Billy Meier UFO Contact Hoax: Discussion

Originally posted by LightWorker13
I saw an episode of myth busters where they investigated the "ice bullet" and indeed it was no myth.

An assassin can fire an ice bullet to kill someone without leaving a trace.

busted

The bullet was simply too brittle to be used.

(This myth was revisted in episode 14 and it was busted again.)

mythbustersresults.com...

[edit on 13/4/07 by ConspiracyNut23]

Gazrok,

I noticed this new thread on the Billy Meier ray gun pictures, complete with mis-dated photos (1988).

First, yes, I completely do stand behind those photos. I direct your members to read:

www.theyfly.com...

This will give some answers to the reasonable questions about the gun and the gold foil outfit. And for those who really like to think and reason, look at the 1977 picture of Meier with the gun (there's also a video of him with it) and get a sense of the relatively stark environment that existed on the property at the time. Does anyone think that the gold foil suit, with the silver-looking bracelet, was an affordable priority had it even been available to Meier? In this same line of thinking, consider that when the investigators went to a metallurgist to see if he could make the famous Wedding Cake UFO) they were told that he indeed could...but that it would cost $25,000 (in 1980), a sum that Meier clearly didn't have available to him (he was receiving a disability pension as his main source of income). Of course any presumed model has never surfaced in more than 25 years.

See: www.theyfly.com...

Your readers should also keep in mind that the original eight-year investigation by the team, plus the subsequent investigation by Gary Kinder (author of Light Years), as well as the ensuing 20 years of research and investigation have still not revealed any conspirators, collaborators, technological or financial assistance, nor anyone with any of the requisite abilities to have hoaxed the mountains of still irreproducible evidence. The combined research has yielded over 1,300 pages of published information, all of which also remains remarkably non self-contradictory.

Some other points. If you're going to criticize the case, which is of course fair game, at least do sufficient research to get some basic facts straight. The alleged Plejaren (human) extraterrestrials indeed do have five fingers on each hand. Your mistake is confusing them with the far more recently appearing seven-fingered hand prints, by alleged members on another race, as explained here:

www.theyfly.com...

By the way, I did some research on the phase that the moon was in during this time and it was quite dark. The significance is this, there was insufficient light to hoax such evidence (if indeed it is even hoaxable) and several other factors make hoaxing extremely unlikely. These include the presence of the night watch (long ago deemed necessary because of the nearly two-dozen attempts on Meier's life and armed kidnapping attempt against his daughter), the graveled road (makes approaching cars and foot traffic immediately audible, especially in the stillness of night) and the two...peacocks, which are excellent alarm systems.

These hand prints, papillary lines and all, are still visible in the original vehicle's paint finish and, as perhaps another joke, some recently appeared on one of the other cars at the center. Despite Meier's willingness to have the prints scientifically examined, there have been no qualified takers to his offer, only the derision of armchair experts a considerable distance from the action.

And comments about all the money Meier has presumably made are simply laughable for anyone who knows the situation in Switzerland and who has actually seen the books of the non-profit organization that is FIGU, as I have for the past six years.

For further consideration regarding the claims of duplicating/debunking Meier's UFO photos, films and video please see www.theyfly.com... where you can learn about the failed efforts of Jeff Ritzmann, photographer, model maker and miniature tree cultivator, who was unable to produce even one photos showing his model UFO next to a miniature tree to prove that he could indeed duplicate photos such as are found in the above referred to article. And RItzmann is vehement about my not using his model UFO photos in comparison with Meier's, a rather peculiar position to take for someone who claims to be debunking such a fraud and hoax as he accuses Meier of being.

Lastly, your readers should thoroughly peruse:

www.figu.org...
www.theyfly.com...
www.gaiaguys.net...

All of these contain information on the true nature of most UFO sightings, extraterrestrials, etc. This info may be "too much" for all the believers in various ET hypotheses because it is quite clear in detailing the terrestrial nature and origin of these things, which, if true, is not only a bubble buster for many, many people but also presents further reason to contemplate the dreaded possibility that the Meier case is authentic...and that certain parties with vested interests in promoting a contrary conclusion have been making fools of us for many decades.

Yes, there are questions about some photos, which I have honestly attempted to answer, in part by asking people to consider that if there indeed have been so many unsuccessful attempts on the man's life (an awful lot of trouble to take to get rid of a "hoaxer"), then is it so unlikely that sophisticated attempts to assassinate his character and credibility would be made by parties with the resources to do so?

Finally, a new documentary film on the Meier case will be completed by this summer. We've even gone to the trouble of including a fairly lengthy segment by one of the top professional skeptics making his, and his organization's, best case against Meier and the evidence. We'll let the viewers -and the readers here - decide the truth for themselves.















[edit on 13-4-2007 by Michael12]

Care to explain this Mr. Horn?
Photo
I'm certain as Billy's Liason, you can merely keep claiming it is because he made a model(s) for his children....
or that his children made the models for him based off his descriptions.

Note:
Long ago when I was a younger man I believed that Billy's pictures were the real deal...
However, it is now obvious to me and many others that trickery was involved(allegedly). lol
I once thought to myself he must be real, because a guy with one arm couldn't possibly hoax all this. But you know, one time I had a neighbor that had one arm, and i watched his do all kinds of things. He even was high on a ladder putting up christmas lights!
so..
yep.

[edit on 13-4-2007 by WhiteWash]

Oh goody. Mr. Horn pops into the thread.

Finally, some entertainment.

Originally posted by MrPenny
Oh goody. Mr. Horn pops into the thread.

Finally, some entertainment.

Lol. This certainly will become interesting.
I just wondered if I shall join the comming 'Ray-Gun'-Battle or sit back and enjoy it with some popcorn. I decided to do the later. (For the moment.)

Yes, I can explain it and I'll do so this way. The entire matter of the models is covered on pages 285 - 291 of UFO contact from the PLEAIDES A PRELIMINARY INVESTIGATION REPORT, 1982, published by lead investigator Wendelle Stevens, so it's hardly either a new revelationo or one worthy of too much discussion.

Suffice it to say that I will not go into all the details except to say that this was an OPEN attempt by Meier and a friend to try to duplicate the UFO and photograph it. The investigators were made aware of it and of the attempt by a Swiss man to claim that this was somehow proof that Meier was faking the photos! The model photos, which were viewed by a number of people, were deemed inferior to the actual UFO photos Meier was taking (by the hundreds).

The investigative team took the idea a step further and actually had two models made at the MGM studios special effects department at about $400 each, which was a more impressive sum in those days. They went about setting up still shots with the model in some of the same locations where Meier photographed his UFOs. Many locations were not possible to shoot recreations at because of steep, sloping hillsides, etc. such as prevented anyone from being able to set up faked shots with the model on a pole. This is quite telling in itself, for an objective observer.

The shots that were taken (by Meier with his same camera and by the investigators with theirs) were analyzed and found to not in any way conform to hte characteristics of the authentic shots (see free photo analysis document at my site).

However, since people will still often try to milk the model theory, we have included footage of the MGM model in our film. Now, people can use their own eyes and reasoning ability to compare Meier's UFO film footage with the model...and decide the truth for themselves.

Thanks for the opportunity to address the model question.

Michael Horn
Authorized American Media Representative
The Billy Meier Contacts

A few simple questions concerning the photos in the original post on page 1 of this thread:

-Who took those photos?

-Are there any full body photos?

-If not, why not? Perfect photos of a UFO, but out of frame on something equally as important?

The photos were taken by Meier. The decision to not photograph the faces of the people, or more of their bodies, was made based on the fact that the case wasn't really about them or the UFOs as much as about us and the relevance to us of the information.

They were well aware of the over-attention that we pay to personalities and the ready tendency to worship, preoccupy ourselves with and set others up as more important and "special" than ourselves.

While such simple explanations often don't satisfy some people, a simple look around at our religions and cults with their gods, saints and idols, as well as the New Age hang up on masters (ascended, distended, pretended, etc.), gurus, angels, etc. lends credibility to this explanation.

Besides, what the heck are we going to do with photos of alleged ETs if not further entertain and/or distract ourselves from the work at hand?

MH
www.theyfly.com

Uh, wasn't Wendelle Stevens convicted of a felony child molestation back in the 80's? Didn't he serve time in AZ? Was he "set up"? Hasn't he given "testimony" in the anals of Ufology? I think I've seen him in at least a half-dozen doc's. Hmmm. I smell folks selling stuff.

A link to a copy of the original San Franciso Examiner piece by Science Writer Keay Davidson for those with an interest: www.skepticfiles.org...

Cheers,

Vic.

Very specific, detailed information has already been posted here and I have no problem providing more to answer legitimate questions to the best of my ability.

The purpose of the discussion is to determine the truth of the matter so I suggest sticking to it. Attempting to smear people or make claims of financial motives - when none are either present or expressed - are not worthy of further commentary.

MH
www.theyfly.com

Originally posted by Michael12
Besides, what the heck are we going to do with photos of alleged ETs ...

Yeah, those photos would be useless.

Of course you would photograph faces and bodies.

Why take pictures of UFO's?

Why take photos of "weapons"?

The occupant of the spacecraft is not important? What?

The photos were taken by Meier. The decision to not photograph the faces of the people, or more of their bodies, was made based on the fact that the case wasn't really about them or the UFOs as much as about us and the relevance to us of the information.

So this comes down to the relevance of information from objects and beings that are irrelevant.

Amazing.

So we can disagree about the importance of various "things". We can also contemplate the absence, in more than 35 years, of anyone claiming to be the person in the gold suit, or the maker of model UFOs, ray guns, etc. Certainly there would be some major attention, and big bucks in it, for anyone proving to be complicit in such a longstanding "hoax".

And we can disagree about liking or not liking how some people chose/choose to carry out their particular mission in life.

But how's about addressing the content of the information and the likelihood that the case is authentic or not? That certainly can include questioning the evidence and how it was tested, etc. but we can also view it as the attention-getting "stuff" that will hopefully lead us to deeper inquiry.

MH
www.theyfly.com

Allow me to interpret the lack of attacks to an enormously refreshing, honest open-mindedness on the part of the participants here who presumably took the information and answers to heart, i.e. looked into and considered the facts of the case, rather than just the hearsay.

The first question is always this, is the Meier case authentic or is it a hoax? While I come down firmly on the side of authenticity, after long study of the evidence, I never say that everything in it is true, simply because I have no way of knowing that since much of the information deals with the distant past or future. And I also have good reason to accept both Meier's and the investigator's concerns that some evidence was stolen, tampered with, etc.

The fact that there are plenty of things in the case that don't fit our preconceptions and ideas about just how an ET case is "supposed" to be, look, etc. shouldn't stop us from either questioning it or allowing positive evidence to change our own preconceptions and beliefs.

The second question, for me, is, if the case is indeed authentic...what does it mean to us?

MH
www.theyfly.com

Michae12 I appreciate you taking the time to address some of the questions posted here.

As you can see, however, the total ignorance displayed by most of the posters on this thread is because the sum of their information is derived from the internet and not from personal investigation.

Most, if not all, Bill Meier detractors shoot from the hip. They don't have the faintest idea of the real story behind the Meiers case and believe me they aren't going to take the time to thoroughly research it.

Its sad to see some of the posters on this thread fall all over themselves trying to beat out one another attempting to discredit Billy Meier.

Thanks again for the explanations, I continue to believe the Bill Meier case (exluding the wild disinformtiion usually posted about the Meiers case) is true.

I'm glad you chimed in on this Mr. Lear.

In your opinion, was Meier set up? I always believed that a lot of the stuff used to discredit him was planted and manufactured by somebody else. Your thoughts please?

Peace

Hey Michael, good to see back at ATS. Drop me line anytime, you have my email address.
Your arguments above are knowledgeable and thorough as always.

Dallas

Hi John,

Thanks for your input. You're certainly right about the lack of personal investigation into the case. I've had many, many arguments with various skeptics and, to a person, not one of them adequately researched the information.

Even the top professional skeptics have made gross errors, largely due to only a superficial perusal of the case. Too many people come to the Meier case either assuming, or intending to prove, that it's a hoax.

If the alleged Plejaren do exist, if they are indeed space (and sometimes time) traveling humans who have solved some rather lofty scientific (and spiritual) problems, then I don't think that it's too much to consider that they have deliberately presented the information and evidence in a way that will have the intended result, i.e. to get us thinking and...taking back ALL of our personal responsibility and power from the parties that we have allowed to usurp it.

Clearly, they could "prove" their existence in a minute or two and not take some 65+ years of somewhat indirect means to do so. Obviously, the intent isn't to prove their existence but to let us draw our own conclusions in the course of study. This will ultimately be a much more self-empowering process for us and, when, in the distant future, we are finally civilized enough, collectively, for interaction with an advanced race, we won't be so ready to either (again) worship or attack them.

Best,

MH
www.thefly.com

[edit on 16-4-2007 by Michael12]

Hi Dallas,

Please email me directly with your address as I want to be sure I have the right one. Thanks.

MH
www.thefyly.com
[email protected]

Originally posted by Dr Love
I'm glad you chimed in on this Mr. Lear.

In your opinion, was Meier set up? I always believed that a lot of the stuff used to discredit him was planted and manufactured by somebody else. Your thoughts please?

Peace

There has been a huge coordinated effort to discredit Billy Meier. Every single 'hoax' story has an interesting and different background. Yes, Billy Meiers was set up several times.

So many aspects of the Meiers case are extremely interesting for those who care to find out the truth.

Mr. Love,

Just a little item about the set up. The original investigators, Wendelle Stevens, Lee & Brit Elders, were (from their first trips on) picked up by the CIA in London, as they connected to Switzerland. Wendelle has spoken about this publicly and I have discussed this with him and with Lee & Brit privately. There has been ongoing surveillance of Meier (his home/center, FIGU members, etc.) for over 30 years by both the CIA and European intelligence services. Likewise, there has been theft and falsification of some of Meier's photographic evidence.

One of the things that they told me is that the heaviest surveillance began after Marcel Vogel revealed that he found rare earth elements, like Thulium, in the metal samples. Since this was/is an expensive, and at the time even more rare, element with various properties and applications of interest militarily, Meier was taken far more seriously, since the idea that UFO could be faked was also held by the intelligence people (probably until the CIA took their own photo of one of the craft above Meier's place!).

Anyway, with Vogel's honest assessment that HE couldn't put the alloy sample together himself, due also to the micro-machining and the probable manufacture through cold fusion, various parties suddenly took the case quite seriously. It is also said that certain superconductors came out of IBM about a year after Vogel's analysis.

Wendelle Stevens is a treasure trove of information about the case and, of course, the available Meier material (much of it freely available) contians more info on the efforts to discredit the case, such as Korff's, etc.

Best,

MH
www.thefly.com