religion they profess to practice. It's like those fools who march holding signs saying "God hates fags". If they had read any of the gospels, they'd know that's not true. God hates the sin, not the sinner, and tells us to do the same.

Jesus time and time again mentions that the Jews are God's chosen people. It is also said that He is the same, always, before, now, and ever more. The people who fall into this hate stuff are simply ignorant. And an ignorant person is very easy to mislead...

I do not buy into that "God's chosen people" bullcrap. God has never said anything about that to me. If the Jews truly were his "chosen", then he would let everyone know it in no uncertain terms. All we have to confirm this is the writings of mortal Jewish men looking to carve out a kingdom for themselves in the holy land. This " chosen people " crap let's the Jews get away with all kinds of atrocities. I SAY PROVE IT!!! ONCE AND FOR ALL PROVE IT!!! BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT PROVE IT!!!!

Originally posted by groingrinder
I do not buy into that "God's chosen people" bullcrap. God has never said anything about that to me. If the Jews truly were his "chosen", then he would let everyone know it in no uncertain terms. All we have to confirm this is the writings of mortal Jewish men looking to carve out a kingdom for themselves in the holy land. This " chosen people " crap let's the Jews get away with all kinds of atrocities. I SAY PROVE IT!!! ONCE AND FOR ALL PROVE IT!!! BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT PROVE IT!!!!

Before I can do that, I need to ask you, are you a Christian?

Originally posted by junglejake

Originally posted by groingrinder
I do not buy into that "God's chosen people" bullcrap. God has never said anything about that to me. If the Jews truly were his "chosen", then he would let everyone know it in no uncertain terms. All we have to confirm this is the writings of mortal Jewish men looking to carve out a kingdom for themselves in the holy land. This " chosen people " crap let's the Jews get away with all kinds of atrocities. I SAY PROVE IT!!! ONCE AND FOR ALL PROVE IT!!! BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT PROVE IT!!!!

Before I can do that, I need to ask you, are you a Christian?

No, I am not. I was raised Catholic, sang in the choir, and was an altar boy. Now I have seen the light and no longer allow mere mortal humans to dictate to me what God says, or wants. God will tell me what he wants, if he wants me to know it.