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Royal Marine Captain: We Gathered Intelligence
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Royal Marine Captain: \"We Gathered Intelligence\"
news.sky.com
(visit the link for the full news article)
The captain in charge of the 15 marines detained in Iran has admitted they were gathering intelligence on the Iranians.
Sky News went on patrol with Captain Chris Air and his team in Iraqi waters close to the area where they were arrested - just five days before the crisis began.
We withheld the interview until now so it would not jeopardise their safety.
And today, former Iranian diplomat Dr Mehrdad Khonsari said if the Iranians had known about it, they would have used it to "justify
Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
Iran to Release 15 UK Sailors/Marines
USS Nimitz Forced Iran's Decision
[edit on 5-4-2007 by Zep Tepi]
This is a Sky News exclusive and they are making quite a deal out if this. Personally, after listening to Captain Air's comments in the interview,
Idon't see what the fuss is all about.
If they didn't gather intel during the course of their work that would be plain stupid, IMHO.
news.sky.com
(visit the link for the full news article)
If they didn't gather intel during the course of their work that would be plain stupid, IMHO.
news.sky.com
(visit the link for the full news article)
Here is a transcript of the interview between Captain Chris Air of the Royal Marines and Sky Correspondent Jonathan Samuels:
Captain Air: "This is what's called an IPAT - an Interaction patrol whereby we come alongside or even board the fishing Dhows and basically interact with the crew.
"It's partly a hearts-and-minds type patrol, whereby we'll come along and speak to the crew, find out if they have any problems and just sort of introduce ourselves, let them know we're here to protect them, protect their fishing and stop any terrorism and piracy in the area.
"Secondly it's to gather int (Intelligence). If they do have any information because they're here for days at a time, they can share it with us whether it's about piracy or any sort of Iranian activity in the area because obviously we're right by the buffer zone with Iran
"This Dhow had been robbed by some Iranian soldiers about 3 days ago, they had some money taken off them and apparently it's happened quite a lot of times in the past so it's good to gather int on the Iranians."
Sky Correspondent Jonathan Samuels: Is the captain happy to talk to you?
"Yes he is yeah. They're generally very compliant and friendly. We have a translator onboard who's a great help - sort of helps to break the ice - and we're obviously learning Arabic as well.
"It's good to help them just get relaxed and it's a very friendly and de-escalatory approach we adopt."
JS - Any dangers?
"At the moment we haven't encountered anyone who's been anything other than compliant (interrupted).
"We are capable of doing non-compliant boardings as well, however I think they'd be a bit stupid to start being aggresive with us because obviously we've got seven armed Marines and generally that's not a problem with us coming aboard because they understand we're here to help them at the end of the day."
JS - Any real risks?
"There can be yes, and we're not complacent about what we do so we make sure that we do take all the necessary security measure before we go jumping on a Dhow. We'll assess the situation and make sure it's secure before we come aboard."
Please visit the link provided for the complete story.
Source
Cheers,
Zep
Captain Air: "This is what's called an IPAT - an Interaction patrol whereby we come alongside or even board the fishing Dhows and basically interact with the crew.
"It's partly a hearts-and-minds type patrol, whereby we'll come along and speak to the crew, find out if they have any problems and just sort of introduce ourselves, let them know we're here to protect them, protect their fishing and stop any terrorism and piracy in the area.
"Secondly it's to gather int (Intelligence). If they do have any information because they're here for days at a time, they can share it with us whether it's about piracy or any sort of Iranian activity in the area because obviously we're right by the buffer zone with Iran
"This Dhow had been robbed by some Iranian soldiers about 3 days ago, they had some money taken off them and apparently it's happened quite a lot of times in the past so it's good to gather int on the Iranians."
Sky Correspondent Jonathan Samuels: Is the captain happy to talk to you?
"Yes he is yeah. They're generally very compliant and friendly. We have a translator onboard who's a great help - sort of helps to break the ice - and we're obviously learning Arabic as well.
"It's good to help them just get relaxed and it's a very friendly and de-escalatory approach we adopt."
JS - Any dangers?
"At the moment we haven't encountered anyone who's been anything other than compliant (interrupted).
"We are capable of doing non-compliant boardings as well, however I think they'd be a bit stupid to start being aggresive with us because obviously we've got seven armed Marines and generally that's not a problem with us coming aboard because they understand we're here to help them at the end of the day."
JS - Any real risks?
"There can be yes, and we're not complacent about what we do so we make sure that we do take all the necessary security measure before we go jumping on a Dhow. We'll assess the situation and make sure it's secure before we come aboard."
Please visit the link provided for the complete story.
Source
Cheers,
Zep
Oh this indeed is an interesting piece of information!
So - after all these marines were spying on Iran and NOT enforcing the U.N. resolution by inspecting the ships in the Gulf as they said in the first place. Well this certainly changes this story a Little bit doesn't it? If they were spying on Iran it would not be surprising if they violated the "borderline" to get closer. Anyway, nice to see that this valuable part of this story was released right now, when these marines are free. Which only prooves that the MoD part of the story is just a bunch of bollocks after all.
[edit on 5/4/07 by Souljah]
So - after all these marines were spying on Iran and NOT enforcing the U.N. resolution by inspecting the ships in the Gulf as they said in the first place. Well this certainly changes this story a Little bit doesn't it? If they were spying on Iran it would not be surprising if they violated the "borderline" to get closer. Anyway, nice to see that this valuable part of this story was released right now, when these marines are free. Which only prooves that the MoD part of the story is just a bunch of bollocks after all.
[edit on 5/4/07 by Souljah]
It's called networking. It's what people have been doing for thousands for years. In any type of line or work whether military to business that's
what you should do naturally.
The bottom line is, they suspected that the merchant vessel was carrying in Iranian deliveries to insurgents. Thus they were gathering intelligence.
The captain has not said that they were in Iranian waters. End of story.
Originally posted by Souljah
Oh this indeed is an interesting piece of information!
So - after all these marines were spying on Iran and NOT enforcing the U.N. resolution by inspecting the ships in the Gulf as they said in the first place. Well this certainly changes this story a Little bit doesn't it? If they were spying on Iran it would not be surprising if they violated the "borderline" to get closer. Anyway, nice to see that this valuable part of this story was released right now, when these marines are free. Which only prooves that the MoD part of the story is just a bunch of bollocks after all.
[edit on 5/4/07 by Souljah]
Oh come on... You didn't even read the freaking story! Instead of adding something valuable to the thread you've simply exposed yourself as the biggest, most uninformed anti-british, anti-american, anti-whatever on the forum!
The Captain had indicated that while "Engaging fishing Dhows..." near "the buffer zone with Iranian waters" they asked the fisherman about piracy and other such events which might provide them "intel on the Iranians." Hmmm.. now THAT doesn't sound the least bit nafarious as you would like to believe it is. But you would know that... if you had actually read the story.
Exactly!
What I find extremely odd is the fact that Sky are pushing this story as if it is some major revelation. "Tonight we reveal the true extent of the marines operation in the gulf blah blah blah". This is based on nothing other than the interview with Capt. Air which they filmed in the week prior to their arrest. As anyone can see themselves from the interview or read from the transcript above, there is absolutely nothing you wouldn't expect to hear from the marines who are carrying out these inspection operations.
At least Sky waited until the servicemen/woman were released before showing the interviw. However, two thumbs down to them for their blatant "exclusive" sensationalism I'm afraid
Cheers,
Zep
What I find extremely odd is the fact that Sky are pushing this story as if it is some major revelation. "Tonight we reveal the true extent of the marines operation in the gulf blah blah blah". This is based on nothing other than the interview with Capt. Air which they filmed in the week prior to their arrest. As anyone can see themselves from the interview or read from the transcript above, there is absolutely nothing you wouldn't expect to hear from the marines who are carrying out these inspection operations.
At least Sky waited until the servicemen/woman were released before showing the interviw. However, two thumbs down to them for their blatant "exclusive" sensationalism I'm afraid
Cheers,
Zep
I find it strange that Sky are taking this angle, particularly if you believe that Sky is just a sister company of Fox and is run by Zionists. It's
hardly the sort of angle you should put on a story to further a neo-con/satanist/zionist/whatever you want agenda.
We knew this anyway. That was the mission of the HMS Cornwall in the first place. Iran is meddling in Iraq, they are patrolling the waterway to prevent this.
Why Sky News is releasing this now just confirms that Sky is just interested in making headlines, and beating other news agencies to a big story that will create debate, and potentially upset the British government.
We knew this anyway. That was the mission of the HMS Cornwall in the first place. Iran is meddling in Iraq, they are patrolling the waterway to prevent this.
Why Sky News is releasing this now just confirms that Sky is just interested in making headlines, and beating other news agencies to a big story that will create debate, and potentially upset the British government.
Souljah
As stated already, you must not have actually read it.
It is obvious that you can not call the actions of those sailors intel or recon, and you only make yourself look foolish to those of us that did actually read the article.
[edit on 5-4-2007 by cavscout]
As stated already, you must not have actually read it.
It is obvious that you can not call the actions of those sailors intel or recon, and you only make yourself look foolish to those of us that did actually read the article.
[edit on 5-4-2007 by cavscout]
Originally posted by Zep Tepi
At least Sky waited until the servicemen/woman were released before showing the interviw. However, two thumbs down to them for their blatant "exclusive" sensationalism I'm afraid
Cheers,
Zep
Unfortunately Sky are fond of this. I watched in disbelief yesterday when a female newsreader was talking to the grandmother of one of the sailors who had just been released.
The sky newsreader asked the grandmother how she had found out about the sailors release and got the answer, "I watched it on Channel 4 news" (I did find that quite amusing).
The Sky newsreader kept saying several times that if she had watched Sky news and not Channel 4 she would have found out earlier!
Who gives a damn on which channel a grandmother finds out her grandson has just been released from his captors? Could'nt Sky just have been glad for this grandmother for a moment instead of bitching about a rival news network?
Makes me sick sometimes. I can see why Sky are Fox's sister news network.
CX.
Yellow Snow
The way this story has been promoted is distressingly misleading.
If the practice of taking Captain Air's statements out of context and presenting them in a deceitful manner is what Sky News considers ethical journalism, then by all means allow me to apply their own standards and quote them as saying:
"We [...]held the interview [...] now so it would [...] jeopardise their safety." -- Sky News
Look at that! Sky News is trying to kill the British detainees!
Shame on you, Sky News! :shk:
Perhaps they should offer their sensationalist hit pieces in a more convenient, tabloid format suitable for placement in a supermarket checkout line between stories about Bat Child and the Elvis UFO Diet.
It's bad enough so many so-called news agencies routinely practice deception on their readers. To do so in such a brazen and gratuitous manner, however, is nothing short of abject betrayal.
Betrayal of those they interviewed, betrayal of their countrymen and betrayal of those of us who actually believed for a moment that the headline of this story was something more than bait-and-switch hucksterism.
I'll be sure to look for corroboration from a reputable source before trusting anything from Sky News in the future.
Pathetic.
The way this story has been promoted is distressingly misleading.
If the practice of taking Captain Air's statements out of context and presenting them in a deceitful manner is what Sky News considers ethical journalism, then by all means allow me to apply their own standards and quote them as saying:
"We [...]held the interview [...] now so it would [...] jeopardise their safety." -- Sky News
Look at that! Sky News is trying to kill the British detainees!
Shame on you, Sky News! :shk:
Perhaps they should offer their sensationalist hit pieces in a more convenient, tabloid format suitable for placement in a supermarket checkout line between stories about Bat Child and the Elvis UFO Diet.
It's bad enough so many so-called news agencies routinely practice deception on their readers. To do so in such a brazen and gratuitous manner, however, is nothing short of abject betrayal.
Betrayal of those they interviewed, betrayal of their countrymen and betrayal of those of us who actually believed for a moment that the headline of this story was something more than bait-and-switch hucksterism.
I'll be sure to look for corroboration from a reputable source before trusting anything from Sky News in the future.
Pathetic.
So they just "happened" to interview him a bit before they were captured.
Oh! I forgot! They ALWAYS interview them if they know they will become "hostages"!
What was I thinking?
Oh! I forgot! They ALWAYS interview them if they know they will become "hostages"!
What was I thinking?
Originally posted by Souljah
Oh this indeed is an interesting piece of information!
So - after all these marines were spying on Iran and NOT enforcing the U.N. resolution by inspecting the ships in the Gulf as they said in the first place. Well this certainly changes this story a Little bit doesn't it?
It doesn't change the story atall. They were operating in Iraqi waters and noting information about Iran from vessels which had come out of Iranian waters. That's somewhat different to the initial impression given by the headline - which at first glance makes one think the Marine Captain was admitting to entering Iranian waters illegally and spying.
Iran is accused of suppying weapons and intelligence to Iraqi insurgents. I don't know if you'd noticed, but there is a war going on in Iraq, with Iraqis killing and attempting to kill British (and other nationality) troops on a daily basis. So why exactly are you so shocked and surprised that British marines may gathering intelligence about Iran which happens to come their way from people travelling out of the country?
Guess Souljah thinks of the word intelligence as spying or infiltrating only.
Obviously Souljah is completely clueless in standard military operations of any kind. otherwise, he would know that gathering intel is a very normal
part of all military operations when one's duty is to patrol. Gathering intelligence isnt simply spies and crap. Some of the best and most vital
intelligence is gathered as routine part of military patrols.
The sailors were patroling the Iraqi/Iranian border. iranians were suspected of running illegal shipments of stuff in the area. Thus, the sailors' job was not only to stop suspicous boats, but also to observe the Iranians and gather any intel on their movements in Iranian waters, as well as any new deployments of boats or subs. They aren't stupid. part of their UN mandate is to protect these waters. In order to protect them, they must also know what the hell their enemies are up to.
I figured this would be simple enough for even the thickest of people to understand.
The sailors were patroling the Iraqi/Iranian border. iranians were suspected of running illegal shipments of stuff in the area. Thus, the sailors' job was not only to stop suspicous boats, but also to observe the Iranians and gather any intel on their movements in Iranian waters, as well as any new deployments of boats or subs. They aren't stupid. part of their UN mandate is to protect these waters. In order to protect them, they must also know what the hell their enemies are up to.
I figured this would be simple enough for even the thickest of people to understand.
So, What Intelligence Did They Gather?
It's right there in the source article:
So Iranian soldiers are boarding and robbing dhows in Iraqi waters, and somehow that's unremarkable?
In the immediate wake of this whole ordeal over national sovereignty and trespassing, is there some reason that's not the headline?
Of course it's clear that fellow member Souljah was taken in by this, but I don't recommend being too hard on him, because with so much information to sift through, any of us could be misled by devious news outlets.
Such as Sky News.
Birth Of A Big Lie
And ATSers are by no means the only ones who can be so deceived:
www.google.com...
Now we get to see how much traction this meme gets and watch as it is regurgitated again and again by other media outlets, bloggers and propagandists until it becomes yet another Big Lie atop a pile of Big Lies.
Eventually it will be accepted as fact by those for whom it reinforces their prejudices: "Oh yes, the Brits were spying on Iran. That's the real reason they were arrested. Because they were spies."
Um, right.
It's right there in the source article:
"Secondly it's to gather int (Intelligence). If they do have any information because they're here for days at a time, they can share it with us whether it's about piracy or any sort of Iranian activity in the area because obviously we're right by the buffer zone with Iran
"This Dhow had been robbed by some Iranian soldiers about 3 days ago, they had some money taken off them and apparently it's happened quite a lot of times in the past so it's good to gather int on the Iranians."
So Iranian soldiers are boarding and robbing dhows in Iraqi waters, and somehow that's unremarkable?
In the immediate wake of this whole ordeal over national sovereignty and trespassing, is there some reason that's not the headline?
Of course it's clear that fellow member Souljah was taken in by this, but I don't recommend being too hard on him, because with so much information to sift through, any of us could be misled by devious news outlets.
Such as Sky News.
Birth Of A Big Lie
And ATSers are by no means the only ones who can be so deceived:
www.google.com...
Now we get to see how much traction this meme gets and watch as it is regurgitated again and again by other media outlets, bloggers and propagandists until it becomes yet another Big Lie atop a pile of Big Lies.
Eventually it will be accepted as fact by those for whom it reinforces their prejudices: "Oh yes, the Brits were spying on Iran. That's the real reason they were arrested. Because they were spies."
Um, right.
The Big Lie Spreads
No sooner said, than...
Notice how this paragraph is worded: as if Sky News has evidence the U.K. is lying. Is that true?
Nothing Captain Air said contradicts Britain's claims.
The "intelligence" he referred to involved interviewing the crews of ships in the area regarding piracy and border crossings, which would indeed be routine and wholly appropriate for the assigned mission.
Already the meme is taking hold: this Associated Press article is written to make it look like what Captain Air said contradicts what the British government said when they described it as a "routine operation".
Is that true, or are we being deceived by the Associated Press?
God knows there's no shortage of misconduct on the part of all governments involved, but for some reason watching this particular piece of smear openly take shape is particularly irritating.
Am I wrong? Am I missing something here? Am I being unfair to Sky News and the Associated Press?
If so, I'm willing to be corrected and apologize.
But right now, this is looking very much like manipulation and deceit to me, and I don't care for it at all.
No sooner said, than...
Britons: Iran bound, threatened captives
Britain insisted the crew was on a routine operation when seized — but Sky News reported Thursday that Air said in an interview days before his capture that his crew was gathering intelligence on Iran during their patrols. Sky said it held the interview because it thought it could hamper the crew's release.
Notice how this paragraph is worded: as if Sky News has evidence the U.K. is lying. Is that true?
Nothing Captain Air said contradicts Britain's claims.
The "intelligence" he referred to involved interviewing the crews of ships in the area regarding piracy and border crossings, which would indeed be routine and wholly appropriate for the assigned mission.
Already the meme is taking hold: this Associated Press article is written to make it look like what Captain Air said contradicts what the British government said when they described it as a "routine operation".
Is that true, or are we being deceived by the Associated Press?
God knows there's no shortage of misconduct on the part of all governments involved, but for some reason watching this particular piece of smear openly take shape is particularly irritating.
Am I wrong? Am I missing something here? Am I being unfair to Sky News and the Associated Press?
If so, I'm willing to be corrected and apologize.
But right now, this is looking very much like manipulation and deceit to me, and I don't care for it at all.
There are two missions that patrolling units (on sea, air or land) do in addition to specifically ordered tasks:
1) Show of force
2)Gather intelligense/recon
So what is the fuss here, of course the patrol would be gathering data concerning Iranian activity if it operatd near the border. They would be gathering info of Kuwait activity if tasked near their border. There is absolutely no story worth publishing here.
1) Show of force
2)Gather intelligense/recon
So what is the fuss here, of course the patrol would be gathering data concerning Iranian activity if it operatd near the border. They would be gathering info of Kuwait activity if tasked near their border. There is absolutely no story worth publishing here.
Originally posted by Majic
Am I wrong? Am I missing something here? Am I being unfair to Sky News and the Associated Press?
If so, I'm willing to be corrected and apologize.
But right now, this is looking very much like manipulation and deceit to me, and I don't care for it at all.
No i don't think you are wrong.
I think that Sky has been very foolish in thier tactics on this one. They thought, as usual that they were giving everyone the big exclusive, when they were in fact getting thier facts wrong, or at least they portrayed the news story in a way that i feel could have caused much damage.
Indeed it already seems to be doing just that if you read some of the posts on here.
Below is the link to the story on Sky's website. To get to this from thier main homepage you have to go down to the bottom of the page where tucked away at the side it says, "Top Secret....they WERE gathering intel". For such a big story, i did wonder why they stuck it away at the bottom?
When you click that link on the homepage, it takes you to the page linked below entitled "In his own words". Note that this has been updated as from last night. It did'nt say "In his own words" before, which makes me wonder if Sky are trying to claw thier way out of a right balls up of a a release?
It's like a kid saying, "Well he told me to say it!"
In his own words
I have to admit i do quote Sky a lot on here as a source, but the more i watch them the more i'm seeing a double of Fox every day!
I swear it won't be long before someone doea a documentary entitled, "OutSkyed!".
CX.
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