Unregistered handguns

I went to the gun show last week and saw people buying handguns from unlicensed dealers and not having to register them. If this is the case, why would anyone buy a handgun from a licensed dealer and allow Big Brother to know you have it?

Peace

[edit on 10-4-2007 by Dr Love]

I'm not sure what state you're in, and laws vary wildly by state.

Here in Greater Texas, a gun is personal property, and you have a sacred right to own things, with no interference from authority.

It's an object, which you have a right to possess without any kind of title or registration, either. Make sense, really, when you realize that cars kill 5 times as many americans as guns do.

So, you can buy or sell your shootin' iron to me or anybody else. We don't have to exchange anything but money and guns, unless we want to make a social event out of it.

So you're right. Why indeed would anyone go to a dealer?

(I once bought a .25 cal raven pistol for a case of beer and a box of assorted fireworks. I probably got taken, to be honest.)

The ONLY reason to go to a dealer is to get brand-new items, and a guarantee of quality, and a promise of . . . ummm. . . shall we say, lack-of-stolen-ness.

The only thing worse than being arrested on a gun charge, is being arrested on a stolen gun charge. And the only thing worse than being arrested with a stolen firearm, is when you learn that it was your ex-wife who filed the charges . . . but that's another thread.

.

[edit on 10-4-2007 by dr_strangecraft]

It completely depends on the state. Here in Ohio, all gun dealers need to be registered but that is nothing more than a paperwork formality really. There is a requirement that all new handguns purchased from a registered dealer be registered with the state. There has been discussion about doing away the gun shows in the state but I have no real idea where that is in the legislature. I've been trying to stay on top of it and have written my reps that I oppose such a measure - but it's buried in the bureaucracy

It is the same here in Virginia. Guns do not have to be registered unless you purchase them from a licenced dealer. Person to person I only have to agree to sell my gun to you. It is no ones buisness but ours. I just do two bills of sale ..and we sign both of them and date them. One copy is mine and the other is to the new owner.

People go to a licensed dealer to get new guns or a bigger variety in one location. I have purchased both ways..from licensed dealers and from private owners.

As someone aptly stated...it is up to the individual states.

Thanks,
Orangetom

why do you even need guns?

for what protection, hunting? i don't really understand the point of owning a semi-automatic or automatic gun for protection or hunting

im glad i live in Australia where it is illegal to own automatic guns.

i'd like to hear you justification.

Originally posted by purplemonkey

im glad i live in Australia where it is illegal to own automatic guns.

I'm glad you do, too.

i'd like to hear you justification.

I don't need a justification. I can do what I want here, without breaking the law. Some people like motorcycles, others enjoy guns. Motorcycles are far more dangerous by the way.

They are fun to shoot. They are also handy in the spring, when rattlesnakes are active. Much more portable than carrying a shovel everywhere when you're on foot in tall grass.

I just like e'm. How's that.

Originally posted by purplemonkey

for what protection, hunting? i don't really understand the point of owning a semi-automatic or automatic gun for protection or hunting

i'd like to hear you justification.

Laying aside the more general question of "why own guns in the first place", let me toss a two-part question back at you.

Part 1: What's wrong with a semi-automatic pistol, rifle, or shotgun for hunting use?

Part 2: What's wrong with a semi-automatic pistol, rifle, or shotgun for protective use?

Now, back to our regularly scheduled reply...
My hunting gun depends on what I'm hunting, but for most ducks, rabbit, squirrel, quail, or doves, I use a Browning pump-action 12 guage. For skeet / trap shooting, I use a Benelli Super Black Eagle II (left hand). Why? Because I don't always hit my target on the first shot (I'm good, but I'm not God ). There's also the multiple-target problem...several quail breaking cover, or multiple skeet launched...not a good time to have a single-shot.

As for protection, when I carry a handgun (rarely for protection, fairly often for recreational target popping), I use a Taurus 9mm...not because I expect t o *need* 15 rounds to hit a target, but because (on a target range) I like the way the pistol shoots. In a protection situation, I'd much rather find myself out of hostile targets, and still having ready shots than out of ready shots and still having hostile targets. Then again, if I really feel that my wife and I are in danger, you can *have* the semi-automatic pistol...I'm going to bank on one of the shotguns at home-defense ranges.

I guess the point of my somewhat rambling reply is that semi-automatic weapons are for the convenience of the shooter. Automatic weapons, at least in my humble opinion, are a completely different matter, and one that far too many people don't bother to differentiate from their semi-automatic bretheren.

Originally posted by purplemonkey
why do you even need guns?

for what protection, hunting? i don't really understand the point of owning a semi-automatic or automatic gun for protection or hunting

im glad i live in Australia where it is illegal to own automatic guns.

i'd like to hear you justification.

Why do you need a fast car?

For driving to work, driving to the market? Using your rationale, I really don't understand the point of owning a car that can travel faster than 30miles/hr as that is the safest reasonable speed that ensures survival in 80% of collisions.

You have these cars for the same reason that americans have firearms - because you can. It is your right.

If motobike were more dangerous were guns why would countries fight wars with guns?, ture motocyles may take more lives than guns in the US (i'm not sure if that is true maybe you should come up with some evidence to support that) but the fact is that guns are more effective killers

You don't need semi-automatci or automatic guns for hunting! its just not nessacry

i carn't really be botherred to wirte anymore because i homework to do, but do you think america would be safer with or with out guns? be honest with your answer

Originally posted by purplemonkey

You don't need semi-automatci or automatic guns for hunting! its just not nessacry

i carn't really be botherred to wirte anymore because i homework to do, but do you think america would be safer with or with out guns? be honest with your answer

You don't need a car that travels faster than 30 mph to travel, but you still have one. Why? - because it makes things easier, it is more enjoyable to drive. Same goes for hunting. What happens if you miss your first shot? A semi gives the option of a fast follow-up shot if desired. You obviously don't hunt. Yes you can hunt with single shot weapons (most people do), but a semy can give you an edge.

Self defense - What happens when the first shot doesn't stop the 220lb knife wielding lunatic who wants to be special friends with your daughter?

As for the question "would america be safer without guns", then I would have to say yes. I would also have to say that it would be worse off, as the proper use of firearms can give a great degree of enjoyment and safety. This is an unpopular viewpoint among many, but these people tend to have little or no experience with firearms apart from TV, and can be paranoid to the point of ignorance about this sport.

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft

Originally posted by purplemonkey

im glad i live in Australia where it is illegal to own automatic guns.

I'm glad you do, too.

I'm not a pistol owner yet, but I go to the range and shoot my buddy's Kimber .45 and Glock .45 and it's damn fun, except when you get hot brass down your shirt.

As far as the thread topic goes, yeah, I guess buying from a dealer would guarantee a gun wasn't stolen. I didn't even think about that.

What happens if the cops find you with a gun that has the serial number filed off?

Peace

There's also the question of acceptable costs within a culture.

Take alcoholism as an example. A terrible social burden in any nation. Some nations are willing to put very restrictive limits on what types of alcohol may be sold, and who can buy it. Other nations, who see liberal consumption of alcohol as part of their heritage, are willing to pay the social price.

In many US states, the social cost of accidental shootings is considered acceptable by the public, in exchange for the right to defend themselves. The vast majority of handguns in the US are sold to people who seek protection from crime.


Here's a collection of articles about citizens with concealed carry permits defending themselves against attackers: here
I linked it because it has recent stories, and carries info from more than one state.

Originally posted by Dr Love

What happens if the cops find you with a gun that has the serial number filed off?

Peace

You can't file it off so much that a crime lab cannot raise it. The stamp alters the metal down into the frame for several milimeters, so you'd have to DIG into the gun to remove all traces.

They x-ray or acid etch the gun, and charge you with any crimes the gun was used in, is my guess.

As a matter of fact, you can go to the police with the serial number of any gun, an ask them whether it's hot. They can check with the FBI, and give you an affidavit that the gun wasn't reported stolen at the time of your purchase. Most agencies in TX will do it for free, others may charge you five bucks or so.

.

I would get around it if I could. Don't plan on doing anything bad. Just don't like letting the "Man" know everything about me.

Only bad thing is if you get caught with out one. They tend to come down pretty hard. Of course in the future when they try and take our guns, those with out licenses may be the only ones who get to keep theirs.

PS Dr. Love I know the hot brass feeling. Had one go down the back of my shirt once. Burned like hell.

PS For all the females out there, never, never, ever wear a revealing shirt. I had a girl who did and has a nice scar between her two ladies if you know what I mean.

[edit on 19-4-2007 by Royal76]

hey..who have cheap guns for sale?..just wanna know..just post it..

Being from Virginia (and also an avid reader of the Valley Trader for those NOVA residents reading) I actually prefer to purchase my firearms through brick-and-mortar stores because I take pride in putting money back into my local economy by supporting people who are generally good folks. I've avoided certain stores just because of the owners and other stores I frequent because their employees are knowledgeable and friendly to boot.

That being said my only explanation why I have firearms is as follows:

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Unregistered handguns?

reply to post by Dr Love


That is because:

We do not have gun "registry" in the US. Some cities and states run the numbers on the gun to determine if it is a stolen weapon or was used in a crime but that's about it.

It is unlawful for the government to record the serial number on the gun and associate that number with an owner. The reason for that is so the government under someone like Obama, Pelosi and Reid can't come knocking at the door and say give us X,Y ans Z guns, we know you have em! We still have 2nd ammendment rights in the US.

When you buy a gun from a dealer (FFL holder) he has to call in your SS# and other personal information to the Treasury Dept. Treasury checks to see if you are "on a list" ie. wanted for or committed a felony or gun crime.

BTW there are thousands of crimes a year prevented because someone with a gun produced the gun and stopped the bad guys. Usually there are no shots fired. Why aren't these incidents reported? Because the media is biased against guns and won't report the truth!

There are thousands of Brits and Aussies who want their guns back because they are sick and tired of being taken advantage of by criminals with guns!

What happens if the cops find you with a gun that has the serial number filed off?

Nothing. A lot of pistols never had ser. #s at manufacture. The question is only are you carrying your gun legally? Do you have a carry permit if required, etc. In my state (and many western states) citizens can carry a gun but to conceal it you have to have the carry permit.

[edit on 11/2/09 by plumranch]

I think it MAY have already been stated but licensed gun dealers are used for buying NEW guns.

I can buy guns off anyone, but you can't have NEW guns delivered without an FFL(license). Basically, I want a Vector Arms Uzi, well, I can buy one used (no background check) or if I want a new one I will have to have someone with an FFL call up the factory and order one as you can't ship guns from a factory to your door unless you have an FFL.

Of course their is a lot of suttle variations in state and federal law, but basically new gun dealers run you through a bground check and in some states a waiting period...BUT you don't have to register a gun in any state except maybe NY & California unless it is pre-1986 full auto.

That is a crude quick and rough guide for ya.

reply to post by purplemonkey


Why do you people in other countries care so much what's legal here in America?

You people whine and moan when we interfere with other countries, but you're always quick to tell us how to run our lives.

Stop it.