First Annual ATS Invitational (unofficial)

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Something i was thinking too is we need to start a research site.

Not sure if I'm allowed to plug a site but there is one. I believe BsBray runs it. You might want to contact him and see. I haven't had time to check the site out much lately, because of studying but it's a pretty good site. It's specifically geared towards 9/11 research, so I don't think it's a conflict with ATS.

The last few days I've been looking up at setting up a blog or a wiki for that purpose.

1) How to do it anonymously
2) How to deal with the legal side of it?

If the site does start hosting some really good stuff on 9/11, it is going to become a target.

I just suggested writing a document called the Unofficial 9/11 Commission Report, that contains only the most high caliber research going. If there is nothing to substantiate a fact or theory, it doesn't get in, then when it is compiled, it is released to every major news network on the planet.

I'm compiling a list of people to contact about the idea.

[edit on 17-4-2007 by mirageofdeceit]

Originally posted by mirageofdeceit
The last few days I've been looking up at setting up a blog or a wiki for that purpose.

1) How to do it anonymously
2) How to deal with the legal side of it?

If the site does start hosting some really good stuff on 9/11, it is going to become a target.

I just suggested writing a document called the Unofficial 9/11 Commission Report, that contains only the most high caliber research going. If there is nothing to substantiate a fact or theory, it doesn't get in, then when it is compiled, it is released to every major news network on the planet.

I'm compiling a list of people to contact about the idea.

[edit on 17-4-2007 by mirageofdeceit]

Well i am a government analyst and have access to sites that others might not have access to. I can post some unclassified sites that deal with resources like terrorist and terrorist events. And if you need some information you can pass it on to me and i can see if i can get the information you need.

So far, I have heard a lot of really good ideas.

Now, I would really like to get some input from the other side about this idea. I find it hard to believe that nobody is interested.

If we want to get more people involved, i think we will need to hype this up a bit...

Flag it! And try to taunt oct'rs into participating.

I find it very unfortunate that this seems to be dying...

If none of the official story supporters express interest in debating this in an honest and structured arena, then i will take that to mean that they forfeit. I challenge you all to a dual!

Its ironic that this is the one thread where OCT's dont even show their faces. The specter of being asked to present evidence and validate the claims that you are making seems to be too scary of a prospect.

Wow, well you guys are way above my league, but I would love to check in on the debate for sure. It would be good to have the facts all submitted in the proposed fashion. Without the mud slinging and the predisposed decissions, yes this could be enlightening.

U2U! U2U!
I'd do it but I don't know off the top o my head who's good at presenting OCT evidence... Issue personal invitations and they'll have a hard time not being egoed into at least popping in here with their enthusiasm report. Worked on me... Let 'em know the credibility of the official story is at stake.

It would probably be better to debate this issue by issue. The 'sides' you have outlined are difficult to determine. Someone may believe the towers were taken down by Arabs in planes but believe the government had foreknowledge.

The only way I can see this working is if you debate the spereate events/issues in different threads.

So bvasically do what we're doing...
Hmmm...

Hey! How about take what has already been put in and filter that for BS - peer review it so to speak? Verify sources, remove all hyperbole, namecalling, etc and say what's solid, what's proven, what's possible, what's highly unlikely - all opinion/spin/disinfo/BS aside, what stands? It's all in here somewhere -

Perhaps one issue at a time hacked into from both sides and as many agreements as possible reached?

My intentions were to make the sides in this debate as simplistic as possible; those whom believe the official story, and those that dont.

Theres all sorts of maybe this and maybe that, yadda yadda...

The truthers come in varying degrees, LIHOP, MIHOP, or just incredible stupidity that needs to be punished.

My goal is rather simplistic, either prove the official story is entirely correct, or prove that it is incomplete and deserves further investigation. Without all of the sleight of hand, misdirection, name calling, rumors, unsubstantiated facts, rampant speculation, woefully crappy excuses and explanation, and all the rest of that crap!

Originally posted by sp00n1
The truthers come in varying degrees, LIHOP, MIHOP, or just incredible stupidity that needs to be punished.

Just wondering who you would punish?

Originally posted by sp00n1
I find it very unfortunate that this seems to be dying...

Very sad that when it comes to debating the issues, the OCT'ers run and hide. NIST, Popular Mechanics, et al. where are you? Funny how when people on the oppossing side of the official theory want a real debate with real substanence, the OCT'ers aren't anywhere to be found. I know they are reading this because we keep bumping it. Time to put your money where your mouth is.

Btw, I'm looking into the drawings after tonight. It's going to be interesting what I find. Either way, I don't understand why the other side is backing down from a formal debate with no strawmen and no distractions?

Originally posted by CaptainLazy
The only way I can see this working is if you debate the spereate events/issues in different threads.

This is actually a good idea and what I was hoping that this would eventually evolve into. We need to lay down the facts...both sides. If we are ever to get anywere.

Originally posted by sp00n1
My goal is rather simplistic, either prove the official story is entirely correct, or prove that it is incomplete and deserves further investigation.

I think you nailed it right on the head. Mind if I quote that?

Originally posted by In nothing we trust

Originally posted by sp00n1
The truthers come in varying degrees, LIHOP, MIHOP, or just incredible stupidity that needs to be punished.

Just wondering who you would punish?

Personally, i am pretty much in the MIHOP field, as much as i absolutely hate to believe that. I wish somebody could explain this all away as some innocent mistake in a way that makes sense, however, the more time passes the less likely that becomes.

There are a number of people that dont believe the official story, but they dont believe conspiracies either. They think there was a government cover-up to protect their hides and to leech off of 9/11 for political gains. They wonder why general Myers got promoted one week after failing so miserably to do his job of protecting airspace.

These people only want those that screwed up to be fired and or publicly exposed. For whatever reason, it is not within their world view to believe in conspiracy theories. So, to that i say, "Just look at the facts then!"

Originally posted by Griff

Originally posted by sp00n1
My goal is rather simplistic, either prove the official story is entirely correct, or prove that it is incomplete and deserves further investigation.

I think you nailed it right on the head. Mind if I quote that?

By all means, i am a big promoter of fair use. I consider all of my posts to be 'public domain' despite the joke of a copyright notice...

All righty then. It is now part of my sig. Thanks.

Edit: That is, as soon as I can figure out the new layout.

Edit: It's there but I think I have too many...it's not showing up.

[edit on 4/20/2007 by Griff]

[edit on 4/20/2007 by Griff]

[edit on 4/20/2007 by Griff]

That is what I'm attempting. At least get people asking questions and demanding answers. Let's have a real investigation this time.

FYI: I don't believe the official story, and don't buy CTs unless there is solid proof, but then it isn't a CT anymore - it is fact.

I challenge anyone who believes the official story to step up to the plate and hit whatever proof they have right out of the ball park.

Let's start with the favorite: WTC 1 and 2 collapse.

[edit on 21-4-2007 by mirageofdeceit]

Actionable Consensus: Is necessary for any movement of any type. It'd be irrational to act on total assumptions, and good luck getting people to join you. Look at past examples:

Vietnam War Movement: Action didn't begin until there was obvious consensus that not only the war existed, but that it was imperialistic and dishonest and unjust.

Black Panther Movement: There was obvious consensus that systematic inequality and oppression were part of the daily routine.

911 Truth Movement: Action began as it was more and more obvious that 'something' stunk about the entire ordeal on the part of the establishment.

Now the 911 Turth ordeal has lost all sight of actionable consensus, and instead everyone seems to have an agenda on proving / debunking this or that theory. The actionable consensus has been lost, and at the current rate debate over issues like Flight 93, the Pentagon, and Controlled Demolitions will carry on forever.

The focus needs to be placed the issues that are undebatable, and then consensus can be reached, action achievable. That was the goal of that 911 contest post I did.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
( and other works like *9/11 Commission Report: "terrorist threats, was in the tens of thousands—probably hundreds of thousands.")
No offense, but if you look at the other examples in the thread you'll notice that many of the other arguments are highly debatable topics. If it's debatable there will be very little consensus, and instead endless debate and polarization between those who know anything about whatever issue.

Beyond 9/11, we need an across-the-board truth movement, and I'd say there's nearly enough actionable consensus for that.

[edit on 21-4-2007 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]