Possible EMP block

I ran across this and wondered if it could be used to block EMP Its designed to block WI-FI but ime wondering if put on thick enoug if it coudnt block EMP from a far distant Nuclear explosion

New paint blocks WIFI

Link is fixed

[edit on 4-4-2007 by angryamerican]

Angry One,

Your link does not seem to be working. I'm wondering what the connection between WIFI and an EMP may be. I look forward to following your link.

Becker

To answer Becker44, WiFi is made possible due to radio waves. Radio waves are a form of electromagnetic radiation.

I'm not exactly sure how well this would block out an EMP burst, since WiFi output of radio waves is far inferior to any electromagnetic radiation put out by a nuclear explosion. Plus a nuclear explosion emits nuetron and gamma rays rather than radio waves; which if I recall correctly, penetrate surfaces much easier than radio waves.


[edit on 4-4-2007 by bluesquareapple]

I have personally found that aluminum foil can either amplify or block WiFi signals, depending on how you use it. If you put the aluminum foil between the WiFi router/emitter and the object recieving the signal, it will block it out. But if you put tinfoil behind the object (especially in a concave or parabolic shape), it will enhance the signal, usually by at least 1 bar of strength. I don't know if that will work with EMPs at all, but since we're on the topic of WiFi I thought I'd mention it.

Thick solid lead walls will protect against nearly anything, but there are obviously some dangers associated with that.

And no, I'm not one of those aluminum deflector beanie wearing nuts .

I would think if you figure out the percentage of a wifi signal to electromagnetic radiation like .00025% then you could use this number as a catylist to end the equation as to how much paint you would have to use.

Why use Paint?

Metallic Window screen, especially COPPER if you can find it, is a bit more effective. Tin Foil works as well.....

The Paint will do nothing for the WINDOWS... even for WIFI.

The EMP shield needs to be 'continuous' and all seams 'bonded' together.

Even a hairline crack or hole will allow EMP to enter your "cage" and destroy your equipment.

If you REALLY need to protect something from EMP, I suggest a Military Metal Box , or crate ( such as what MISSILES come packed in ).

They are continuiously welded at all the seams, and have an O ring between the hinged lid and the bottom of the "crate".. Where this O ring is, you need to fabricate a "Window Screen STRAW" all rolled up neatly, to SMASH IN BETWEEN THE LID AND THE BOTTOM OF THE BOX TO MAKE A COMPLETE BONDED SEAL. Think "Electrically Conductive" between the crate top and bottom, even scraping or wire brushing PAINT off to complete the seal.

THEN seal this seam with metal airconditioning tape. ( after you pack your electronics inside as detailed below )

When you put your electronics inside the box, put a layer of rubber, or even cardboard Down first, to insulate the metal bottom, top and sides from any 'spark gap' electrical contact with your electronics.

Then remove all antennas from your electonics, remove the batteries, hard drives, memory chips AND POWER CORDS from each item.

Wrap each item in rubber or cardboard FIRST. THEN wrap each item in aluminum foil, being sure not to RIP the foil anywhere. Now re-wrap that in another layer of cardboard, to protect the inner foil. NOW re-wrap all that with another layer of FOIL including a short, stranded 10 gauge BONDING WIRE attatched to each 'outer' layer of foil.

Set each piece of electronics carefully inside the crate, and connect EACH bonding wire from each piece of electronics to every other piece of electronics in the "crate".

You have now insulated each item internally from EMP and you have also created a "field" for any stray electrical pulse to EVENLY distribute throughout the ENTIRE inside compartment, ontop the OUTER layer of foil.

********* Here is where the DEBATE starts ***********

1. DO I GROUND all the internal electronics, with their outer layer of foil, to a WET earth ground, outside the "Crate" ? ( including the outer surface the "crate" itself)

OR .....

2. DO I NOT GROUND the internal components to an outside source. ( and DO NOT Ground the outer surface of the "crate" )

********* It really depends on WHO you Believe **********

I personally think that GROUNDING will actually act as a Lightening ROD, attracting EMP. Its SO FAST... Much FASTER than Lightening, and MUCH MUCH HIGHER voltages that even 'lightening arrstors' for HAM antennas are NOT FAST ENOUGH to 'shunt' the stray electrical pulse to even a PROPER 'WET' deep GROUND. Even a very short distance is improbable.

I PERSONALLY go with the "FLOATING GROUND" theory, like the tires of an auto insulating it from the street.

I personally BOND each component on the 'outer layer' of foil ( inside the "crate ", but I DO NOT GROUND the internal components or even the outer 'shell' of the metal "crate" to an outside WET earth Grounding rod.

By 'bonding' the internal components, you create a 'potential' for all of the stray pulses, (that gets through your OUTER crate), to evenly flow over the entire surface area of all theOUTER foil, not just 'one corner' of your HAM or shortwave rig. This should help to dissipate the charge over a wider area internally inside the crate, to prevent damage to select areas of a single item.

DO NOT store rolled up cords inside this "Crate". Do not store wires over 30 inches inside this crate. Do not store antennas inside this crate.

As a final step, after making sure all external seams and holes in the "crate" are sealed, perhaps you could set this crate INSIDE a vehicle, like a covered TRUCK bed, INSULATED fro the METAL Truck bed.






s

reply to post by Blitzkreigen


OK I ran out of room on the last post....

EMP protection Continuied:

BE SURE TO LABEL each piece of electronics on the outer foil sheet.

ALSO, be sure to make an inventory list of each item, its model number and battery requirements on an inventory list.

That way you dont have to remember where something is, or unwrap everything to get to your Shortwave.

You can also stock up on batteries, by reading the inventory list.

One should go niside the crate, and 1 taped to the outer surface, protected from RAIN and "moving damage".

I personally set this entire crate inside an aluminum BOAT, on a Trailer to even act as an additional EMP cage, to a small extent.

I have yet to cover the boat 'TOP' in metal window screen, to complet the second "crate" but I plan on doing that.

Think RUSSIAN 'nesting' DOLLS, or "Faberge Eggs", insulated in between each layer.

******* the GROUNDING is still debatable*****

I personally DO NOT ground my EMP crates, but I will stand corrected if shown the theory and application from a reliable source.


Best Regards,

Blitzkreigen

I have an EMP question...are DC power generating systems affected? by this I mean if I build a wind turbine will the EMP affect the stator coils or battery storage and render it all useless?

reply to post by citizen smith


Thats a VERY GOOD Question Citizen Smith !

The COILS inside your DC wind Generator are WINDINGS made of LONG thin copper wire.

TOO much Voltage over these wires WILL burn them OUT.

ALSO, the fact that they are COILED up, INCREASES the EMP effect internally, as they ATTRACT the EMP just like if you took that wire thats coiled up, and unrolled it into a single LONG wire. Something about the 'circular route' seems to 'increase' and 'attract' the effects of EMP, therfore, never store rolled up cords near your electronics, or have antennas attatched.

Maybe the EMP's think their doughnuts, and they are just hungry..?
Sorry...

Really though....ONE Burn spot and your 'toasted' with Butter and Jam...

As far as the Batteries..... your A-Ok.

Nothing in there but Lead Sheets, or Gel. No electrionics or thin wires to burn out.

The quickness of the EMP burst WILL NOT 'blow your battery up', or even slightly over charge it, because its so FAST.

It may actually HELP your battery bank by burning off the top layer of sulphate ( or scale ) attatched to each internal plate.

Much like an "Equalization Charge" on modern 4 stage 20 amp chargers.
( overcharge the battery at like 15 volts to 'burn off' the sulphate for an hours long process including overcharging, 50 % discharging, and BULK charging to about 80-% then slowly trickle charging to 100% and HOLD to re-condition the battery bank and 'equalize' all cells in the bank.)

The EMP is so fast, think of it giving your battery bank a very 'slight' flash burn internally if anything at all.......

Really, Nothing to worry about there...

The only thing that I can think of is IF your bank is connected with cables to your Wind generator, or inverter, or just connected in parallel OR series, I CAN See the potential for the actual cables themselves to possibly be 'shorted out' by being connected to electronics that 'short out'.

This is something that you normally 'accomidate for' when building a system, with DC fuses, or circuit breakers NEXT TO the battery bank. ( you should actually FUSE each cable as well, both Positive and Negative, not just the 'Positive' as 90% of everyone does )

EMP wont trip the fuses, but if the cables start to short out and BURN, then the fuse will pop or blow, and save your batteries from MELTING DOWN and BURNING. ( hopefully )

No directly caused by the EMP, just a later side effect from 'shorting out' other components in your system. Nothing new here..

You should have breakers and fuses anyway, even for non EMP situations.

Keep this in mind though..... you may luck out and NOT get hit with an EMP, even if one goes off near you, depending on size of the weapon ( yeild) and altitude of the detonation, and weather conditions at the time.

From what I understand, MOST of the EMP from a 'surface burst' is LIMITED to 'about' the radius of the Blast wave.... You can survive the Blast wave, and have all your electronics fried, or you may survive the blast wave and have all your electronics be A- ok... Depends on who you pissed off last week I think...

If there is an AIR BURST......, well...... I think you better have some spare internals ready for the wind turbine at minimum.

Best Regards,

Blitzkreigen

reply to post by citizen smith


I don't believe it will affect the generator unless you have a regulated current. It will blow the regulator. It will also take out your batteries. Try to store some dry lead acid batteries to add acid to later this may work. I am not sure if the collapsing field current of your generator will take out your turbine though. My two cents worth> I may be wrong

respectfully

reluctantpawn

reply to post by reluctantpawn


Why will , or HOW will it take out your batteries?

Its too FAST to HEAT them Up and make them BLOW.

The lead will just absorb the charge for a few milliseconds.
No where near enough time to 'boil' them.

Especially a deep cycle marine 12 volt, or 6 volt golf cart battery.

Way too much LEAD MASS to be effected so quickly.

Think internal 'Flash Burn' at best... not catastrophic BOOOM....!

Blitzkreigen

reply to post by Blitzkreigen


Thanks for that...I'm just at the early-learning stages where DC electrics are concerned so that info is invaluable

Perhaps I should be looking at designs that allow for individual coil replacement should burn-out occur rather than having them soldly embedded in a cast-resin stator ring array

Another question [if you dont mind]

As EMP is effectively a magnetic field 'blast-wave' much the same as the barometric blast-wave, what effects could this have on the permanent magnets in the generator? Would it cause a de-magnetisation? a reversing of polarity?

reply to post by Blitzkreigen


I had always heard that a strong emp would completely discharge a battery array. I don't doubt that I could be wrong on this. You deffinately have the upper hand on me on this.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

reply to post by reluctantpawn


Its not that I have the "upper hand", I'm simply using mechanical and practical logic.

Lead Plates and Sulfuric Acid are pretty BASIC elements.

Not much to go wrong there....

I can see why people would think that they would "blow" from being "overcharged" or "overamped", with an EMP but from experience, it takes a LOT of juice over a long time to boil a battery, or split the case. A direct short usually will melt a battery down, unless its leaking hydrogen gas, and there is a SPARK.... then you get the BOOM!

An EMP simply does not last long enough to do any harm to the Battery bank.

Whats connected to it is a different story though..., and THAT could cause the batteries to blow or melt, from a 'SHORT to ground' of equipment attatched, and improper protective fuses/ breakers. ( too high amperage, too slow to blow)


I think this rumor got started from "War of the Worlds", when Tom Cruise tried his flashlight, and it didnt work.... People thought that the Alien EMP surge took out his batteries.....
He simply was a 'doofas' who left the light on once, and forgot about it. As for his watch stopping... I'm not sure... maybe it was electronic... I cant remember.... Just remember its a Hollywood script.

Ghosts and other 'spiritual anomolies' HAVE been know to DRAIN batteries, quickly, but thats another thread... EXTREME COLD will have the same effect.

Best Regards,

Blitzkreigen

Originally posted by citizen smith
reply to post by Blitzkreigen

 

Perhaps I should be looking at designs that allow for individual coil replacement should burn-out occur rather than having them soldly embedded in a cast-resin stator ring array

Another question [if you dont mind

]

As EMP is effectively a magnetic field 'blast-wave' much the same as the barometric blast-wave, what effects could this have on the permanent magnets in the generator? Would it cause a de-magnetisation? a reversing of polarity?

I agree that you should look into a design that you can repair, or at minimum replace the stator ring assembly.

You could probably "wind your own", if you had the bench equipment to do it, the wire and can count. The epoxy resin is another issue that I cant comment on... I'm sure there is an Epoxy Resin available locally that you can mix together and re-dip the stator ring after repairs... Thats bit too "techie" for me ... sorry...

As for the magnetic field, I do not belive that it would cancel out or reverse, and thats just an "opinion". EMP is really really fast, and I seriously doubt that it will be lingering around long enough to demagnetize, or flip poles of permenant magnets.

Even if it does, cant you just flip the turbine blade around backwards, and make it rotate the opposite direction? ( Worst case scenario)

I really dont think this is a factor, but I'm really not an Electrical Engineer or Quantum Physics Major.

Anyone possibly have any more EMP information that is verifiable?
Or any logical or practical experience or thoughts in this area?

Best regards,

Blitzkreigen

Ok I have a question.Don't everyone laugh it comes from a hollywood movie.In Broken Arrow They set off a nuke to cause a emp blast and right before the blast John Travolta has everyone turn off everything electronic/vehicles to save it from the emp blast.So the question is if you know a emp blast is coming does turning of the electronic equipment save it at all?

othello

Unplugging electronics DEFINATELY helps.

The overhead power wires that we all drive by every day COLLECT EMP and distribute it throughout anywhere the power lines go.

Antennas do the same thing.

Any wire , or power cord OVER 30 inches long will do the same thing.

ANY Coiled WIRE, like an extension cord rolled up, not even plugged in will collect EMP.

The tests that I have seen with Vehicles that were tested were all running when they were zapped....


BUT... that does not necesarialy mean that by "powering down" you will be safe.

To me, ANY conductor of electrical energy will collect EMP.

This means the little metal BOX that your car ignition computer sits in, the metal box of you home computer, the electronic circuit boards of the plastic framed TV, the metal in your alternator housing the regulator, or the metal in the box on an external regulator, will all collect the charge, and overamp the circuitry. ( fry it ) ON or OFF....

The only things that I KNOW are EMP proof are OLD electronics "solid State", or TUBE type radios, or specifically hardened Military electronics.

Just powering down, is simply not enough, but it sure wont hurt...

Be sure to at least unplug it, but I really dont think that thats even close to being sufficient.

I also KNOW that "Lightening Arrestors" for HAM antennas are not fast enough to shunt the EMP to a ground rod... the EMP just JUMPS right past the Lightening arrestor, straight to your radio.


Now that should give you an idea of the POWER that we are talking about here. A LOT more powerful and faster than Lightening.

Best Regards,

Blitzkreigen

I believe damage is done from the inductance of the field collapse from any coil. In simpler terms it works much like a power transformer. Energy [emp] is emitted and passes through collecting coils [transformers, contactors, relays etc] When this field collapses the energy is released and reverses polarity in the device. This is a slingshot type effect, and often coil collapse energy is a stronger but shorter burst of energy. [energy is not created but transformed]. Thus any item containing wiring or coils of any sort will induce a magnetic field that collapses and sends the current backwards throughout the device, often at a faster stronger pulse. This in turn will fry your components. Many lead acid batteries are of a coil type construction and will discharge and or reverse polarity through this process. My understanding anyway. I guess i need to study up on emp more before I spout off at the mouth.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

I think the best way to defend against EMP is to have everything disconnected and to put it in a faraday cage, its not perfect but its the best defence going against EMP.
With time and money I dare say you could build a strong faraday cage around a room in your house and use it as a safe haven for your electrical items.

Hope this helps

reply to post by reluctantpawn


No, please keep spouting!

Thats interesting information.

I never thought of it as a slingshot.

I will also have to do some more current research, < pun intended >
and at least try to find out what the deal is with 'grounding' or 'not grounding' the cage or box.

I also really hate to think that a battery will reverse polarity, or that a magnet could as well... I'm keeping the faith at the moment, but it is really worth US ALL doing more research, and at least posting URL's for everyone.

Like I said earlier, A lot of EMP tech is kept under wraps , and I believe that there is a lot of 'disinformation' out there that was intentionally planted. Perhaps for Nat. Security, who knows...

With ALL OF US researching it, we may find the 'magic bullet' with modern Internet and 'White Papers' that someone has posted somewhere.

I'm not sold on the batteries screwing up yet though... I hate to think thats even possible... I'll need to hear that a few more times to find out.


Best Regards,

Blitzkreigen