"Illegal Aliens" are people too

Originally posted by Doc Velocity

Originally posted by souls
Honestly, your ignorance, I can smell it from all the way here... The ignorance is prevalent in here...

And yet I don't see you contributing to our enlightment. Come on, disprove the rising crime rate due to illegal aliens, disprove the cost to America of hosting these illegal parasites. Face it, it's your own ignorance on this subject that is convoluting the issue.

— Doc Velocity

I don't need to disprove anything. I really don't care for your enlightenment. There is no point in "providing links" and getting in big arguments with you. Your minds are made up. My point is that you guys complain, complain, and put an entire race down by making generalizations, and applying numbers to your own random agendas. Like I told you before. Why don't you just get rid of these"illegal parasite" by becoming something. Get off ATS and do some thing, I don't like to repeat myself. Then when you are done getting rid of these "illegal parasites", you can start harboring the parasites who are not illegal.

Originally posted by souls
There is no point in "providing links" and getting in big arguments with you.

Actually, that is the entire point of this site. To discuss the subject and to provide information and back up.

The links I provided show ABSOLUTELY the crimes committed by massive numbers of illegals. They show the problems with them stealing health care and overcrowding and overburdening schools. They show the burden on the middle class American tax payer and the entire system in general.

My point is that you guys complain, complain, and put an entire race down

BULL. 'Putting down an entire race' would mean that we would be sitting here saying that no one from the country of Mexico can ever come to this country - legal or not - because they are _________ (fill in a negative stereotype comment).

Your statement is BULL. For the record - my husband is part Mexican and his grandparent came here LEGALLY. My (adopted) daughter is Bolivian and she came here LEGALLY. So get off the race crap.

your own random agendas.

.... glass houses, soul. Glass houses. Sounds like YOU are the one with an agenda here. Those against people breaking the law and entering this country illegally are following the law of the land. You are calling for people not to. What's YOUR agenda???

Originally posted by FlyersFan

.... glass houses, soul. Glass houses. Sounds like YOU are the one with an agenda here. Those against people breaking the law and entering this country illegally are following the law of the land. You are calling for people not to. What's YOUR agenda???

Like I said, it is pointless. And you already know my agenda, so why do you get the idea that I'm calling for people to break the law? Like I said, pointless.

Certain people are angry that
the US might protect its own
borders, might make it harder
to sneak into this country and,
once here, to stay indefinitely.


Let me see if I correctly understand
the thinking behind these protests.
Let's say I break into your house.
Let's say that when you discover
me in your house, you insist that I leave.

But I say, "I've made all
the beds and washed the
dishes and did the laundry
and swept the floors. I've
done all the things you don't
like to do. I'm hard-working
and honest
(except for when I broke into your house).

According to the protesters:


You are Required to let me stay in your house
You are Required to add me to your family's insurance plan
You are Required to Educate my kids
You are Required to Provide other benefits to me & to my family



(my husband will do all of your yard work because
he is also hard-working and honest, except for that
breaking in part).

If you try to call the police or force me out,
I will call my friends who will picket your
house carrying signs that proclaim my
RIGHT to be there.


It's only fair, after all, because you have
a nicer house than I do, and I'm just
trying to better myself. I'm a hard-working
and honest, person, except for well,
you know, I did break into your house


And what a deal it is for me!!!

I live in your house, contributing only a
fraction of the cost of my keep, and
there is nothing you can do about it
without being accused of cold,
uncaring, selfish, prejudiced, and
bigoted behavior.

Oh yeah, I DEMAND that you to learn
MY LANGUAGE!!! so you can
communicate with me.

Why can't people see how ridiculous
this is?! Only in America .

mod note: please do not copy and paste outside material without ex tags or attribution, and please add content of your own as well.

[edit on 9-4-2007 by The Vagabond]

Just a reminder, the topic is illegal immigrants, not eachother.

Statements like:
"I oppose illegal immigration because you are a socialist"
or
"I sympathize with illegal immigrants because you are a capitalist pig"
are non-sequiturs- the logic has nothing to do with illegal immigration, it has to do with eachother, and therefore it is off-topic.

I'm confident that we can all disagree and even hate eachothers guts in a civil, courteous manner without labeling eachother or pointing out eachother's idiocy.

ENGLISH.. SPEAK IT!

Thats what really gets to me. If your in the country then at the very least, learn the language.

In regards to speaking English when coming to this country to live... we had a very good discussion at this thread -
www.abovepolitics.com...

The end result - immigrants are required to learn a certain amount of English before coming to this country. It's good for the country and it's good for them. ILLEGALS skirt this requirement.

Originally posted by semperfoo
ENGLISH.. SPEAK IT!

Thats what really gets to me. If your in the country then at the very least, learn the language.

Would you be ok if you moved to Mexico and were forced to speak their language? I agree with you, but think about that for a while.

Illegal Aliens:
This is what I know:
Yes they are human and people. And yes they are here to get a better job, sending billions, with a B back to their home countries to their families to help improve their standard of living. And they did not come into the country by legal means. As many people have pointed out the fees for such are high. But the flip side of the story is that INS, unlike any other government organization, does not recieve a budget approved from by the congress and has to use all fees that they get to do their job.
Now here is something I have been looking at and consider this: Is slavery accpetable in the US or anywhere in the world these days? Yet you would state, we should not send illegale immigrants back home, but let them remain, to what end? I say it is a form of legalized slavery. They are paid less than any other worker in the US, do not have any legal rights and can be abused by their employers. If they complain, they lose their work. It is getting harder for them to get any decent housing and at the same time, what incentives do they have to want to remain in the country. Now I do sympathise with them, as I am decendant of immigrants to this country, but at the same time, I do not see where waving their countries flag and demanding rights will gather any sympathy. Their refusal to join this country and there are ways to become a member of this country is tough at times but there. Nor is it correct for a pregnant woman to come to this country to give birth and then demand to stay as a citizen as her baby was born here. Immigration has to be a 2 way street.
Now many state sending them all back is just not feasible, but let me ask you this, if it did happen what do you think would happen? Congress and the country would have to take immediate action to rectify such.
I do support legal immigration and those who take those steps and work hard at becoming a citizen, should be given our full support. But if they do not, and break the laws of the country, they need to be sent back.
Just my thoughts.

Originally posted by galm 1
Would you be ok if you moved to Mexico and were forced to speak their language? I agree with you, but think about that for a while.

I grew up in South Texas, I've traveled pretty extensively around Mexico, and while I was raised understanding and speaking Border Mexican — which is just enough Español to order a beer, get a hotel room, or buy your way out of jail — I know that the many dialects down there make it difficult for native Mexicans themselves to travel very far without meeting a communications barrier.

So, if I moved down there and decided to live like a king for the rest of my life on a few hundred thousand American dollars (as many have), I'd be interested to know which version of Mexican Español they wanted me to speak — inasmuch as the Mexican bureaucrats themselves can't even speak all of the dialects.

But, seriously, if the Mexican government demanded that I first "speak their language," I'd take an envelope, stuff a hundred dollar bill in it and send it back to them. A week later I'd receive official Mexican federal papers, all signed and approved by the proper authorities, and an official notice: WELCOME NEW CITIZEN! If you think I'm joking, you just don't know anything about Mexico.

The one language that talks loudest in Mexico is money...particularly American Dollars. I'm not ashamed to say that I've paid-off (read bribed) dozens of Federales (the federal police of Mexico), who will consistently nod and smile and turn their backs on any sort of crime for a measly $20 bill.

Not saying that I've perpetrated any heinous crimes, but I've been publicly intoxicated in Mexico and bought my way out of it on the spot, I've paid off Federales to look the other way and not inspect my car, I've bribed Federales to join our crazy-ass tequila parties in hotel swimming pools all night, and I've even bribed the Feds to detain somebody else because I didn't like the look of him.

Now, that is weilding power in anybody's book — not based upon fluency of the tongue, but only upon the depth of the pocket. Can you imagine trying to bribe American federal authorities in a similar manner? Not just no but HELL no.

In Mexico, they don't give a rat's ass which language you speeak, because money is power — which is why these millions of illegals are streaming across our borders and funneling the cash back to Mexico. It's not just about José feeding his poor wife and the kids back home, okay? It's about acquiring the power to buy off and bribe the Mexican authorities.

In short, the illegal alien crisis in America is further corrupting the Mexican government.

— Doc Velocity

Some of you may find THIS to be good reading and food for thought.

Just my opinion.
I think we should round up all the people here illegally and force them to serve a tour in Iraq.That or they can go back to where they came from.If you serve and live through it you'll be given citizenship.

And as for opinions that the country would be in ruin if we sent them back to Mexico..Easy way to solve that.Send those here illegally back and give citizenship to the ones trying to do it the right way.


I'm sorry but working here paying no taxes or putting anything back into your community sending your pay back to Mexico instead of putting it back into the economy is what will ruin this country..not deporting those here against the law.

These people are not taxed on their income but American citizens are.

Those that break the law flee back to Mexico to avoid prosecution.

They are bankrupting hospitals and health clinics by not paying their bills.And aren't being made to because there's no way of tracking them down to force them to through the courts.

They refuse to learn English or our customs.

When somebody brings up the whole illegal immigration thing these people have the nerve to protest on our streets?What are they protesting?That yes we're here against the law but we don't like that you want to do something about it?Why is it that the cops have all those illegals right there in one spot but don't arrest any of them?

If you feel your country is that bad that you have to come here illegally do something about your country instead of running here! OUR FOREFATHERS DID!!

I need to stop here or I might end up banned for the things I'll say if I continue.

Simon


edited for spelling.


[edit on 11-4-2007 by Simon_Boudreaux]

Originally posted by Justin Oldham
Some of you may find THIS to be good reading and food for thought.

I've never endorsed interring illegal aliens. That notion shouldn't even be on the table. We need to deport their asses and build a mile-high, 3000 mile long, electrified border barrier with heavy military presence to prevent their return.

— Doc Velocity

[edit on 4/11/2007 by Doc Velocity]

You guys do realise that yes, they do pay illegals less, however it is also destroying working class wages for Americans. Please read below.

This is in part from a post I made a few years ago...but is still just as valid.

[qoute] What is being allowed to happen is a travesty and if not pulled within check NOW will be the undoing of America. An invasion from within if you will.

They are bankrupting America. Virtually every tax payer funded program has and or will be bankrupt..ie. hospitals, prisons school...... and on and on.
They like to come here and have an "anchor baby" each baby costs the American taxpayer $8,000, then each child they have costs the American taxpayer $7,000 per child a year. I won't even go into the prisons wich cost about $47,000 a year to keep behind bars. Btw, Americans paying these bills is a violation of the 14th amendment (don't believe me - look it up). We really have a Leave no Mexican behind act as they have MORE rights than we do.

Soon we will be in a 3rd world quagmire with over population like China because they don't use birth control and slowly the entire family makes it out here. Right now there is a very liberal estimate of illegals at 30 million. If the rate of growth continues by 2030 we could have an estimated 200-600 million population. Where will the water come from? Where will the land come from? Where will the money to pay for the roads to be made and repaired? Most of them do not pay taxes.

They are bringing in 3rd world diseases that we haven't seen since the 1960's such as leprosy also known as Hansen's disease, hepatitis and tuberculosis. Is your child in public school? He or she may be sitting next to one of these infected clinics. In fact, the east coast now has 11 clinics for these diseases open. A lot of the illegals work in restaurants and fast food. But if they have these diseases or get sick they don't seek treatment because they don't want to get caught.

They are destroying the middle class. A factory worker used to enjoy a working wage that was $16-18 per hour and benefits. Now because of cheap illegal alien labor they make between $6-8 an hour with no benefits.

I could go on and on but I won't.

How can we fix it?

Have all the illegals deported back to Mexico
Put a 10 year moratorium on LEGAL IMMIGRATION here.
Make English the official language - many of them are illiterate in both languages
Go to their countries now and give them birth control and food
Surround our boarders, - its not only Mexicans getting in.

In 1965 the USA would only allow 170,000 immigrants per year. Which worked out well because that is about how many left a year. Now its millions!!!!!!!!

America is being invaded right under our nose. The government knows but does nothing about it. In fact, Colorado's governor Bill Owens has a hand out telling them how to get free medical treatment and how to get jobs. It's all about votes baby!

Every American should be as outraged as I am. There is something you can do about it go here www.alipac.us... Write the White House, write your congress person, but for God's sake do something NOW! [qoute]

I agree. Somthing needs to be done. It seems this matter will be resolved only on the local and state levels. Illegal aliens are just that, illegal. I dont blame them for coming here. if I was in their position I cant say I wouldnt be doing the same thing. But I do blame us for doing nothing to stop the flow of illegals. We will need the population to sustain the US economy in the future. With the baby boomers retiring and all. But like has been said by many here, its unsustainable right now. these ppl are draining our resources which should be in place for legal citizens and legal citizens only.

As for learning the language. It sure as hell would help their cause if you ask me. It would defiantly be a step in the right direction for these ppl to learn the language of their host country. These ppl dont care about america or its values, history and culture. Thats one reason why I have a problem with them. They just want to come here, make money, and send it home. They really dont contribute much to our society. I think the cons far outweigh the pros. Especially if you look a bit further into the future. Mexico doesnt care because there economy cant sustain the poor so they give them pamphlets to cross the border to america illegally. Also as has been said already. Remittances are the second largest income for mexico. I read an article a while back that actually says that these remittances are expected to be mexicos #1 source of income in the not so distant future.

Another point that needs to be stricken. All governments have corruption in them in one form or way. To think otherwise is to be naive. So i wouldnt focus primarily on the states in regards to that..



[edit on 093030p://1304pm by semperfoo]

I've been debating whether or not to post on this topic for some time.

Here's my two cents on the issue.

If someone walked into your house, made themselves at home on your couch and helped you do household chores - and after a while, they outstayed their welcome and you asked them nicely to get their own place.

But imagine if they had 3 kids while staying in your home, and then stated - "Well, you can kick me out of your home, but my children were born here, so they have every legal right to stay."

Wouldn't you feel a little used and offended?

I've know many nice migrant workers, and very nice people who actually respected this country enough to follow the proper guidelines for citizenship, but the situation is getting out of hand in this country for the second scenario presented.

Many illegals come here and bring with them no intent to start a new life outside of simply moving to a new area and going about the motions of the same lifestyle of the places they left.

I'm not against multi-culturalism, but it's hard for me to sit back and watch the people who have worked for generations to create the America we know today have their hard work and efforts rewarded by a bunch of noncommittal immigrants who have no respect, understanding or comprehension of the American way.

If you wish to take advantage of the American System, you owe society the courtesy of playing by the established rules.

Otherwise, if we continue to allow "the poor, downtrodden victims of other countries" to come here without precendence or due process, we are going to lose the quality of life we have worked so hard to establish for ourselves.

I could go on and on, but I'd only repeat some of the sentiments already echoed earlier on in this thread.



[edit on 11-4-2007 by GENERAL EYES]