Moore's 'SICKO' Stunt Takes 9/11 Workers To Cuba

I also forgot, the Krome detention center, which used to be a missile base, was reopened in 1980 to process the "Marielitos".

Here are some links which back my statements.

19 August 1994: USCG initiates Operation ABLE VIGIL, a Cuban Mass Migration Emergency Plan in response to uncontrolled migration from Cuba and the announcement by President Clinton prohibiting the entry of undocumented Cuban migrants into the U.S.. The President directs the migrants are to be transported to safe havens outside the U.S.

20 August 1994: the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff orders DoD forces into action to support Operation ABLE VIGIL. This includes:

US Navy: Transport of Migrants to Safe Havens and secondarily used as interdiction assets
US Army: Camp Construction and Security at Camps
US Marine Corps: Security at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba (GTMO)
US Air Force: Transport of DoD assets to GTMO and Cuban migrants to Panama

Week of 22 August 1994: 10,190 Cubans are interdicted this week, more than were rescued during the decade between 1983-1993.

28 August 1994: Castro bars children, the elderly, and pregnant women from departing on rafts.

10 September 1994: An agreement with Cuba is announced to increase legal migration. Cuba closes the beaches to rafters.

11 September 1994: Castro issues directive to security forces to prevent further illegal maritime departures.

www.commongroundradio.org...

Here is another link to a Human Rights website also talking about the 1994 exodus and the Cuban laws which supress the Cuban people.

CUBA


Human Rights Developments

Popular dissatisfaction with the Castro regime deepened in 1994 in the face of continuing political repression and an ever-worsening economic crisis. Increasing numbers of people fled the island by raft and boat, and a spontaneous demonstration by the Havana harbor on August 5 was the largest expression of anti-government sentiment since the 1959 revolution brought Castro to power. During the ensuing weeks more than 30,000 people left the country, taking advantage of Castro's decision to temporarily allow departures. This move was calculated to bring the U.S. to the negotiating table and was partially successful in that regard. On September 9, the United States and Cuba reached an agreement on emigration whereby 20,000 Cubans would be allowed into the U.S. each year. In exchange for this concession, Castro once again clamped down on those attempting to leave the island through informal channels. Meanwhile, more than 32,000 Cubans, picked up at sea by the U.S. Coast Guard and prohibited from entering the United States, continued to be held under U.S. authority at Guantánamo Bay naval base and in Panama.

With the exception of this month-long exodus, Cuba continued to violate its citizens' right to freedom of movement through application of its "illegal exit" laws, which forbid Cubans from leaving the country without government permission. In the past three decades, thousands of Cubans have been arrested and imprisoned on this charge. In 1994, the maximum punishment was three years. Related crimes included the use of violence, intimidation or force while attempting to leave the country (punishable by three to eight years in prison); organizing, promoting or inciting illegal exit (two to five years in prison); and lending material aid or information facilitating illegal exit (one to three years in prison). Exact numbers were unavailable, but illegal exit prisoners were thought to constitute the largest category of political prisoners in Cuba.

www.hrw.org...

That's one of the Human Rights groups which tells you a different story from what you want to accept from castro's mouth...


Here is an account by various Cubans of what happened during the 1994 exodus.

CUBAN EXODUS 1994

Guests:
Arturo Cobo, coordinator, Cuban Transit Home and Museum, Key West, Florida
Lazara Pittman, immigration attorney
Various Cuban refugees

MARY GRAY DAVIDSON: This is Common Ground. In 1994 tens of thousands of Cubans took to the dangerous waters of the Florida Straits in homemade boats and rafts. Very few actually made it to the United States in this desperate reach for freedom.

YOUNG FEMALE CUBAN REFUGEE (via a translator): The waves were huge. I couldn't hold on. My mother just hugged me tight.

DAVIDSON: On this edition of Common Ground we hear from some of the survivors and the efforts to preserve the memory of this last mass exodus from Cuba.

ARTURO COBO: I'm talking about the children. I'm talking about the people, the new generation of Cubans, that they have to know the kind of price, the high price, that our people pay trying to reach for freedom.

www.commongroundradio.org...

More proof of what I ma saying is the truth. In this account Mirta Ojito a Pulitzer Prize Winner talks not only about her own experiences, but gives an overall picture of what was happening during the exodus of el Mariel.

Ms. MIRTA OJITO (Pulitzer Prize Winner; Journalist, The New York Times; Author, "Finding Manana: A Memoir of a Cuban Exodus"): In 1979, more than 110,000 Cubans from the United States went back to the island, mostly carrying gifts and wonderful stories about what life was like in the United States, created a crisis for the Cuban government in Cuba. People basically were saying, `Well, we have been told that life in the United States for immigrants is pretty horrible. That's not what I'm getting from the uncle, my cousins, my aunt, everybody who went back. It's not as bad as I have been told. In fact, it's pretty good. They get to have a house, a car in the garage, a vacation in Disney World.'

And people wanted to do that, too, so there was a degree of desperation among us Cubans on the island, trying to get out, trying to get to have what others have. And it wasn't just material goods. It was also the idea, of course, of freedom. And that led to several break-ins in embassies. And the most successful, of course, was the on the Peruvian Embassy April 1st.

GROSS: Where people were breaking in to be in a place of sanctuary, to declare that they wanted to leave the country.

Ms. OJITO: Yes. They wanted political asylum, absolutely. And it happened in several embassies, Latin American embassies in Havana. It just so happened that the six people who went on April 1st were lucky enough to encounter a diplomat, very young diplomat, who was also a lawyer. His name was Ernesto Pinto-Bazurco. His name is. He still lives in Lima, Peru. And he very much stood by them and refused to turn them over to the Cuban government.

The Cuban government, specifically Fidel Castro, got extremely angry, and they removed all the guards, all the protection from the embassy. And it just stood there, tempting and open. And in less than 36 hours, more than 10,000 people went into and also asked for political asylum.

And the foreign minister of Lima, Peru, began to ask for help to the international community. Several countries said, `I'll take 300,' `I'll take 500,' `I'll take 600,' whatever number. And that eventually led to the opening of the port of Mariel.

www.mirtaojito.com...

But despite the fact that Cubans have spoken as to what is really happening on the island, you get low lifes like Moore who try to claim the oposite...and then you get people like "StellarX"...who knows nothing about what is happening in Cuba and has the balls to claim "Cuban dissidents are lying"....

I have words to describe what kind of person you are, but I won't use them because i am starting to believe that you actually want to stop people like me from telling what is really happening in Cuba....


[edit on 25-4-2007 by Muaddib]

Further proof that you StellarX, do not know what you are talking about, and which shows the regime of castro is not only repressive, but inhumane and brutal against Cubans just for a difference in opinion; here is a panphlet from the Tribunal on Cuba which was held in Paris in 1986.

In that tribunal several political prisoners presented their accounts of what happened to them. They are Cuban dissidents and other non-Cubans who were put in prisons by the regime of castro, and were subsequently tortured by dismemberment, severe beatings which resulted on several people including women and young adults of 16 to 17 years old who recieved broken bones and vertebrae, beatings by rifle butts, machetes, and other instruments.

What did those people do?... Some of them tried to leave the island and were caught, imprisoned and tortured. Some were doctors who had a difference of opinion with the regime and were imprisoned and tortured.

Priests who were put in prison and tortured for taking in dissidents who were accused by the Cuban government. Journalists who were imprisoned and tortured for writting truths about the regime of castro.

Some were former officers of castro who saw castro did not intent to keep the promises he made and rebelled against castro. One of my uncles was a captain in castro's rebel forces, and when my uncle and other officers and soldiers saw that castro did not intent on keeping hi promises to help the Cuban people they rebelled against castro and left, they were later captured and imprisoned. My uncle was put in prison for 31-32 years, he was beaten and tortured. Several of his vertebrae were beaten out of possition and he still suffers chronic pain from the result of the beatings, and one of his testicles was beaten to a pulp.

There is even the account of one Black Panther member who left the U.S. thinking he would find asylum in Cuba, and who was accused of being a U.S. spy and was subsequently tortured in prison.

polarch.sas.ac.uk...

[edit on 25-4-2007 by Muaddib]

Michael Moore Faces U.S. Treasury Probe

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Here's the latest chapter in this story. Looking forward to seeing the film, even though Moore's credibility is taking some whacks of late. I gotta say, though, I'm still astounded that I can grab a visa and go to Cuba any time I want, but my American cousins (and I say that in all affection) are forbidden. Then again, I can buy an over-the-counter aspirin with codiene for my headache easier than I can buy a handgun. Strange world, ain't it?

[edit on 10-5-2007 by JohnnyCanuck]

[edit on 10-5-2007 by JohnnyCanuck]

I thought the same way as most about Moore and this being just a stunt
so he could get more people to see this movie . I even had a thread about it , but the last 30 or 40 minutes about his cuba trip were fantastic ..
I downloaded a dvd copy and it was mostly what i thought , Moore exploiting people for personal gain , but he's onto something here ,, and
it just shows how far America has strayed from 1776 .. Sad .

I don't understand. This thread is about Cuba or the movie Sicko?
Why US citizens consider Cuba as a landmark?
Boh..

Last week I saw Sicko and it wasn't so bad,... only sad.

I hope this movie makes some changes in the health care system. I remember when I was in Paris, I got very sick. I was scared to goto the doctors because I thought it would cost a bundle. FREE, I didnt even pay for the antibiotics from the pharmacy. Who cares if you think Michael Moore is a Mooreon...he's got this one right!

'Sicko' is by far Moore's best -- and most important work yet. I'm hoping once this hits the theatres all around America, somewhat of a "revolution" is made to fix the health care system... Better late than never.

Any talk about how Moore is "exploiting" the Cuban situation is just a desperate attempt at avoiding the point, a sad reality your living in. But if it aint effecting you, why care? Ignorance is bliss, right?

I just watched Sicko, 2 times(!). I don't do that usually but this doc is one of the best lately, very funny on moments and also sad at same time. It's a shame for USA to have so bad social (health) care. All because of greedy corporate criminals.

Also pay attention to when Tony Benn speaks @ 1:00:00 (former member of UK Parliament). He explains how democracy works and how corporate leaders want you in debt and depressed, so they control you without force and sell you some more pills at same time as well. He says people in shackles and apathy never vote, so no wonder USA has same people/families in power all the time.

No matter what you say about Moore, he produced very good documentary, a real eye-opener for all the people who are victims of corporate crime. Think about it, even Cuba after all sanctions has free and quality health care.

errrr.... has any one of you who is "worshiping Moore" even read anything that was said "by Cuban people on this so called free health care system in Cuba"?....

Some people will never change their minds nomatter if the evidence does not support such claims....

This is not about "the healthcare system in Europe"...it is about Moore's new lie trying to claim that the healthcare system in Cuba is better than in the U.S., and that is just a lie...

[edit on 21-6-2007 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib
errrr.... has any one of you who is "worshiping Moore" even read anything that was said "by Cuban people on this so called free health care system in Cuba"?....

Don't let your distaste for the messenger (which I share) detract from important elements of the message...

Does Michael Moore's "SICKO" Have Its Facts Straight?

The U.S. spends $5,711 per person. That's a whopping 33% more than the next highest spending country, Norway. Norway spends only $3,809 per person.

Yet... we're ranked 16th in infant mortality, 17th in life expectancy, and not in the top-30 for the number of physicians per 100,000 people.

Cuba, and the care offered to (supposed) 9/11 criminals, was used to make a point... there is a conspiracy of severe mismanagement of the money spent on healthcare in the U.S. And the conspiracy began with Nixon and Kaiser Permanente.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Don't let your distaste for the messenger (which I share) detract from important elements of the message...

It is a lot more than distaste. Moore simply lied about the healthcare system in Cuba. If he wanted to show what the healthcare system in Europe is, he could have done so without lying, but he lied using Cuba's healthcare system, which the best of it is only for rich people/tourists, or those within the circle of castro.

The regular people in Cuba don't get the best healthcare that exists on the island.

That's the main point I have been trying to show.


---edited for errors---

[edit on 21-6-2007 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib
That's the main point I have been trying to show.

Okay... but how does that relate to the very real problem of a conspiracy of massive health care funds mismanagement in the U.S.?

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Okay... but how does that relate to the very real problem of a conspiracy of massive health care funds mismanagement in the U.S.?

How does the fact that Moore lied about the healthcare system in Cuba relates to this discussion?

Because he "lied"?

I'll ask you this.

You think it is alright for Moore to lie, which is not the first time he has done so, and in this case he is trying to claim that the healthcare system in Cuba is better than in the U.S. to bring out the problems about the U.S. healthcare system?

No healthcare system is perfect, but lying about it is not helping to bring attention to any problems that the U.S. healthcare system might have.

[edit on 21-6-2007 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by whatukno
I think that he is trying to go about this the wrong way. He could have more easily took these people to Canada to make the exact same point but to Cuba?

If you haven't seen the movie, he was trying to make the point i guess about why/how come that our enemies that were being held in Guantanamo bay getting the best treatment there is at the base. How come we are taking better care of our enemies than our Heros, Specifically those of 9/11.

So they were denied access to the base to get treated, and so they head to Havana and went into the hospital, all they did was sign their name and told their age and they were helped and properly diagnosed and given some medicine that normally would cost $120 per unit.

I saw the movie.
I've read what you guys posted and I don't know.
Out of everything I've seen/read from MM, this is the only thing, this movie is the only thing I think he actually did right.
So the debate "oh yeah all the other countries with universal health care has to pay higher taxes"

So what happened to caring about your fellow citizen? your family?
Are you going to pay this higher tax to take away a life? Paying for some BS war?
I would rather pay this higher tax to make sure my fellow country men, woman, and children get the help they deserve when they need it without having to worry about deciding to have to pay for food be put on the table of having to pay for medicine.

What are we? This United States of America?
What are we United in? do we care about OUR PEOPLE?
Why is it that we are the best country in the world IMO, but we WON'T even take care of our own people? United by debt?

Forget it.

Focusing on one part of the movie the "stunt"
I think what he did was something good.
Seems like you guys are saying its bad, but he did it and i don't think those heroes of 9/11 are going to complain about it.

It would be nice if some of you watched the movie open minded first.
I admit myself I don't like really MM and most of his other stuff, but this is something I think he actually done right.

Originally posted by Muaddib
How does the fact that Moore lied about the healthcare system in Cuba relates to this discussion?

From what I saw... he was being more specific to the ease of getting care in Cuba, as compared to the U.S. I'm not sure I recall him discussing that Cuban care is better, but that anyone can get access. That's not a lie.

I always enjoy hearing someone else's viewpoint. This does not mean I take it as Gospel, it simply means I enjoy many perspectives. I would hope that the rest of you would join me in rataining an unbiased attitude toward the film until viewed. Having information, regardless of its truthiness, is hardly a bad thing.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
From what I saw... he was being more specific to the ease of getting care in Cuba, as compared to the U.S. I'm not sure I recall him discussing that Cuban care is better, but that anyone can get access. That's not a lie.

Yes it is when you need to be in castro's circle or you need to be a rich foreigner to get the proper medical access...

Regular hospitals in Cuba many times do not have the supplies needed to help the Cuban people.

Most of the time they even lack essentials such as disposable gloves, the same happens not only to hospitals but dentist offices too. They don't get the materials they need sometimes for months, and when they get something is not enough....

Hell, even the regular Cuban bodegas (shops) are most of the time empty, while the tourist shops are full and lots of exports, which includes food, leave Cuba to spread the "revolution" to other countries...

Sorry to tell you but Moore is once again lying....

Yes, but the American health care system works so well, that a woman laid down on the floor of a hospital emergency room, begging for help, and others made 911 calls, all to no avail, the woman died.

I bet this woman could have found better health care in Cuba, or anywhere other than where she went, and died.

Originally posted by Netami

If you haven't seen the movie, he was trying to make the point i guess about why/how come that our enemies that were being held in Guantanamo bay getting the best treatment there is at the base. How come we are taking better care of our enemies than our Heros, Specifically those of 9/11.
.........................

If those Americans who went to Cuba were given good medicines then they went to tourist hospitals and not to the regular hospitals which all the Cubans have to go to... Tourist hospitals are off limits to regular Cubans, and only tourists with money, or those in the tight circle of castro have access to these "tourist hospitals".

Some of you really have no idea what happens over there...hell most of the time the Cuban people have to ask for their families outside Cuba to get them the medicines they need because they don't have them at the island....

Moore didn't get anything right... This is a publicity stunt coordinated with castro and thugs to make you think "the healthcare system is wonderful in Cuba", when that is not true...