I Have Found A Hypocrisy In Myself And I am Sorry.

I think I need to apologize to some of the ATS members here.

I got up early this morning and thought hard about my stance on Islam. Yeah, that's right, I actually thought about it. I must say that I found a hypocrisy in myself. While I find it easy to ask, "Why are people so hateful" when it comes to Christian and "New age" theology and ideology, I say some pretty vitriolic things toward Islam.

I will admit that I know little about Islam. I have read parts of the Koran but never finished it because it reminded me too much of the Old Testament in the Bible, and you all are aware of my opinion of the Old Testament.

I know a little bit about Sharia, which I vehemently oppose, but I can't say that I am an expert on it. Actually, my knowledge of it is minimal.

I have to honestly state that I probably don't really know what I am talking about when it comes to Islam,as I suspect may be the case with many posters here. All I know is that what I do know about it, I don't agree with. I suppose that is to be expected given my Christian and "New Age" mindset.

I have read a little about the Sufis who I actually thought made some good points. Unfortunately, Islam, much like Christianity, has declared any offshoot of their faith that doesn't completely adhere to its beliefs as "heretics."

My point is this, when I sound hateful towards Islam, I just hope that everyone takes my point of view into account and takes it for what it's worth. I certainly do not mean to imply in any of my posts that ALL Muslims are anything; I just see a lot that doesn't seem to jive with the whole "Religion of peace" that a lot of people claim Islam is.

Speaker

[edit on 5-4-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

I can relate because I've always considered Islam to be a religion of violence but to be fair the past is full of Christianity being being forced on persons at knife point, literally.
My problem with Islam is the same problem I have with anything that people get fanatical about. What I mean by that is when you are killing people in the name of (fill in the blank) then its gone to far and at this time the connection between Islam and violence is very prominent.

Originally posted by Kr0n0s
but to be fair the past is full of Christianity being being forced on persons at knife point, literally.

Well, not recently. However, you are correct when you think about the Crusades, which the Muslims also took part in, and the Inquisition and the "Witch" burnings. This is something that I have criticized Christianity for many,many times.

Oh, I didnt bring that up about christians as a knock towards you. I was just speaking about violence and religion in general.
I also say this as honestly as I can. In todays times, currently, Islam is by far the most violent religion alive today.

Why apologize for being yourself? If that's who you are, you shouldn't have to apologize for it. Nobody's perfect and we're not always going to agree.

I'm not perfect, so it's very easy for me to say that I accept you as you are.

Originally posted by Kr0n0s
In todays times, currently, Islam is by far the most violent religion alive today.

Not too sure about this point, i believe the Jewish religion has not changed for the good in any way but rather it's the people who don't follow it that make us think its not as violent or more violent than Islam, and the old testament is certainly more violent than the Koran.

Well it is always refreshing to see a persons conscience exposed!

None of us are perfect and if you feel the need to post this then you will sleep better getting it off your chest.

Sometimes we do act on preconceived notions when we really don't know much about the subject.

How does it feel, growing up in public?

Like most things, it typically isn't the religion that we find objectionable, it's the members.

As G.K. Chesterton said about Christianity,

"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult and left untried."

SpeakerofTruth, your OP is the most honest, open and human I've read for ages -- I really admire you for being so courageous and ego-free !

We've been fed a lot of anti-Islamic propaganda and we're bound to react.

Most of the time, most of us are fair and judge individuals as we find them to be. Usually, we only generalise with regard to Muslims as a group: muslims we don't know or associate with.

My main objection to Islam is the way it treats women as objects. And I'm revolted by the teachings of Ayotollah Khomeni in his Green Book, those which teach that it's permissable for Muslim males to have sex with infants -- babies, and animals ... with the proviso that should the adult Muslim male cause permanent bodily harm to the infant, then he must support it and must kill the animal with which he has sex BUT must not sell the meat of that animal to people in his own village. I mean, we NEED to object to such depravity.

Same with teachings in the Jewish religion, which state it's fine for a jewish male to have sex with children as young as three years of age -- on the condition he ensures the infant does not 'contaminate' him. Again, this is bestial perversion and we NEED to condemn such teachings.

Christianity on the other hand, for all its faults, holds women and children in much higher regard and is far more 'evolved' than either Islam or Judaism. Certainly there are people who claim to be Christian who DO sexually abuse children, but they cannot claim their perversions are contained within Christian teachings.

Basically, Islam and Judaism are examples of arrested-development. They refuse to evolve. They cling to the primitive ignorance of the goat herders who formulated them. Judaism and Islam have far more in common than Christianity has with either of them, despite their all being Abrahamic religions.

Currently, it's being stated that certain jewish sects intend to return to animal sacrifice. It's incomprehensible to me how educated jews could participate in something so primitive. How low must they rate God if they can actually believe He would gain any satisfaction from the slaying of an innocent animal in his name? Obviously the jews' version of God is miles apart from the God of the Christians. Christians look up to God. Jews seem to believe he's on the same level as their backwards beliefs of 3,000 years ago.

And Islam, too, worships a totally different God to that of Christians. The Christian God would vomit at the thought of adult males not only forcing sex on innocent babies and animals -- He would be outraged by Muslims assuming He would condone such depravity.

We're told we should be 'tolerant' of others' religions.

I don't think so and God didn't think so either. He condemned these basically pagan religions.

God is God. The problem is, various groups remake God in THEIR own image, instead of -- as it should be -- the other way around.

Therefore we have desert dwelling, uneducated goat herders with blood-lusting and pedophile tendencies declaring that THEIR predilictions are the way God wants it to be. That's not religion. It's insane egotism and a determination by perverts and blood-maddened insane people to have things THEIR own way, under the guise of 'religion' and 'God's will'.

When it comes down to people claiming it is their religious RIGHT to rape babies and animals and to slit the throats of animals on hill-tops, then we're under NO obligation to even PRETEND to 'tolerate' such atavistic sickness.

If these sects wish us to respect their religions, then it's up to them to EVOLVE (clean up their act) and show us something we CAN respect. Until then, it's our duty to condemn their sick religious beliefs and practices and also our duty to attempt to protect the innocents they abuse, so disgustingly, in 'God's name'.

We send missionaries to 'backwards' peoples in Africa etc., in order to bring them under God's influence, and really, we should be sending missionaries -- not soldiers -- to those (for some reason) backwards, regressive religions in the Mid-East.

In Islam and Judaism, it's generally taught that those not of their religions and/or who oppose them, are to be killed, tortured, robbed, persecuted. It's backwards isolationism, tribal, herd-dweller mentality and again, in this, they set themselves far below Christianity, which preaches forgiveness, mercy and brotherhood.

These are just common facts. Some people may not like the facts, but that's their problem. The facts remain.

All in all, in general terms, I don't think you have anything to apologise for.

SpeakerofTruth, don't be ashamed. We are all soooo not perfect. You are truely a better person for being able to have introspect and that You're actually willing to work on what You perceive as Your shortcomings. Millions of people go thru the motions of life and never bother to question themselves. They find ways to justify their feelings/actions. The fact that You can look at Yourself and even acknowledge the need for change is miles above most. Don't spend Your new found wisdom worrying about woulda/shoulda/coulda, it will only hinder You. We only do what We know, and now You know better. You, My friend, have reached a new level of enlightenment. What a proud and humbling moment, huh? Now, if the rest of humanity is willing to do the same- We may actually stand a chance.

as dumb as it sounds I actually teared up reading Your post. Yeah, I'm a crybaby.

Peace. K*

Originally posted by Dock6
SpeakerofTruth, your OP is the most honest, open and human I've read for ages -- I really admire you for being so courageous and ego-free !

Dock, and the rest of you, I appreciate the kindness you show. This is just something that I felt needed to be said. At times, I realize I come off as being hateful, and that is not my intention. It's just I have such great concern about the things that are going on that... I don't know, I guess that concern turns into rage sometimes.

don't think so and God didn't think so either. He condemned these basically pagan religions.

Well, I don't believe that God believes that anyone should be forced to believe anything they don't want to. However, I do think that God would frown upon dastardly deeds done in his name. I don't really equate Pagans with necessarily being "evil" or what have you, but, I think they are misled in thinking that the supreme God would require a sacrifice of them.

God is God. The problem is, various groups remake God in THEIR own image, instead of -- as it should be -- the other way around.

That is true. People try to ascribe human qualities to God, even Christians try to do that.
[edit on 5-4-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 5-4-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by Demetre

as dumb as it sounds I actually teared up reading Your post. Yeah, I'm a crybaby.

Peace. K*

Well, everyone is affected differently. I just want people to realize that most of my comment are due to concern, not hate. I don't hate anyone. I may hate some of their actions, but I don't hate anyone personally.

[edit on 5-4-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Speakeroftruth: well done.
Some time in a debate or an argument we take things further then we ever meant to when we get caught up in the moment. Then we look back at what we typed and think to our selves “did I really type that???” I know that I’ve done it, and so have anyone who is passionate about what they believe.
But you actually came out and admitted it, for that you get a WATS from me.

If you spend your life trying to not be a hypocrit then you won't have time for anything else. It's hard to not be a hypocrit on some things i think, but at least you have recognised this one in yourself. I would request you to U2U me on why you hate the bible so much, just for some background information. I'm not religious myself but i never really cared what someone believed and wonder why it causes you such anger.

Really though i would say well done on confronting your own hypocrisy and admitting to it, it's always a difficult thing to do.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
I would request you to U2U me on why you hate the bible so much, just for some background information.

Don't misunderstand, I don't hate the Bible. I am just not particularly fond of the Old Testament. As far as caring what others believe, what others believe only becomes an issue with me when it starts effecting the world at large. Otherwise, I don't really care what anyone believes.

Originally posted by Kr0n0s
I can relate because I've always considered Islam to be a religion of violence but to be fair the past is full of Christianity being being forced on persons at knife point, literally.
My problem with Islam is the same problem I have with anything that people get fanatical about. What I mean by that is when you are killing people in the name of (fill in the blank) then its gone to far and at this time the connection between Islam and violence is very prominent.

That's the problem. None of these religions preach hatred. Only those who corrupt the religion for temporal, political purposes are the ones who must be criticized and stopped.

The Crusades were started by the church as a method of extending their political reach. Likewise, the propagation of radical Islam has served to consolidate political power in a theocratic elite, while at the same time hurting women, gays, and other minorities.

Islam is filled with many great ideas, as is Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, etcetera. We as people need to carefully scrutinize our religions and determine what is right and what is wrong, and the wrong parts need to be excised. That is what keeps religion and ethics strong, counterbalancing the need to have deeply-held beliefs but the strength to question those beliefs every single day.

Originally posted by Kr0n0s
I also say this as honestly as I can. In todays times, currently, Islam is by far the most violent religion alive today.

This is not correct. The other day, I had an eye-opening experience when someone being interviewed on the radio said "The term 'Islam' here means the Muslim religion, but in the Middle East it means a system of government." That is the crux: Islam the religion is not the problem. Islam the political movement is built on a patriarchal, totalitarian structure of control in the name of God. That is the problem. Being a Muslim doesn't make you a bad person; being a bad person who holds others down and manipulates their fears by using religion is perhaps one of the definitions of a bad person. There needs to be a long, loud, and clear consensus that this is what needs to be stopped.

Being a Muslim doesn't make you a bad person; being a bad person who holds others down and manipulates their fears by using religion is perhaps one of the definitions of a bad person. There needs to be a long, loud, and clear consensus that this is what needs to be stopped.

That's very true. That is the sorry part of this whole "war on terrorism." Many good people are suffering for the bad of a handful.

Dock6, I hope that you're not generalizing to every Muslim and Jew. I would hope that most, even those who live in other countries, don't ascribe to that belief. Is there a source for the claim that those tenets are an integral part of the modern Islamic and Jewish faiths?