Imus is NOT the issue!!!! This may offend you!

Dock,

Are you just copying and pasting this stuff?? What you are posting is not really what we are discussing here. You are continuing the same discussion that I feel is causing these problems in the first place. You are feeding into this nonsense with your "color" commentary.

A couple other terms you might find interesting:

Cracker - referring to the white masters that held the whip on slave laborers.

Honky - in the 30's, white men would go seek out prostitutes in the getto and fearing for safety would "honk" instead of getting out of their car.

These terms are in use all the time without anyone blinking an eye. I don't like Imus and I don't agree with what he said, but I also think that the playing field should be fair for all people.

Thank you, Forest Lady.

I wasn't sure when the 'black' label was foisted on Negroes.

But I have done quite a bit of reading about those who instigated 'the black cause'. It was a particular group within society, jews in fact.

It's no secret. Jews dominated the civil rights movement from the outset. They 'invented' it and held virtually every position of influence -- to the point Negroes eventually saw through the jewish agenda and realised they'd been used. There's copious record of this, written from the Negro, the jewish and other perspective.

The Negroes were cruelly swindled by the 'black' label.

It was jews who formulated psychological techniques in marketing, etc.

They were well aware what 'black' personified. Although they may have portrayed 'black power' etc. as a positive label -- they would have been laughing up their sleeves at their Negro dupes. Because the jews, who are so numerous in tv, films, media, etc. know better than anyone that 'black' is widely regarded -- even at subconscious level -- as 'fearful', 'evil', 'bad', 'negative' and deathly.

The Negroes would not have realised that. 'Black Power' must have seemed a catchy slogan to them -- something that would grant them recognition.

Well, the fruits of that 'black' label are now rotting on the ground.

It's time Negroes disavowed the 'black' label and took back their strength, dignity and future.

If they still wish to categorise themselves through colour -- why not that of 'brown' as I said earlier, or even 'golden'.

Just imagine how things would change if --- instead of people in this thread referring to Negroes as 'black' -- instead referred to them as 'golden'.

Let's try it: ' The Goldens are irate about comments made by so and so.'

And: ' Golden leaders admitted today that far too many Golden males reside in State prisons.'

Or: ' Reknowned Golden activists announced today that by 2010, they hope to have introduced a new version of Gold Power to the Golden community, consisting of increased emphasis on education, sports and training for disadvantaged Golden youth.'

Oh yes ! That puts an entirely fresh perspective on things, doesn't it?

When you're Gold, you don't feel the need to take drugs or spout filth or drink yourself into the ground. When you're Gold, you're feeling good about yourself. Gold gives you hope! Gold generates RESPECT!

That abominable 'black' word HAS to GO !!!

Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander
A couple other terms you might find interesting:

Cracker - referring to the white masters that held the whip on slave laborers.

Honky - in the 30's, white men would go seek out prostitutes in the getto and fearing for safety would "honk" instead of getting out of their car.

These terms are in use all the time without anyone blinking an eye. I don't like Imus and I don't agree with what he said, but I also think that the playing field should be fair for all people.

Exactly. People here words like that all the time and don't care. It's only offensive if they are used towards black people.

It's funny, because I have hard Jesse Jackson talk about the statistics on black people being "jewed" on several occasions. Where is the outrage for that?

NYK537:

Why are you so antagonistic?

I'm trying to turn this around.

It seems you don't want it to be turned around.

It seems that you would prefer to stoke the hatred and divisiveness that's ripping our world apart.

Yes --- it is ALL about colour.

Why won't you see that.

Would you or those who support you in this thread BE posting here if colour were not involved?

Of course you wouldn't.

How dishonest of you to claim it's not about colour.

If colour were NOT involved, you wouldn't have a thread or a gripe or the self-righteousness you're using to justify any of this.

If Negroes were Caucasian, this thread would not exist.

Originally posted by Dock6
NYK537:

Why are you so antagonistic?

I'm trying to turn this around.

It seems you don't want it to be turned around.

It seems that you would prefer to stoke the hatred and divisiveness that's ripping our world apart.

Yes --- it is ALL about colour.

Why won't you see that.

Would you or those who support you in this thread BE posting here if colour were not involved?

Of course you wouldn't.

How dishonest of you to claim it's not about colour.

If colour were NOT involved, you wouldn't have a thread or a gripe or the self-righteousness you're using to justify any of this.

If Negroes were Caucasian, this thread would not exist.

You are wrong still. This really isn't about color. This is about things being equal for all people. This is about people being able to speak their minds without causing riots. I am not saying that speaking hate is acceptable, but if black people can use the language they do, then we should all be able to.

There is nothing self-righteous about that.

Originally posted by Dock6
If Negroes were Caucasian, this thread would not exist.

Oh, I don't know about that. Replace the racist nomenclature with any other skin color and the same crap resurfaces.

You don't even need to be of a different skin colour to be singled out for general harrassment. As a Dutch kid who moved to N. America in '54, I also had the pleasure of being discriminated against. Myself and my family were openly called DP's (Displaced Persons) for most of a decade by our good neighbours.

Discrimination runs deep in human nature and is best described in the way 'King of the Hill' is played. Once you're on top, the only way to stay there is by pushing all others down.

Getting back to the main point, I think (and correct me if I'm wrong) the OP is trying to say that AA's are trying to keep this thing going as long as possible. By that I mean an attitude of oppression. Instead of looking at the serious problem facing the AA community they prefer to use words from an old white guy to explain why they are in the position they are.

They prefer to keep things the way of history rather than change with the times. They want to be treated the same yet they want to be a separate group at the same time. They choose to speak in ebonics and think mainstream America should just accept it when for example they are applying for a job.

I am a white male but I have dated outside my race. For a time I had an AA girlfriend that dreamed of getting this certain position in the industry (Education) she was trained in and had a masters for from college. Unfortunately she couldn't get this position no matter where she went. So we started to examine why and come to find out nobody in her age group of any race worked in this position. She was 32 and all of the people holding that particular position were 40 or older. She could easily get the position on the very next level down but couldn't accept that. On top of it all she often misused words and her written grammar was terrible. I often tried to help her with grammar and sentence structure and tried to support her thru one crying session after another. How did she handle it? By accusing every supervisor, every interviewer or anyone else involved of being racist. Even though it was obvious that it had nothing to do with race. She did the same thing when we broke up. Is it because I'm Black she said. Why would I have dated her exclusively for 8 months and then suddenly dropped her because of race? We were just too different; she was too bossy, constantly made demands and broke down over everything.

I would like to know why Obama's racist church is not in the limelight? Someone tell me that? I am sorry to say that a great deal of AA's want to keep tensions and racism alive and well.

I have always treated people on an individual basis and will continue to do so but I just can't help but see a double standard along with the other problems the OP talked about.

Yes there is racism and there are racists from every culture and background and as I've said in the past we all have a little bit in us no matter who we are or what we say.

Like the OP said, we are not getting to the root cause of why things are the way they are in the AA community. Again, it aint because of what an old white guy said on the radio.

jbondo: that was an exceptionally good and balanced post

I do appreciate the point of the OP and the points it contains.

And yes, I do agree that the 'AA' community is having a field day: is grasping this opportunity to play victim; to impose double-standards; to hog the limelight with this storm in a tea-cup, etc. All of which is clear to most.

I can sympathise with the indignation re: all this, as voiced by the OP and others. In fact, I've supported a very similar OP elsewhere in the forums.

But then it hit me: the 'AA' community has been reduced to THIS ! To whining about some basically innocuuous comment made off the cuff: a comment which in any case is just a faint echo of AA rhetoric.

Sure. This situation provides us an opportunity to express indignation and self-righteousness. Just as those ill-thought comments by Imus provided the AA community an opportunity to express similar outrage, indignation and self-righteous rant.

And it will continue, on and on. We'll live and die and it will still be going on.

But in all honesty, surely we can admit that if the AAs felt better about themselves, then THEY wouldn't be salivating at the chance to brandish the outraged-victim stick.

It would be nice, wouldn't it, if WE didn't have to feel guilty and if the AAs didn't have to feel like a sub-class? Better for all of us. I certainly don't enjoy carrying a guilt load -- particularly when I know my guilt is being manipulated and increased by a group which has now become addicted to victimhood and to foisting guilt on my group because it excuses THEM from ever getting a grasp on emotional maturity i.e. taking responsibility for themselves.

I feel the 'black' label is poison.

Sorry. I had a eureka moment.

Apologies all.

There is something I agree with Dock.

This is all about being a victim. I believe the AA community would rather continue to be victims than equals. I really do. Because as long as they are victims, they don't have to succeed in life. They will always have something to blame their failures and shortcomings on.

In my opinion they don't want things to change. That's why they keep fighting these pointless battles. They wan't things to stay like they always have been.

I live in the Detroit area we are one of the major melting pots in the US. We have many African-Americans, Arab-American, Polish-Americans, Asian-American, Italian-Americans, Irish-Americans, Greek-Americans and probably every other nationality in the world.

Prejudice and racism exists in every race, even in blacks. Since I grew up in the Detroit area I have seen and heard it all. Blacks sometimes, are prejudice against someone that is not black enough or maybe even to black. Doesn't talk black enough or talks to white...you get my point

It happens amoungst whites, Asians, everyone your to fat, to ugly, to smart, to stupid, to pretty, to rich, etc......we all judge each other based on actions, looks, intellegence or whatever else we can dig up to take the heat off ourselves. This is how human nature is we judge.

Also there is the human factor when people just screw-up and say something they regret, but instead of allow for an apology, the witch hunt begins.

I think it is time for people to stop pointing fingers and take some personal responsiblity and do the best they can with the "hand of cards they have been dealt."


[edit on 12-4-2007 by Realtruth]

Originally posted by Realtruth
I think it is time for people to stop pointing fingers and take some personal responsiblity and do the best they can with the "hand of cards they have been dealt."

AMEN!

That is one of my main points here. Perhaps we should stop pointing out each others differences and start looking at our similarities. Maybe that would start to turn things around.

Language not only reveals personal biases and perspectives, it perpetuates them. For instance in English, where there are masculine and feminine pronouns, the masculine pronoun has become the template for most texts etc. This can perpetuate a male dominated society by encouraging the secondary status of the female pronoun.

The fact that words like honky and cracker are treated with a double standard reveals more about the true nature of racism and the reality that 'white' continues to connote better education, higher living standards, ideals of beauty and all the other more desirable aspects of our culture.

Words have connotations and denotations and some people are easier to insult by way of their vulnerability. If you have been raised in a slave culture, on an island where your grandparents were habitually beaten and murdered into submission, and the only language you have access to is patois - then your chances of competing in the slave-masters culture are severely curtailed. And it is to be expected that this kind of traumatic legacy will be visited upon future generations who will suffer the persecution and neglect of all their forefathers by virtue of being born into a robbed heritage. It's no fault of their own, but a terrible indictment on human nature and the cruelty that continues to justify such a beleaguered sub-class with accusations of failure to meet up to slave master standards.

Following on from my above post, I'll add that I feel the term 'black' *IS* extremely divisive, hence my queries regarding the commencement of the term 'black' to replace the proper and correct term of Negro.

It's the same reason that white is used vs caucasian. It's pretty simple.

Does everyone in this thread realise that he did not use the regular N word, he used the other N word?


Let's also try to stay on topic. Let's not discuss people like Jackson and Sharpton who are pointless to this discussion.

I am looking forward to the meeting with Imus and those girls he called Nappy Headed Hoes! That is what I am looking forward to. For him to sit face to face with these girls, who are up and coming in the world, into a world that views them as such and discuss the impact this had on them.

All these discussions are leaving this out, going off topic and not looking into the human factor and I would like to see things get back to that.

Okay, okay. I'm gonna make this short and sweet, and you're not gonna interrupt me. First of all, Imus is a moron, he should have stepped down the moment he stepped up. He has a history of pseudo-sarcastic racist, anti-semetic, and other various prejudice remarks, if you've ever heard his show (and you're not just civil rights zealot who wants to state unjustified opinions). So what. He doesn't read a slang dictionary; he didn't have his "Ebonics" manual. He thought he was saying something that was funny and pushing the envelope, but not over the line. Again, he's a moron, and he should have stepped down the moment he stepped up - so, naturally this is a good thing he made a huge blunder and got himself fired... BUT. Here is the issue; the issue is this: Why is Al Sharpton jumping on the wagon here? He's a bunko-artist. He wants to jump up and cry about the injustices, the white man is holding us down this, the white man ruining our self-worth that. He and the NAACP should be ashamed of theirselves, when it is the rappers (who Imus was trying to imitate) who are doing everything Imus is accused of. They are the ones who have created those words, and it is them who glorify the stereo-type the NAACP despises so much. I hate Bill O'Reilly, but I must acquiesce, he is right in this area, and if Al Sharpton and the NAACP wanna go flying their MLK pictures around, they should think about what he would think of their complete inactivity in tackling the biggest threat to their people: the corruption and ignorance of their role models.

"but rap music isnt talking about young collegiate students who are making something of their life. We rappers are actually talking about the real life hos that you see in the ghettos who are always trying to steal a niggas money." - Snoop Dog

The hypocrisy knows no bounds.

Originally posted by semperfoo
"but rap music isnt talking about young collegiate students who are making something of their life. We rappers are actually talking about the real life hos that you see in the ghettos who are always trying to steal a niggas money." - Snoop Dog

The hypocrisy knows no bounds.

I agree with the Snoop Dog. But Imus isn't smart enough to make that distinction. He's just blurting out whatever floats into his head when he's trying to be funny (or offensive).

I always think there's a deeper conspiracy to most things. So my opinion is that someone offered Imus an early retirement package to start this mess in order to further some agenda or cause a distraction from something else.

Hey, If you dont like it theres always the option of turning it off or completely ignoring it altogether.

The thing with snoop dog is that he pevokes this type of language because he is a media icon. I hate rap hip hop personally. I listen to rock. But just because I dont like rap doesnt mean im going to try and get it banned. I simply choose not to listen to it.

[edit on 103030p://5204pm by semperfoo]

I would like to chime in on this one:
For my own part, I do not follow what is stated, but what Imus stated, is part of a symptom of what is out there on alot of celebratys minds these days. Be is Imus over the Radio, or Richards in a comedy club going off on different people.
Part of the problem is that in this day and age, we have to be Politically correct, and that tends to get some into trouble, as the rules change as to what is PC and what is not.
My self, I think what he did was in bad tastes, just that this is probably not the first time he used that language at all.
Words have power, but when used incorrectly as Imus did, can hurt and give a bad image to alot of people and when used correctly can sooth and help.
When can people move on and just live and treat each other with dignity.
I caught a show on Bravo, starring Woppie Goldberg. IN this show, and if you think about it, she states, that there are no pure races out there anymore. Those days are fading, as alot of people are of mix origin.

Originally posted by Harassment101

I am looking forward to the meeting with Imus and those girls he called Nappy Headed Hoes! That is what I am looking forward to. For him to sit face to face with these girls, who are up and coming in the world, into a world that views them as such and discuss the impact this had on them.

All these discussions are leaving this out, going off topic and not looking into the human factor and I would like to see things get back to that.

This IS the human factor. They factor is that they are only upset because Imus is white. If he were a black man and said what he said. It would be a regular laugh riot for them. They would all think it was funny and move on. Because he is white, however, that makes him a racist.

The black community is more racist to itself than anyone else is.