Are you prepared to dine upon your neighbors?

Great posts! I started this thread. I never thought of the magnetic shift and the possible influence of HAARP as possible causes. GM crops are highly suspect also, as someone stated.

Not all geographic areas are affected yet. But here's why I posted the thread. It's a glorious spring here in Tucson. We lie in the "Sonoran Desert". It is hardly a desert. It's more like a forest about 10 feet high. Lots of different kinds of plants and critters. Everything is blooming now, including the non-native shrubs in my yard. Trumpet vine, honeysuckle, orange and grapefruit trees and rosemary(bees LOVE rosemary).

Saturday I decided to go check the bees. (ALL our bees are african "killer bees", as far as I know... been so for the past 6 - 7 years. Somebody gets killed every year from the little bastards). I found NO BEES. No bees at all!! That's impossible. The citrus should be buzzing with them.

I checked morning and evening, Sat. Sun. Mon. Nothing. Not one bee!!! I still can't wrap my brain around it. My uncle in Pueblo Colorado said they had a colony in their church organ. Some keeper came and got them and "seemed pretty desparate to get them."

Tomorrow I shall find a bee keepers association and see what they say.

I suggest reading Linda Moulton Howe's Earthfile.com article, linked in the first post. Europe is greatly affected also, though not everywhere.

It wouldn't surprise to see some convergence of causes. But the composition of the chemtrails ranks as the strongest suspect. I know some don't believe in them, but just listen to this info. Go to Chemtrails911 www.chemtrails911.com... and click on the link to listen to Alex Jones talk to Jeff Rense. Rense has a lot of data on the composition of the nanomachines discovered in the aerosol... from work done by scientific labs and the Mayo Clinic, via Morgellon's disease.

His information is current and startling. He said that the brains of flies were found stuffed full of these little SELF REPLICATING nanomachines. Maybe the current test being performed on dead bees will tell us more.

My concern is that this issue will become quickly forgotten, as the Neo-cons probably would like.

One last thing. ATS deals a lot with theories, as is intended. (I love this site) But here is something that is factual and cannot be denied. It's like a crack in the wall of official denial. This should be exploited.

Someone on ATS signs with a quote from Napoleon, like, "Never interrupt an enemy while he is making a mistake." This issue has the possibility of activating the otherwise apathetic. When I realized that there appears to be NO BEES in may yard, well, it came as a great shock! Man, this could be true, big and bad.

So, help keep this thread alive for awhile.

B.

I really really really hate to say this but.......

ESDAD71 is correct, the sun is heating up and it is also giving off more of it's magnetic field, ( due to sun spots) which in turn is warming the earth AND weakening the earths magnetic field which is messing with the critters that use this field for navigation

www.n3kl.org...

www.dxlc.com...

if you look back over the last decade or so of data you will see a correlation to increased solar activity and both global warming and weakening magnetic field.

I didn't look to see if solar wind has also increased, but I suspect it to be so

Frogs are disappearing as well as bees and I think Both are related to the same source.............

Sol

Not Humankind.....

edit for name correction

[edit on 11-4-2007 by thedigirati]

[edit on 11-4-2007 by thedigirati]

Regardless of *why*, none of this bodes well for us.

long time lurker-- first post on ATS:
I'm a commercial beekeeper based in New Zealand, and as such, have been closely following the CCD happenings in US/Canada/Europe. We are wrapping up our season here (heading into winter) and there are no signs of similar phenomena happening in these parts. . . but we are watching closely for any irregularities.
The most baffling aspect of CCD is the complete disapearance (apprently dead bees are found in canada??). Working with bees, I'm constantly amazed at their navigation skills; if you move there hive entrance a few inches it throws them off -- returning bees congregate around the old entrance location-- eventually finding the new location, but they may be "confused" by the shift for a day or more. Moving a hive a couple of km or more (as we do when putting hive into orchards for pollination) seems to reset their internal nav. system and they come and go without problem. When foraging ,bees can range several kilometers from home. Clearly, something (magnetic anomalies, GM crops ,pesticides, cumulative immune problems, . . . .) is disorienting field bees (foragers) to the point of keeping them from returning home. It seems they ought to be finding dead bees somewhere-- yeah they're small, but we're talking tens of thousands per hive (maybe 30ish hives per locations) within a few km radius -- surely some should be found?? The no body-->no autopsy factor sure makes it difficult to get to a cause.

Dead/severly weakend Hives not getting robbed by neighborng hives is bizarre-- generally any unprotected honey creates a robbing frenzy in a yard of hives-- even a bit of dripped honey or some sticky gear on the back of the truck makes them go ape #$%^, especially if there is not a natural nectar flow on. this non -robbing aspect leads me towards something like Gm crop pollen or chemical residue from mite/disease treatment which would taint the hives contents. I would tend to lean away from the magnetic anomaly aspect since it is not a global thing (although it may soon be).

Frightening how little attn/concern this is getting from gen. public:

Simply put-- If you like to eat, you should be concerned.

What I find interesting is the statement:
Albert Einstein said, ” If honey bees become extinct,
human society will follow in four years.”
It is 2007 now.
If there is indeed an extinction of the bees like this, we can estimate most could be gone next year in 2008.
Four years later 2012.
Interesting in that some think the Ancient Mayans predicted some sort of apocalypse or Great World Change in 2012.
Also:
"NASA predicts that the Sun will also reverse its own magnetic poles during 2012 as result of reaching the end of current 11-year sunspot cycle. [9] Some believe this will amplify the effects of retarding magnetic field on earth, as harmful charged particles blasted away from the sun would more easily penetrate the earth's atmosphere."
Source:Wiki
Also of interest is that in the Alleged story of Montauk/Camp Hero,
It was claimed that the experiments in time travel there Would not let them see past 2012.
Who can say...Although it's easy to see The Earth has some real problems, which aren't getting any better.

I also noticed a lot less bees than should usually be the case here in Switzerland. Blooming bushes that should be swarming with live only have a few critters on them and only a very small part of them are bees.

I guess I'll check the survival forum a lot more often in the next time.

Originally posted by greatlakes
What does magnetic shift have to do with your statement? Here's another quote from the same story that you quoted from:

are you suggesting that disappearing bees and untouched honey stores are isolated phenomena?

i think not, poor health, abandoned hives and lack of takeovers together clearly indicate that a toxin or an infectiious disease is the culprit. my guess wouold be it's a matter of toxic accumulation or the result of toxin producing microorganisms, because an infectious disease normally would not deter different species.

Maybe what could be done/tested is putting one large (one pole per side) magnet under the hives entrance. If the hive is in the north, aim the magnets north, up through the bottom of the hive entrance and south for the south. Then try moving the hive a bit and see if they find it in the new location.

Originally posted by j_kalin
very nice idea and graphics; just one question...what is increasing the volume of the earth? is the mass increasing as well or is the inside just growing a big bubble that is due to pop...also, where did all the new water come from to fill the new oceans? this idea may prove to be true, but you have to explain all the inconvenient details to call it a theory...then you still have to prove it.

Thanks for the thumbs-up!

The new water question...Not new water, the theory goes that the land mass (one solid continuous land mass) on the small earth were all covered with shallow seas. This would explain the evidence of fish fossils found now all over the planet where seas are not known to have existed.

Originally posted by dwdwdw
long time lurker-- first post on ATS:
I'm a commercial beekeeper based in New Zealand, and as such, have been closely following the CCD happenings in US/Canada/Europe. We are wrapping up our season here (heading into winter) and there are no signs of similar phenomena happening in these parts. . . but we are watching closely for any irregularities.

First off, GRATS on your first post, welcome! Everyone welcomes your comments and ideas to ATS. Be careful thought the waters sometimes contain sharks

Magnetic fields and bees? I believe bees and MANY of this planets creatures are governed by the magnetic fields. Using the field for geo-navigation, as a internal clock, etc etc. AS far as bees, the construction of the hive itself is an amazing 'engineering' feat. Constructed of perfect hexagonal structures, each be in the construction phase builds on their own, without knowing what the other bees are doing. In some cases the honeycomb needs to 'round a corner' or other obstruction, the hexagonal cells stretch and modify to accommodate the change.

honeybees and Sunspots may be interacting in one of the most unwatched ballets since television was created. Metaphorically speaking of course:

Imagine an aquarium containing a fish. Imagine also that you are unable to see the aquarium directly and your knowledge about it and what it contains comes from two television cameras, one directed at the aquarium’s front and the other directed at its side. As you stare at the two television monitors, you might assume that the fish on each of the screens are separate entities. After all, because the cameras are set at different angles, each of the images will be slightly different. But as you continue to watch the two fishes, you will eventually become aware that there is a certain relationship between them. When one turns, the other also makes a slightly different but corresponding turn; when one faces the front, the other always faces toward the side. If you remain unaware of the full scope of the situation, you might even conclude that the fish must be instantaneously communicating with one another, but this is clearly not the case.1

If there are processes in this universe of which we are unaware of the full scope, perhaps the only way to observe them is using the multi-camera metaphor. In this ballet - which has the tragedy of the prospect of agricultural collapse, the triumph of the idea of biological interaction with quantum processes, and the drama of far away forces dancing within our presences - we can become part of the dance as we expertly shift our camera views like an experienced television producer. In the process, a mystery may be solved, one making many of us (and perhaps not enough of us) nervous lately.

Camera One: Honeybees

The first reports began in November of bees mysteriously disappearing. Not just one or two, but entire colonies of tens of thousands of bees at a time. As temperatures have warmed and it has become safe to open hives, the extent of losses is grave:
In Michigan, Terry Klein, vice president of the Michigan Beekeepers Association and a commercial beekeeper, said reports of huge losses are beginning to arrive.

“One beekeeper started with 1,500 hives and had only 500 colonies left,” Klein said. “Over three or four more weeks, he lost 70 percent of those.”2

Assuming a winter population of approximately 20,000 bees, this would leave losses for one beekeeper at 27 million bees! The losses have been widespread in North America, with some beekeepers loosing up to 80 percent of their hives. Over 400 reports have come in from at least 22 states so far. Given the extent of losses, the most puzzling thing is the lack of dead bees:

Although the bodies of dead bees often are littered around a hive, sometimes carried out of the hive by worker bees, no bee remains are typically found around colonies struck by the mystery ailment. Scientists assume these bees have flown away from the hive before dying.

27 million dead bees in a relatively small area should leave some physical evidence. Unless there is an extremely efficient physical process (like a phantom bee-eater) or a much wider geographical distribution of bee carcasses upon their demise, a very strange phenomenon is at work.
Curiously, it has been noted that something similar happened in North America approximately 50 years ago.

I’m a hundred miles behind myself
- Beck, Milk and Honey

Camera Two: Sunspots

Sunspots follow an approximate 11-year cycle, corresponding to increases in solar activity. This solar activity causes geomagnetic effects during the peaks, but effects on earth’s magnetic field also occur during the minimums. Using these observations, scientists have predicted that the next solar maximum, expected to peak in 2010, could be the most intense ever.
The measurement that allows the the prediction is called Inter-hour Variability. Combined with another observation on the sun, Physicist David Hathaway noticed a correlation that allowed prediction of solar activity 6-8 years later. In his observations, the last time something similar to the IHV measurements he sees today happened was about 50 years ago.

I feel it coming and I’ve got to get out of it’s way
- Nine Inch Nails, Sunspots

Watching The Dance

Aside from the fact that most children would use the same crayons to draw both sunspots and honeybees, how could they two be related?
Barbara Shipman, mathematician and daughter of a bee researcher, first noticed something peculiar about the dance bees use to describe where pollen sources are located to other bees. Observed over 40 years by Karl von Firsh, these movements seemed an overly complex way to convey information, especially in insect behavior. No one had yet made sense of the dance the bee scouts performed on returning to a hive, but one thing was clear. All of the dance was based on a triangulation of the hive, the food source, and the sun.
Shipman first studied bees because her father left the bee books in her room, and later studied them in her freshman year as a biochemistry major. It was not until she delved into mathematics that she penetrated the enigmatic mystery of the dance. She was studying flag manifolds, mathematical constructs used in projecting multi-dimensional phenomena into fewer dimensions when something from childhood became clear:

One day Shipman was busy projecting the six-dimensional residents of the flag manifold onto two dimensions. The particular technique she was using involved first making a two-dimensional outline of the six dimensions of the flag manifold. This is not as strange as it may sound. When you draw a circle, you are in effect making a two-dimensional outline of a three- dimensional sphere. As it turns out, if you make a two-dimensional outline of the six-dimensional flag manifold, you wind up with a hexagon. The bee’s honeycomb, of course, is also made up of hexagons, but that is purely coincidental. However, Shipman soon discovered a more explicit connection. She found a group of objects in the flag manifold that, when projected onto a two-dimensional hexagon, formed curves that reminded her of the bee’s recruitment dance. The more she explored the flag manifold, the more curves she found that precisely matched the ones in the recruitment dance. I wasn’t looking for a connection between bees and the flag manifold, she says. I was just doing my research. The curves were nothing special in themselves, except that the dance patterns kept emerging.5

Since then, researchers have discovered that things such as the polarization of the light of the sun and local variations of the earth’s magnetic field affect the components of the dance, suggesting bees have sensitivities that would require re-writing our biology, physics and cosmology texts from scratch:

There is some research to support the view that bees are sensitive to effects that occur only on a quantum-mechanical scale. One study exposed bees to short bursts of a high-intensity magnetic field and concluded that the bees’ response could be better explained as a sensitivity to an effect known as nuclear magnetic resonance, or nmr, an acronym commonly associated with a medical imaging technique. nmr occurs when an electromagnetic wave impinges on the nuclei of atoms and flips their orientation. nmr is considered a quantum mechanical effect because it takes place only if each atom absorbs a particular size packet, or quantum, of electromagnetic energy.

If this were not enough, the results imply that bees can perceive quarks, thereby interacting with the quantum world without disturbing it in the ways both observed and predicted by quantum theory. And this perception would have to extend to the perception of quarks not as coherent structures, but as fields. In other words, bees may be able to perceive the unobserved quantum fields of zero-point energy, the much-debated property from which all of the phenomenal world may emerge in the eternal quantum moment.

The Stage: Sun and Earth

Other than the coincidence that a similar disappearance of bees and the precursor to a strong sunspot cycle both occurred at the same time, just as is happening now, how could such revelations be related to the solar cycle?
Science is still at a loss to explain the power of the sun’s magnetic field, or the Solar Dynamo. A set of observations seem all to relate, yet the observations cannot be explained individually or together:

A successful model for the solar dynamo must explain several observations: 1) the 11-year period of the sunspot cycle, 2) the equator-ward drift of the active latitude as seen in the butterfly diagram, 3) Hale’s polarity law and the 22-year magnetic cycle, 4) Joy’s law for the observed tilt of sunspot groups and, 5) the reversal of the polar magnetic fields near the time of cycle maximum as seen in the magnetic butterfly diagram.7

Taking a cue from the bees, we can look at spin as a common component. Spin is a property of quantum ‘particles’ that can be manipulated, and is a fundamental component of both NMR and quantum computers. Spin is complex conceptually, especially given the fact that the most simple description of the spin of Fermions (the ‘particles’ that make up matter as we know it) is 1/2. This means that if you could hold one of these ‘particles’ and mark a spot on it with a Sharpie, you would have to turn it 720 degrees around in your hand to see the mark once again. Quarks, the ‘particle’ bees may interact with, also have spin 1/2.
The concept of spherical harmonics is used to visualize the effects of spin. Using spherical harmonics, the sun can also be visualized as a six-dimensional body with three rotational components. In another simple visualization, a two-dimensional flatlander would have a great deal of difficulty explaining an eight-ball intersecting her space while rotating both horizontally and vertically. It would seem to her that the disc she observed (the portion of the eight-ball intersecting with her plane) had a spin of 1/2. If she then used spherical harmonics to describe the object, she would be able to make some mathematical predictions about its structure and behavior, even without having an ability to visualize or perceive the third dimension directly.
In our visualization of the sun, such a correlation of observable phenomena should be striking if indeed the sun is a six dimensional structure:

If the reason is a global cause such as the sun or magnetic fields then all bees everywhere would be affected. If the affect is global but with unaffected regions then it is more then likely a human cause related to trade. This opens the possibility of feeding habits, pesticides etc. However with these causes it would be very easy to find out the culprit e.g. are all organic bee farms relatively unaffected?

Mobile phones......hmmmm All that very low level microwave radiation that has sprung up quite considerably worldwide. It is also patchy so are areas where the mobile phone coverage is poor also the ones with unaffected bee populations ?

Originally posted by SIRR1

I hope someone figures out what going on. Good post!

Not sure it is an accurate figure but I saw a show on yesterday where some talking head said that he estimated that if we had to take over the process of pollination ourselves that it would cost 100 billion dollars to do that.

Well that may seem like a lot, but in the context of the world economy it's not a huge amount, though it's not trivial. And, it's probably a vast underestimation.

I don't know how we would actually do pollination by hand, but I suppose it's not impossible.

Is this another way that Gaia is 'shrugging off' the "infestation" that is mankind? Heh; remains to be seen.

It is definately possible to pollinate by hand and actually quite simple.....if You're only doing it for Your own purpose on a small scale. It would be almost impossible to due it on a global scale-enough to feed billions anyway. Saffron is harvested by hand is the most expensive spice in the world. Can You imagine the price of food crops if hand pollinated? Our concern should focus on doing everything We can to ensure that the bees continue doing what they're suppposed to do, ensure preservasion.

Peace. K*

Here's a viewpoint from the NorthEast US, Pennsylvania to be exact. A limited viewpoint, I'll admit, as I'm not a beekeeper or anything. I live on 1.7 acres of land in the "burbs" of a small town. Our bee population was unaffected last year, I think it actually increased a bit. This year, it's still quite cold (low 40s today) although we had a nice heatwave a few weeks back...and I've already seen bees flying around. We seem unaffected here.

The thing that really jumps out at me in this thread...is that there's been a lot of scientific evidence presented that this may be an issue with magnetic field. And, it seems quite possible. Yet, as I knew would happen, it only took 25-30 posts before some idiot had to come in here and spout rhetoric about how this is the "neo-cons" fault. It's sad. If you can explain how the neo-cons can flip the magnetic field, I'd listen intently. Until that happens, how about keeping your ignorant hate to youself and focusing on the problem.

Originally posted by BlueTriangle
The thing that really jumps out at me in this thread...is that there's been a lot of scientific evidence presented that this may be an issue with magnetic field. And, it seems quite possible. Yet, as I knew would happen, it only took 25-30 posts before some idiot had to come in here and spout rhetoric about how this is the "neo-cons" fault. It's sad. If you can explain how the neo-cons can flip the magnetic field, I'd listen intently. Until that happens, how about keeping your ignorant hate to youself and focusing on the problem.

I agree stay on the topic and do not try to derail the thread.

I can tell all of you I have a small hobby farm of 50 acres in Michigan with 1000 fruit trees. And I also have taken many courses and have certifications in bee keeping. It is very important to my trees when they bloom to have pollinators, my friends the bees. I have 15 hives which is a bit overkill, but again bees have fascinated me for 35 years+.

When a hive dies, swarms or get a disease, I have to replace those bees and the queen. Now here is the kicker the past 2 years all of my hives have just disappeared, well the bees, but they have left the hives loaded with honey, which is also very strange. Why? well bees if they swarm and leave a hive will gorge themselves with most of the honey in the hive and take it to a new location. Scout bees are the one that look for a new location, before a swarm, so this is defying all bee logic. And if the bees get sick I will usually find thousands of dead bees inside and outside the hive, but not this time.

This year I ordered new bees from down South and the same place I have been ordering for 20+ years. The Bee farm ships 5 to 6 pounds of workers bee's and a queen, separated by her own cage internally from the workers but able to communicate with them. Now here is the 2nd kicker The Bee Farm told me they can only ship 3 pounds of workers and a queen, due to the shortage and the price is much higher.

I have called on some fellow beekeeper friends and fellow hobbyist's in regards to what is going on and they are saying the same thing, the bee's seem to be getting lost and not able to find their hives.

What is doing it? Know one seems to really know.

If anyone has any bee questions I will be happy to answer them.



[edit on 11-4-2007 by Realtruth]

Although I have no opinion, nor information, on the bee crisis I think it is worth mentioning that the article contains a falsehood in that Einstein never made any statement about bees.

From: message.snopes.com...

There's nary an entry in The New Quotable Einstein that mentions the word "bees." The closet match is a 1922 statement that referenced beetles:

"When a blind beetle crawls over the surface of a curved branch, it doesn't notice that the track it has covered is indeed curved. I was lucky enough to notice what the beetle didn't notice."

- snopes

Pokey Oats

It seems that it would be logical that if hives are emptying out with no corpses, then some predator must be consuming them. Have we had an introduction of any new species in the past few years that may be preying on our friend the honey bee?

I remember when the Frogs became greatly reduced in numbers. It used to be anoying at times to hear them. Now it is like hearing music that I havn't heard much of lately, but really like listening to.

The number of times being stung as a youngster, is what made me respect Bees. It would be a sad world without them.

Things are no longer in our hands.

We have failed miserably, thanks to denial mixed with hidden agendas.

There will be a time in the near future, where all of the reasons for failure will be replayed for people to see.

What are you doing to make things right?

What have you done to help cause these problems?

It is all there, recorded, waiting to be replayed.

nano pesticides are turning the bees into super bees. They are smarter and faster than normal bees, however, they hate! honey and pollinating. They kill and eat the other bees which is why no other bees are found.
I know...its horrible.