US Judge Rules Constitution Does not Gurantee Travel within States

Couldn't the judge have just left it at this:

The judge also found that the Dickersons missed the deadline for certification as a class-action suit.

NO the abysmal lack of compassion has to be justified with yet another restriction on personal liberty.

There's a darker cloud than Katrina on the horizon.

Iowa (where I live) just raised its cigarette tax by $1.31 per pack......so, I now go to Missouri where they only have like a 23 cent per pack tax. Thankyou Chet Culver, you wonderful Democrat you! Anyway, what are they going to do? As long as I'm not turning around and selling the cigs I get from Missouri within Iowa, they can kiss my upper rear leg region.
I know....its only vaguely related, but it helps illustrate the point that Judges are worthless.....ok, VAGUELY

Originally posted by Zaphod58


But just for those too lazy to read, or too lazy to go back a page, here it is again.

Wrong I did read it.
I was asking for more if you had them that is why I used the plural fom of link DUH

If the police were only blocking people on foot who clearly were idiots that had no means to survive after crossing the bridge, then the police were correct in their action.

If they were blocking people in cars and people loaded up with supplies who were more than capable of travelling to an appropriate destination or taking care of themselves, then there's something to talk about.

A dangerous precedent, regardless.

Originally posted by clearwater
Couldn't the judge have just left it at this:

The judge also found that the Dickersons missed the deadline for certification as a class-action suit.

NO the abysmal lack of compassion has to be justified with yet another restriction on personal liberty.

There's a darker cloud than Katrina on the horizon.

No, she couldn't have left it at that. I have worked for a judge and drafted judicial opinions; the point when you write an opinion, especially in the case of dismissal, is to cover all of your bases.

And I don't understand how this is a restriction on personal liberty given the circumstances in this case. It makes no sense to let people into your town when there is a clear concern for public safety because of the largest Hurricane to hit in the last 20 years.

Further, why is this a lack of compassion? Aren't we worried also about the people in the town who might suffer from an influx of people? This needs to go both ways.

Originally posted by apc
If the police were only blocking people on foot who clearly were idiots that had no means to survive after crossing the bridge, then the police were correct in their action.

There seem to be different opinions on what happened some claim the area was clear and they could have traveled right thru Gretna because the road was not blocked, so if that is true the cops col early had to be in the wrong. Then we also have claims that the road was blocked and they could not get thru but no one has yet to prove what they alleged is true and that goes for both sides of the argument. I have looked but as yet I have not found one that claims the roads out of Gretna were blocked all we have are claims made by the police that state there were no supplies, well I do not think that is the real heart of the matter if the individuals had only planed to transit right thru town supplies were really not the issue although the police used it as one.

Originally posted by apc
If the police were only blocking people on foot who clearly were idiots that had no means to survive after crossing the bridge, then the police were correct in their action.

If they were blocking people in cars and people loaded up with supplies who were more than capable of travelling to an appropriate destination or taking care of themselves, then there's something to talk about.

A dangerous precedent, regardless.

There is so much information missing from the article that it's impossible to make firm opinion of the matter. Were these people on foot or in vehicles? Were the roads ahead completely clear?

To me it seems moot that there were no resources where they were headed. As long as the road was clear and open I think they've should've been allowed to travel. I mean they were coming from a location where there was no adequate shelter and food so what does it really matter if they are heading to a place where there is no adequate shelter and food??

I think personally I would've refused to turn around and just stayed on the bridge (although it was very hot and bridges are about the worst place to be in the heat). What are they going to do, arrest me? Please do and then I'll be in your jail with shelter and food. It shouldn't be too hard to beat a lawful order charge when you can show pictures./videos of N.O. and say you felt the order was placing your life in danger and therfore not a lawful order.

Originally posted by SmallMindsBigIdeas
There is so much information missing from the article that it's impossible to make firm opinion of the matter. Were these people on foot or in vehicles? Were the roads ahead completely clear?

I can guarantee you that the roads were clear. I can try to see if I can find anyone with pictures, but I don't know if I will be able to. They were only blocking people on foot, I zoomed right through at a beautiful 50mph. There was nothing blocking the way. Let's also take into account that while the Wal-Mart was indeed looted, businesses like this (including Wal Mart) were allowed to be opened up by Sherriff Harry Lee in Jefferson Parish (the parish in which Gretna is contained) to help people. This was not a luxury afforded, or at least "allowed" in New Orleans. People in New Orleans looted, people everywhere else "survived by finding food".

What are they going to do, arrest me? Please do and then I'll be in your jail with shelter and food. It shouldn't be too hard to beat a lawful order charge when you can show pictures./videos of N.O. and say you felt the order was placing your life in danger and therfore not a lawful order.

The jail was flooded in New Orleans, they wouldn't have taken you there. But that's another constitutional debate in itself with that place.

Bottom line, I maintain that a much preferable, safer, and organized post-storm evacuation could have been carried out much more easily had it been done even off the bridge. I am going to see what I can scrounge up proofwise, but I know for myself, I did not take pictures at that moment. It wasn't something I needed to remember anymore than I already do.

[edit on 4/6/07 by niteboy82]

Originally posted by SmallMindsBigIdeas
To me it seems moot that there were no resources where they were headed. As long as the road was clear and open I think they've should've been allowed to travel. I mean they were coming from a location where there was no adequate shelter and food so what does it really matter if they are heading to a place where there is no adequate shelter and food??

Well, suicide is illegal. While I may not personally agree with stopping people from wandering off into nowhere just to end up dead on the side of the road, the police were legally justified in their actions.

I keep getting this picture in my head of a swarm of ants moving over a carcass, picking it clean and leaving nothing but bones as they move on. Maybe that is another motivation for the police actions?

[edit on 6-4-2007 by apc]

Originally posted by apc
Well, suicide is illegal. While I may not personally agree with stopping people from wandering off into nowhere just to end up dead on the side of the road, the police were legally justified in their actions.

Compared to staying where they were? Did you not see the video of when the food started coming into the city, and the obviousness that they didn't even have a clue that people were at the Convention Center? People were dying all around them, dead people in wheelchairs were being covered and left in the heat. No hope in sight, what would you have done? It was suicide for many to stay, but I don't see criminal charges coming up, posthumously.

Yeah I'm not saying it was morally right. Never know how many boyscouts were among them. But morals and the law don't always agree.

I remeember reading everything I could find on this event when it happened. I remember the older black man getting shot and Ithink he was mentally retarded as well? And it was definitely the Connection bridge, not Danziger. What i read coincided exactly with what Niteboy says.

It was later discovered that the mayor or sheriff or some such of Gretna had said he didn't want any Blacks in his town. They could have housed these poor refugees in the high school gym, etc. .

People were on foot because they had no cars to evacuate in and they were basically fighting for their lives. I rememeber meeting a guy who went through Katrina and he said the only reason he was able to get out with his family, was because he had a gun.

I'm glad you made it Ok, Niteboy. And thank you for sharing your memories, it must be painful to think about.

Originally posted by forestlady
I remeember reading everything I could find on this event when it happened.

Thanks forest for your recollection of what happened. I will give Mr no one another day to prove his side and if we hear nothing then it would appear that niteboys version is correct.

It should be noted, I recall almost the same as you, although I missed the handicap part.

[edit on 4/6/2007 by shots]

Well, I tend to go with the eye witness account. There was so much turmoil and confusion, that the papers could easily have gotten an incorrect idea of what happened; newspapers in fact rarely get all their facts straight. If you've ever been interviewed by a newspaper writer, you will find this to be true. Niteboy was there and saw everything with his own two eyes.
There was an eye witness account by 2 people who were in NO for training as emergency responders. They were horrified at what was happening on the bridge. I will try to find their statement on Google.

Here is an excerpt from an ABC "Nightline" interview with Ray Nagin:
****
People got restless and there was overcrowding at the convention center. They asked us, "Is there any other option?" We said, "Well, if you want to walk, across the Crescent City Connection, there's buses coming, you may be able to find some relief." They started marching. At the parish line, the county line of Gretna, they were met with attack dogs and police officers with machine guns saying "You have to turn back…"

DONOVAN: Go back.

NAGIN: "…because a looter got in a shopping center and set it afire and we want to protect the property in this area."

DONOVAN: And what does that say to you?

NAGIN: That says that's a bunch of bull. That says that people value their property, and were protecting property, over human life.

And look, I was not suggesting, or suggesting to the people that they walk down into those neighborhoods. All I wanted them to do and I suggested: walk on the Interstate. And we called FEMA and we said "Drop them water and supplies as they march." They weren't gonna go into those doggone neighborhoods. They weren't going to impact those neighborhoods. Those people were looking to escape, and they cut off the last available exit route out of New Orleans.

DONOVAN: And was that race? Was that class?

NAGIN: I don't know. You're going to have to go ask them. But those questions need to be answered. And I'm pissed about it. And I don't know how many people died as a result of that.
*****
HEre's the URL from the article: People got restless and there was overcrowding at the convention center. They asked us, "Is there any other option?" We said, "Well, if you want to walk, across the Crescent City Connection, there's buses coming, you may be able to find some relief." They started marching. At the parish line, the county line of Gretna, they were met with attack dogs and police officers with machine guns saying "You have to turn back…"

DONOVAN: Go back.

NAGIN: "…because a looter got in a shopping center and set it afire and we want to protect the property in this area."

DONOVAN: And what does that say to you?

NAGIN: That says that's a bunch of bull. That says that people value their property, and were protecting property, over human life.

And look, I was not suggesting, or suggesting to the people that they walk down into those neighborhoods. All I wanted them to do and I suggested: walk on the Interstate. And we called FEMA and we said "Drop them water and supplies as they march." They weren't gonna go into those doggone neighborhoods. They weren't going to impact those neighborhoods. Those people were looking to escape, and they cut off the last available exit route out of New Orleans.

DONOVAN: And was that race? Was that class?

NAGIN: I don't know. You're going to have to go ask them. But those questions need to be answered. And I'm pissed about it. And I don't know how many people died as a result of that.

People got restless and there was overcrowding at the convention center. They asked us, "Is there any other option?" We said, "Well, if you want to walk, across the Crescent City Connection, there's buses coming, you may be able to find some relief." They started marching. At the parish line, the county line of Gretna, they were met with attack dogs and police officers with machine guns saying "You have to turn back…"

DONOVAN: Go back.

NAGIN: "…because a looter got in a shopping center and set it afire and we want to protect the property in this area."

DONOVAN: And what does that say to you?

NAGIN: That says that's a bunch of bull. That says that people value their property, and were protecting property, over human life.

And look, I was not suggesting, or suggesting to the people that they walk down into those neighborhoods. All I wanted them to do and I suggested: walk on the Interstate. And we called FEMA and we said "Drop them water and supplies as they march." They weren't gonna go into those doggone neighborhoods. They weren't going to impact those neighborhoods. Those people were looking to escape, and they cut off the last available exit route out of New Orleans.

DONOVAN: And was that race? Was that class?

NAGIN: I don't know. You're going to have to go ask them. But those questions need to be answered. And I'm pissed about it. And I don't know how many people died as a result of that.
***
katrinacoverage.com/tag/crescent-city/connection/
Scroll to the very last story, Ray Nagin "We told people the cRescent City Conection was open." Click on the link. There is tons of Katrina information at that website.

Here's the URL for the account by the two EMT's:
sfsocialists.livejournal.com/3687.html

Here is an excerpt from the 2 EMT's account (from the article written by them and available at the last link in my post above):

"We questioned why we couldn't cross the bridge anyway, especially as there
was little traffic on the 6-lane highway. They responded that the West Bank was
not going to become New Orleans and there would be no Superdomes in their
City. These were code words for if you are poor and black, you are not crossing
the Mississippi River and you were not getting out of New Orleans."

Thanks I got the jist but why the repeated use of some portions? Some comments were repeated three times. Was that perhaps do to cut and paste errors

It really makes no difference anyhow because if the road as clear as indicated it was wrong to stop them