The Disclosure Project is looking for a Professional Publicist

Well, anybody can point you to a public relations firm, but there aren't many agencies that will work for nothing. One agency in Boston (for whom I freelance) charges $500 per press release, and rightly so. You're not paying for the composition and editing exclusively, you're paying for the connections to place you in front of your target audience. They also arrange guest columns and articles in major publications, speaking engagements, etc.

— Doc Velocity

They're only after a publicist to help them? I thought that they would be looking for a new leader to help them!

Why don't they ask the guru of 'the world has a right to abuse your children'? It seems quite apparent to me, that the reaction to the phenomena is anything but an honest and level-headed approach. You have the new age feel gooders projecting intentions on behavior that doesn't necessarily lend itself to the interpretation. Plus there's a web of deceit from the publics seduction into sympathy for the persecuted and hard done by 'millionaire' who's clutching a hot little Hugo in his hand while he whines, lies and bullies his way through a public image. No religious interpretation but his own metaphysical myth making allowed. Then you have the profusion of cults capitalizing on the facile brain washing alien mythology provides: discarding antecedent belief systems contributes to making malleable, easily led minds, for which an arbitrary power is provided. It's bloody ridiculous. I don't belief what the gurus say anymore except as an indication of the sickness of the world's power structures. No wonder they stay hidden.

[edit on 31-3-2007 by clearwater]

Originally posted by millerman

Yes I'm well aware that he's done many radio interviews on alternative/internet-based stations, Art Bell and the like.

What I was talking about was more like a "UFO Disclosure" TV special or mini-series, broadcast to the masses on ABC, NBC, CNN, Fox, BBC etc.

He has been on all of the above networks and more... He has been on Canadian channels, German TV, Australian TV - he has been world wide with his message - coming up with a documentary takes time and money. Greer has the money (being backed by the likes of Lawrence Rockefeller, Bootsie Galbraith, Donny Berliner, Mark Lindemann), plus with all of the tuition fee's being charged - he has that too - so your argument about him not having the money to fund such an effort is MUTE.

Like what he TRIED to do with Peter Jennings and ABC and got an absolute and complete mockery, and Jennings almost IMMEDIATELY fell ill of cancer and died..... HMMMMMM.... coincidence? Maybe not.....

I don't think everything is as conspiratorial as you would believe. Peter Jennings had cancer before meeting Greer, and it went into remission. It is a known fact that off camera, Peter Jennings was quite the chain smoker 20 years before his death. So unless you don't believe cigarettes cause lung cancer (which Jennings died from), then your case about this is mute.
Even Mr. Greer, who used to be a medical practitioner could tell ya that smoking causes cancer... as stated on the side of the cigarette box.

THINK about it, he didn't publish "Hidden Truth" and "discredit himself" until 2006.... so WHY, between May 2001 and 2006, was the NPC Disclosure conference NEVER ONCE broadcast on the major TV networks? In spite of representatives from all the major media being present at the NPC conference?

I think they must have found some of the claims a bit outlandish. Any smart person would have started out with small claims before stating that we are being visited by 58 civilizations yadda yadda yadda. All he really had to do is get the government documents out there, have the credible 300 or so witnesses sign statements about telling the truth. What to me would be credible? Start out with the airforce pilots, the Air Traffic Personnel and military witnesses that are all backed by the FOIA docs - not some guy who claims he 'recovered UFOs' and knows there are 58 species visiting us. Or even the guy who met with the Paladians at a conference... its toooo much for any media to handle - so they dismissed him.
Instead, Greer did the following: Got all of the witnesses to sign their rights away to him so that he can use their testimony any way he wanted - and he has. These people would sue him if they could, but they can't because they signed their rights away - giving him full artistic rights over anything they have stated... this should clue you in to what Greer is about. Then to make his case even MORE unbelievable - he let people, who were obvious DIA's (dis-information agents) speak and trash the credibility of everyone involved.

THINK. Forget about bashing Greer for a few weeks, and go do some
research into MIC - who they are, how they operate, how they are funded, how they have infiltrated EVERYTHING, what their motives and agendas are, and WHY they would have an ongoing vested interest in thwarting Greer and TDPs efforts.

Dude, for you to assume that I know nothing of the MIC - I would have to state that I know a few people who have worked for 'them' - so I know how they work... that is why I "bash" Greer. I know people who have had TS clearance, and people who didn't have TS clearance - talk to people in the military and they will tell you what they can. There are mind games that you can not even comprehend that are going on in the world wide forum - any chess move you could think of would result in a check mate with what is going on under the cover of darkness. The only way to pry information and let it loose upon humanity would be nothing short of armed conflict and civil war... and WE, the people trying to get this info out - would LOSE rather quickly. Am I saying just sit back and take it? Hell no. I am saying getting the word out to the world would help, but using Greer is like sleeping with the enemy...

Like, maybe they don't want to be EXPOSED as the greedy, corrupt, evil, power-hungry, warmongering, sick f#### that they are?

I don't disagree with that - but just as Greer has his followers, you have to understand SO does the MIC - they range from the poor all the way up to business professionals who, for the main part follow blindly and question nothing... Just like many people follow Greer blindly and question nothing.

LMFAO!!!!! Never gave it to them?!!? Are you kidding me???

Go and re-read the article at disclosureproject.org about how he gave EVERYTHING to Peter Jennings and ABC to do a major UFO special.

You believe everything you are told? As I have stated: Just like many people follow Greer blindly and question nothing.

As for why they won't specifically show Greer's material? See above. It's because his material EXPOSES the MIC/Shadow Government. And the fact that they are witholding vital technologies from the world, which would transform this planet into a paradise.

It's everyones dream to have a utopia on this planet of ours - how better to make some money then to dangle it in front of everyone like candy. Geez, didn't Carl Marx, Lenin, and Stalin want a utopia for mankind? Humanity isn't evolved enough mentally to even attempt living a utopic lifestyle. It would involve some type of Pacifistic Anarchy Consortium - in which everyone lives their own lives with their own rules... ain't gonna happen anytime soon bro.

Originally posted by Floh

Originally posted by win 52
I can bump this for you.

It is about time you people started thinking about this. I hope someone will take this on in an effort to get that stagnant water flowing.

"you people"? to whom are you alluding? all members of ATS? a nation? whom? and thinking about what? being a publicist for the disclosure project?

i really want to know what your comment means because you're speaking as though you have all the answers and don't want to share.

edited to add quote from poster win 52 just in case it's altered for some reason and also to make some semblance of sense to my post which i'm hoping to have answers to.

[edit on 30-3-2007 by Floh]

Well, I sure wasn't talking to you.

I have seen a UFO in 1968, verefiable by other eye witnesses.

If someone steps up touting disclosure of ET existence, then sits on their hands for 6 years. I don't call hoax......I call plain ignorant. If you add some sort of hidden agenda to the stew.

The disclosure project hints at new sources of energy which would make oil obsolete. "free energy" "anti gravity vehicles"

Can you speculate who wouldn't want oil to be king and could there be some sort of monetary gain by delaying the disclosure project.???

I thought of these questions without even applying myself and there is a continuing list of questions, no one would want to read.

You need not worry about any changes to my posts.

Do you have any idea what the disclosure project is about?

Someone please apply for the job.

Originally posted by win 52
Someone please apply for the job.

I think you should apply, Win52. You clearly know what's going on in the universe considering your response to one of my posts in another thread:

UFO's and people from other solar systems are a fact. I have seen them flying in action. I have a communication link with them.

They are organising a rescue mission that will be a world wide event and it will be to answer the cries of help from the millions of people who have no hope. All of you people in here who have your heads in the sand, just keep them there. You people are not the ones who will be the main focus of this rescue event.

At the moment, the people in control are driving humanity to the brink of extinction. They have built underground safe houses. Is your name on the list?

The mission will be to end the senseless destruction of the planet.

FYI- There have already been times when we have been stoped on the edge of destruction and our future is a very bright one. They will not let us destroy ourselves, like we keep trying to do.

There is a whole lot more, but if you balk at this bit, you will not be receptive to the rest and you will need to wait and see for yourself.

But then again, when you consider what you have said, if it is true -as you clearly believe- then the entire Disclosure Project is pointless and redundant because our future is mapped out regardless.

Originally posted by kroms33

coming up with a documentary takes time and money. Greer has the money (being backed by the likes of Lawrence Rockefeller, Bootsie Galbraith, Donny Berliner, Mark Lindemann), plus with all of the tuition fee's being charged - he has that too - so your argument about him not having the money to fund such an effort is MUTE.

Says YOU.

Where are you getting this, that he is being financially backed by all these people? Do you have a source for that?

In the book he says he never received funding from Lawrence Rockefeller, because the rest of the Rockefellers intervened and stopped him.....

But anyway, I was not arguing that he doesn't have the means to produce a documentary - he wouldn't even need to; he already has the footage from the NPC conference plus over 120 hours of witness testimony on video.

My argument, all along, has been that the major TV networks are not PERMITTED to broadcast his material, because it exposes the MIC/Shadow Government. And he has a document posted at disclosureproject.org that backs this up, that talks about CIA involvement in sanitizing national security issues out of the news media. Which you always seem to dance around............

I don't think everything is as conspiratorial as you would believe. Peter Jennings had cancer before meeting Greer, and it went into remission. It is a known fact that off camera, Peter Jennings was quite the chain smoker 20 years before his death. So unless you don't believe cigarettes cause lung cancer (which Jennings died from), then your case about this is mute.

LOL! I love how you just declare "your case is mute!", oh Judge Of Truth!

But anyway, all I was doing was connecting some dots.

Greer claimed to have given PJ and ABC copies of all his evidence.
ABC produced a complete mockery.
PJ fell ill and died almost immediately afterward.

I of course have no proof of anything so people can draw their own conclusions. If you want to believe it was natural or from smoking cigarettes, it makes no difference to me......

THINK about it, he didn't publish "Hidden Truth" and "discredit himself" until 2006.... so WHY, between May 2001 and 2006, was the NPC Disclosure conference NEVER ONCE broadcast on the major TV networks? In spite of representatives from all the major media being present at the NPC conference?

I think they must have found some of the claims a bit outlandish. Any smart person would have started out with small claims before stating that we are being visited by 58 civilizations yadda yadda yadda. All he really had to do is get the government documents out there, have the credible 300 or so witnesses sign statements about telling the truth. What to me would be credible? Start out with the airforce pilots, the Air Traffic Personnel and military witnesses that are all backed by the FOIA docs - not some guy who claims he 'recovered UFOs' and knows there are 58 species visiting us. Or even the guy who met with the Paladians at a conference... its toooo much for any media to handle - so they dismissed him.

So you are saying, ALL of the major TV networks refused to broadcast the NPC conference to the masses...... because they thought Clifford Stone was outlandish? They ignored ALL of the other evidence and testimony just because they didn't like Clifford Stone?

Are you kidding me???

Remember what I said about you making up spurious arguments off the top of your head just to bash Greer and TDP......?

Then to make his case even MORE unbelievable - he let people, who were obvious DIA's (dis-information agents) speak and trash the credibility of everyone involved.

Really! So which witnesses were the "obvious" disinformation agents, and what was so "obvious" about them?

Like, maybe they don't want to be EXPOSED as the greedy, corrupt, evil, power-hungry, warmongering, sick f#### that they are?

I don't disagree with that - but just as Greer has his followers, you have to understand SO does the MIC - they range from the poor all the way up to business professionals who, for the main part follow blindly and question nothing...

Of course! That's the whole point! Politicians, judges, lawyers, bankers, IRS, soldiers, cops, businessmen, journalists.... they have many powerful people on their side, whether those people are aware they are on the wrong side or not.....

Go and re-read the article at disclosureproject.org about how he gave EVERYTHING to Peter Jennings and ABC to do a major UFO special.

You believe everything you are told? As I have stated: Just like many people follow Greer blindly and question nothing.

Oh, so, what, when I read Greer's articles I should just assume he's lying about everything and making up stories, like you?

What a terrible way to be, to not be able to believe anything anyone says about anything.....

As for why they won't specifically show Greer's material? See above. It's because his material EXPOSES the MIC/Shadow Government. And the fact that they are witholding vital technologies from the world, which would transform this planet into a paradise.

It's everyones dream to have a utopia on this planet of ours - how better to make some money then to dangle it in front of everyone like candy

LMFAO!

So let me get this straight, now you are assuming that ALL these scientists and inventors and military/intelligence/corporate witnesses are LYING about the existence of things like zero-point energy....... just to make a few bucks? By "dangling a utopian dream in front of people like candy"?

You're kidding, right???

Remember what I said about making up RIDICULOUS spurious arguments off the top of your head just to bash Greer and his witnesses......?

Sorry "dude" but you are really, really grasping at straws here.... and looking incredibly foolish in the process.

Just because I think Greer is a fraud and disgrace to the UFO community doesn't mean I am personally attacking you. I do find it quite strange that you follow and quote Greer's every word like it is some new biblical passage wrought upon humanity.

Originally posted by millerman

Says YOU.

Where are you getting this, that he is being financially backed by all these people? Do you have a source for that?

Its called GOOGLE - make USE of it sometime would ya?
www.virtuallystrange.net...
www.virtuallystrange.net...
www.virtuallystrange.net...
www.presidentialufo.com...
www.nhne.com...
www.cosmicparadigm.com...

Don't be afraid to use Google, it's relatively easy to use - just type in what you want to research like: "Rockefeller and Greer" things like that - pretty simple.

In the book he says he never received funding from Lawrence Rockefeller, because the rest of the Rockefellers intervened and stopped him.....

Well, people do lie don't they? I mean, according to the links that I just Googled - Greer himself even admits receiving funds from LR.

LOL! I love how you just declare "your case is mute!", oh Judge Of Truth!

Well, don't take it personally. A debate is a debate... you can argue with the medical community all you want about how PJ died - I am sure the autopsy reports will show "Lung Cancer." Sorry, I used to smoke and believe me - I know what cigs do to the lungs - I will most likely get Cancer from how much I used to smoke too (hope not, but its the reality of the situation)

Greer claimed to have given PJ and ABC copies of all his evidence.
ABC produced a complete mockery.
PJ fell ill and died almost immediately afterward.

Greer can claim anything he wants - it doesn't mean its true - or does it?

So you are saying, ALL of the major TV networks refused to broadcast the NPC conference to the masses...... because they thought Clifford Stone was outlandish? They ignored ALL of the other evidence and testimony just because they didn't like Clifford Stone?

It only takes one to ruin it all... easy to plant and easy to control. If you know about disinformation, and the "shadow government" then you would easily be able to pick these 'agents' out... outlandish claims and all.

Are you kidding me???

Yes, I was making a funny... Come on... answers in the form of questions don't hold any water anywhere in the world.

Remember what I said about you making up spurious arguments off the top of your head just to bash Greer and TDP......?

Ahhh - and here we are. Trying to discredit me by saying I am making up arguments. Please - like I asked you to do last time (and you never did), PLEASE TELL ME WHAT I HAVE MADE UP... or will you simply ignore this question too? Your on the spot now - answer.

Really! So which witnesses were the "obvious" disinformation agents, and what was so "obvious" about them?

I do have to do all the work in this debate don't I? Clifford Stone is one of them, yes. Before you go making an outlandish claim - first present your case in a simplified form such as sightings and documentation - if the public and media accept that then continue on... but coming straight out with "I was on a crash retrieval team blah blah blah" is just suicidal - like it or not.

Oh, so, what, when I read Greer's articles I should just assume he's lying about everything and making up stories, like you?

It is so very easy to resort to personal attacks isn't it? So I am a liar now huh? Tell me, what am I lying about? You can't even answer that simple question can you? You like to make claims about people - and call them names. I think you are really out of the loop - you have called me "IGNORANT CLOWN, DEBUNKER, MIC AGENT, and now a LAIR."
Millerman - PLEASE tell me what I have made UP!!!!!!!!!

Tell the ATS community WHY you have to RESORT to personal attacks to prove your point? TELL THEM
Because you have just lost every single issue that we have debated with that remark... ALL your credibility has been stripped from you. You resort to name calling tactics that just slip beneith the mods radar... so be it... thats WHO YOU ARE.

As for why they won't specifically show Greer's material? See above. It's because his material EXPOSES the MIC/Shadow Government. And the fact that they are witholding vital technologies from the world, which would transform this planet into a paradise.

It's everyones dream to have a utopia on this planet of ours - how better to make some money then to dangle it in front of everyone like candy

LMFAO!

You're kidding, right???

Yes again I was making a funny... um sure. You see, its crude argumentation like this that really turn people away from even wanting to debate you.

Remember what I said about making up RIDICULOUS spurious arguments off the top of your head just to bash Greer and his witnesses......?

Sorry "dude" but you are really, really grasping at straws here.... and looking incredibly foolish in the process.

I think this is the third of fourth time you supposed that I was making arguments up - and I really wish you would point out what I made up. You can't and won't. I have asked you before in other threads to point out what I am making up - what I am lying about ... but, for some crazy reason - you never fess up to what I have done... EXPLAIN YOURSELF.
Really - I think we could most likely take a good vote on that and see who would win the foolishness vote... sad that you have to again resort to name your under the radar name calling. Your really not looking too nice.

Sheesh.... this is quickly turning into "millerman vs. kroms II".... what does ANY of this have to do with the original point of the thread?

Its called GOOGLE - make USE of it sometime would ya?
www.virtuallystrange.net...
www.virtuallystrange.net...
www.virtuallystrange.net...
....

Okay I reviewed all your links..... I found some quick references to Greer getting $20,000 from Lawrence Rockefeller for a particular research project.... that's all. Certainly nothing even remotely close to the "millions of dollars" you keep claiming Greer makes from CSETI, TDP etc....

So you are saying, ALL of the major TV networks refused to broadcast the NPC conference to the masses...... because they thought Clifford Stone was outlandish? They ignored ALL of the other evidence and testimony just because they didn't like Clifford Stone?

It only takes one to ruin it all... easy to plant and easy to control. If you know about disinformation, and the "shadow government" then you would easily be able to pick these 'agents' out... outlandish claims and all.

One or two questionable witnesses does not discredit the entire pool of witnesses. And you have shown absolutely NO proof that ALL the major TV networks refused to broadcast the NPC conference to the public just because of Clifford Stone's testimony. Yet another completely contrived, spurious argument off the top of your head just to bash Greer and TDP....

Remember what I said about you making up spurious arguments off the top of your head just to bash Greer and TDP......?

Ahhh - and here we are. Trying to discredit me by saying I am making up arguments. Please - like I asked you to do last time (and you never did), PLEASE TELL ME WHAT I HAVE MADE UP... or will you simply ignore this question too? Your on the spot now - answer.

Well, the argument above about all the TV networks rejecting the entire NPC conference just because of Clifford Stone's testimony.... which you provided absolutely NO evidence for.....

And I loved the one about Greer and TDP, and people like the New Energy Movement, completely making up the existence of zero-point energy and related technologies, just to "dangle a utopian dream" in front of the public in order to make $$$.... priceless! An utterly, utterly absurd, baseless, spurious argument....

Really! So which witnesses were the "obvious" disinformation agents, and what was so "obvious" about them?

I do have to do all the work in this debate don't I? Clifford Stone is one of them, yes. Before you go making an outlandish claim - first present your case in a simplified form such as sightings and documentation - if the public and media accept that then continue on... but coming straight out with "I was on a crash retrieval team blah blah blah" is just suicidal - like it or not.

Well, what if he WAS on a crash retrieval team? And what if they DID catalog 57 different species?

Just because he talked about some far-out things, doesn't make him a disinfo agent....

Oh, so, what, when I read Greer's articles I should just assume he's lying about everything and making up stories, like you?

It is so very easy to resort to personal attacks isn't it? So I am a liar now huh?
....

You misread what I was trying to say. I was not calling you a liar.

I was trying to say, you have a habit of reading Greer's material, and DP witness testimony and things like that, and assuming that they are LYING or making up stories or that they are disinfo agents. You assume that Greer lies in all his various articles at disclosureproject.org and in his radio broadcasts and things like that.

Why? Why on earth would all these DP witnesses come forward to blow the whistle on MIC, only to tell lies? To make $$$?? You gotta be kidding!!

Because you have just lost every single issue that we have debated with that remark... ALL your credibility has been stripped from you

Says YOU, who quite clearly represents the mind and voice of many more than just yourself! I am sitting here totally in awe of the authority you command!

Sorry "dude" but you are really, really grasping at straws here.... and looking incredibly foolish in the process.

I think this is the third of fourth time you supposed that I was making arguments up - and I really wish you would point out what I made up. You can't and won't.

How about the argument that Greer, the DP witnesses, and people like the New Energy Movement, are just making up the existence of zero-point energy in order to "dangle a utopian dream in front of the public like candy" and make $$$? Which was quite possibly the most absurd and spurious thing I've ever seen you write on here?

[edit on 31-3-2007 by millerman]

Originally posted by millerman

How about the argument that Greer, the DP witnesses, and people like the New Energy Movement, are just making up the existence of zero-point energy in order to "dangle a utopian dream in front of the public like candy" and make $$$? Which was quite possibly the most absurd and spurious thing I've ever seen you write on here?

Whaaat? You must have read my post wrong or something... PLEASE... quote me - Quote where I said that about Zero Point Energy???? You are making things up and trying to discredit me... I don't think you quite know what I am talking about in my arguments. Since you won't go look what I posted up and actually quote it HERE you go:

Kroms33 SayZ:
It's everyones dream to have a utopia on this planet of ours - how better to make some money then to dangle it in front of everyone like candy. Geez, didn't Carl Marx, Lenin, and Stalin want a utopia for mankind? Humanity isn't evolved enough mentally to even attempt living a utopic lifestyle. It would involve some type of Pacifistic Anarchy Consortium - in which everyone lives their own lives with their own rules... ain't gonna happen anytime soon bro.

Are you happy that you distorted what I wrote and got caught?
Did you understand it?

Which was quite possibly the most absurd and spurious thing I've ever seen you write on here?

Well stop making things up then and it wouldn't be so absurd now would it? or do you actually believe that I said what you posted?? Because then, it would be no point talking about this with you.

I am sitting here totally in awe of the authority you command!

Well, you should be - because remember, according to you I am working for the MIC, and I command some type of authority with disinformation... so of course you are in awe of me, it shouldn't be any other way!

Well, what if he WAS on a crash retrieval team? And what if they DID catalog 57 different species?

Again, you missed my point. Yeah, don't bother quoting where I said that he should have started small with the military personnel's sightings and documentations that backs it up instead of pulling out "Mr. 57 Species" and looking like a Kook. I mean, you can even tell at that point that the media is VERY suspicious in the video.
No wonder why no press will cover Greer. I don't think he will find a publicist that will touch this with a ten foot pole - why? It's attached to Greer - "The Cancer Causing Alien"

PLEASE TELL ME WHAT I HAVE MADE UP... or will you simply ignore this question too? Your on the spot now - answer.

Well, the argument above about all the TV networks rejecting the entire NPC conference just because of Clifford Stone's testimony.... which you provided absolutely NO evidence for.....

Ohhh You must mean THIS:

Clifford Stone is one of them, yes. Before you go making an outlandish claim - first present your case in a simplified form such as sightings and documentation - if the public and media accept that then continue on... but coming straight out with "I was on a crash retrieval team blah blah blah" is just suicidal - like it or not.

OR THIS

I think they must have found some of the claims a bit outlandish. Any smart person would have started out with small claims before stating that we are being visited by 58 civilizations yadda yadda yadda. All he really had to do is get the government documents out there, have the credible 300 or so witnesses sign statements about telling the truth. What to me would be credible? Start out with the airforce pilots, the Air Traffic Personnel and military witnesses that are all backed by the FOIA docs - not some guy who claims he 'recovered UFOs' and knows there are 58 species visiting us. Or even the guy who met with the Paladians at a conference... its toooo much for any media to handle - so they dismissed him.
Instead, Greer did the following: Got all of the witnesses to sign their rights away to him so that he can use their testimony any way he wanted - and he has. These people would sue him if they could, but they can't because they signed their rights away - giving him full artistic rights over anything they have stated... this should clue you in to what Greer is about. Then to make his case even MORE unbelievable - he let people, who were obvious DIA's (dis-information agents) speak and trash the credibility of everyone involved.

What I don't think you understand is - we are talking about opinions. The majority of your conjecture to my argumentation is OPINION. IF I state an OPINION - NOW I NEED PROOF? What? What kind of logic is that? I don't think you know how to approach a debate. I mean, dude - I don't know what to tell you, but if your going to start huffing and puffing about logical assumptions and opinions then you are going a bit off the deep end.

The fact that Greer "Got all of the witnesses to sign their rights away to him so that he can use their testimony any way he wanted - and he has." Is the TRUTH. He had to do it for the book deal - to copyright everything in HIS name...

I am tired of you trying to misrepresent what I am typing (attempt at disinfo?). PLEASE - Don't sign up for any type of disinfo agency, they wouldn't hire you

Now, I ask you - Name something that I lied about or made up... I mean, I can certainly name some things YOU have...
Come on... Save yourself here - it isn't looking so good for your right now, IS IT?

[edit on 3/31/2007 by kroms33]

Originally posted by kroms33

Whaaat? You must have read my post wrong or something... PLEASE... quote me - Quote where I said that about Zero Point Energy???? You are making things up and trying to discredit me...

I don't need to try to discredit you - you do a good enough job of that on your own, with your constant, baseless, contrived attacks on Greer and TDP...

It's everyones dream to have a utopia on this planet of ours - how better to make some money then to dangle it in front of everyone like candy.

Right there, you are accusing Greer and TDP of talking about the suppressed technologies just to try to make money, are you not?

I am sitting here totally in awe of the authority you command!

Well, you should be - because remember, according to you I am working for the MIC, and I command some type of authority with disinformation... so of course you are in awe of me, it shouldn't be any other way!

Actually, I was joking there.

Well, what if he WAS on a crash retrieval team? And what if they DID catalog 57 different species?

Again, you missed my point. Yeah, don't bother quoting where I said that he should have started small with the military personnel's sightings and documentations that backs it up instead of pulling out "Mr. 57 Species" and looking like a Kook.

That's what they DID do. They started small, with the radar operators and air force pilots.... and built up to guys like John Maynard and Daniel Sheehan and Clifford Stone.

No wonder why no press will cover Greer. I don't think he will find a publicist that will touch this with a ten foot pole - why? It's attached to Greer - "The Cancer Causing Alien"

Well I'm glad you can get a good laugh out of all the cancer and murder and death surrounding Greer and TDP.... I actually find it kind of tragic and sick and cruel.....

What I don't think you understand is - we are talking about opinions. The majority of your conjecture to my argumentation is OPINION. IF I state an OPINION - NOW I NEED PROOF? What? What kind of logic is that? I don't think you know how to approach a debate.

Look.

I stated that the major TV networks won't broadcast the NPC conference or Greer's other material, because they ARE NOT PERMITTED TO. And Greer has a document posted at disclosureproject.org, that corroborates that! That talks about CIA involvement in keeping national security issues out of the newsmedia!

Whereas you keep saying things like "Well they won't broadcast it, because Greer discredited himself..... and Clifford Stone's testimony was too outlandish, and he's a disinfo agent....."

You are MAKING UP SPURIOUS ARGUMENTS, and not backing them up with ANYTHING other than opinion and speculation!

Anything to keep bashing Greer and TDP, right? Even if you have to start making up completely baseless arguments? And make yourself look foolish in the process?

The fact that Greer "Got all of the witnesses to sign their rights away to him so that he can use their testimony any way he wanted - and he has." Is the TRUTH. He had to do it for the book deal - to copyright everything in HIS name...

The witnesses are all still free to do their own thing - they can write books or articles, put up web pages, do interviews with other people..... he only has a copyright specifically on the video testimony that HE took of them - and if you were Greer, you'd want everything copyrighted too! So that people wouldn't edit or make illegal copies or redistribute your material on you! It only makes sense, right?

Come on... Save yourself here - it isn't looking so good for your right now, IS IT?

LMAO!

It's looking great for me!

Because I can back up what I'm saying, by referring to evidence that supports and corroborates what I'm saying..... I don't just make up random arguments off the top of my head, in order to keep attacking someone....

[edit on 1-4-2007 by millerman]

Just for the record, millerman - kroms33 is owning you in this debate.

Trying to support Greer is a losing position. I don't know why anyone would want to act as a publicist for him either. While his idea for disclosure may be worthwhile, he's going about it the wrong way.

Originally posted by tezzajw
Just for the record, millerman - kroms33 is owning you in this debate.

Oh, "for the record"? So now you speak for more people than just yourself too? And how is kroms "owning" me in this debate - when Greer has a document at his site, obtained by FOIA, that talks about CIA involvement in pulling/sanitizing stories from the news media? Whereas all kroms has is "well Greer has no credibility and Clifford Stone is obviously a disinfo agent"? AN OPINION.

I have pointed to this document several times, probably at LEAST five, and kroms has not ONCE come up with a rebuttal - he has DANCED AROUND IT every single time! You have nothing to say about that document, kroms? Maybe because it PROVES YOU WRONG?

And the bit about them talking about zero-point energy in order to "dangle a utopian dream in front of the public like candy" just to make $$$.... that was a real gem.....

[edit on 1-4-2007 by millerman]

Originally posted by millerman


And the bit about them talking about zero-point energy in order to "dangle a utopian dream in front of the public like candy" just to make $$$.... that was a real gem.....

Seriously - you do not understand what I was talking about - I asked you to quote where I stated ANYTHING about Zero POINT ENERGY... YOU FAILED to do so.
So, unfortunately for you - I actually HAVE to explain what I was talking about... so... sorry everyone.

WHAT I was talking about was more on a HISTORICAL level then anything else - DANGLING A UTOPIA INFRONT OF HUMANITY LIKE CANDY - LIKE CARL MARX, LENIN AND ALL THE OTHER COMMUNISTS. I think EVERYONE who read my statement on that UNDERSTOOD IT BUT YOU. You need to read a history book.

When were Carl Marx, Lenin - and any other Communist regime goofing around with Zero Point ENERGY?

You totally missed my point - and are beyond left field with your replies and assumptions.

Please read some history.

Originally posted by kroms33

WHAT I was talking about was more on a HISTORICAL level then anything else - DANGLING A UTOPIA INFRONT OF HUMANITY LIKE CANDY - LIKE CARL MARX, LENIN AND ALL THE OTHER COMMUNISTS. I think EVERYONE who read my statement on that UNDERSTOOD IT BUT YOU. You need to read a history book.

Well, that's great - but it also has absolutely nothing to do with what we were discussing!

I said, the big media are NOT PERMITTED to air Greer's material, because it EXPOSES MIC/Shadow Government, and the FACT that they are witholding critical technologies (zero-point energy) from the public, which would transform this planet into a paradise.

So of course you had nothing to counter that with, so you started talking about Carl Marx and Lenin and all that.... what does ANY of that have to do with the point I was making?

Originally posted by millerman

Originally posted by kroms33

Whaaat? You must have read my post wrong or something... PLEASE... quote me - Quote where I said that about Zero Point Energy???? You are making things up and trying to discredit me...

I don't need to try to discredit you - you do a good enough job of that on your own, with your constant, baseless, contrived attacks on Greer and TDP...

Ohhh, so that is your answer then? Interesting debate tactic that hasn't held any ground since it was employed. Since you can't name anything that is a baseless and contrived attack in a serious note (since you have no clue what I am talking about), then I guess there is no point in going around and around in constant circles and typing until my fingers are numb. You just don't understand my argumentation, and that is ok... some people won't.

It's everyones dream to have a utopia on this planet of ours - how better to make some money then to dangle it in front of everyone like candy.

Right there, you are accusing Greer and TDP of talking about the suppressed technologies just to try to make money, are you not?

No, I am not. I do think you need to read a bit about history though. I didn't want to get to this point, but I guess I have to. So, I will explain it in kind of 'laymans' terms for you.

The CONCEPT of utopia has been with humanity for literally thousands of years. Since humanity evolved into a civilization, the concept of utopia has been dreamed about. Utopia in ancient Greek means "place that does not exist", but the concept grew from the book St. Thomas More wrote called "Utopia", in which a republic exists that is largely based on "Plato's Republic" where the concepts of pacifism and equal rights reign supreme - but to citizens are always ready to defend their 'state'.

Categorically - UTOPIAN civilizations can be split into different sublets - what type of Utopia? Examples: Economic utopia, Socialist utopia, Capitalist utopia, libertarian utopia, Religious utopia, Scientific and technological utopia.
Has there ever been a Utopian civilization in recorded history on earth? No. Has it been tried? YES.

Me stating that Greer (just like Marx and Lenin) dangle a Utopia in front of humanity like candy has NOTHING to DO with ZERO POINT Technology - but rather hast to do MORE about POLITICAL ramifications involved in such an endeavor. I fail how you to see how you were not capable to see that in my post... unless you didn't know what a Utopia was/is (?). Did you think Utopia meant Zero Point Technology?

Well, you should be - because remember, according to you I am working for the MIC, and I command some type of authority with disinformation... so of course you are in awe of me, it shouldn't be any other way!

Actually, I was joking there.

Now, I see what I am dealing with... um, so was I... or didn't you notice the smileeee face?

That's what they DID do. They started small, with the radar operators and air force pilots.... and built up to guys like John Maynard and Daniel Sheehan and Clifford Stone.

Dude, no. Again you missed my point. I am not talking about the NPC - I am talking LONG TERM EFFECTS. START OUT SLOW, BRING THE MEDIA YOUR CASE SLOWLY - get them interested hook line and sinker with people who LOOK credible, that you can back up with data. I don't know how else to type this to you to make you understand it... but you couldn't tell by the medias questioning of the above individuals that they were QUITE skeptical of their claims?

Well I'm glad you can get a good laugh out of all the cancer and murder and death surrounding Greer and TDP.... I actually find it kind of tragic and sick and cruel.....

OH, down to the human suffering level we go. YOU are stating non factual biased and contrived statements. You can not prove anything about Greer, PJ or anyone else getting cancer from TDP or anything ELSE. And DON'T ASK ME to prove they didn't get it from above stated contrived statements - thats your job since it's YOUR/TDP claim.

Look.
I stated that the major TV networks won't broadcast the NPC conference or Greer's other material, because they ARE NOT PERMITTED TO. And Greer has a document posted at disclosureproject.org, that corroborates that! That talks about CIA involvement in keeping national security issues out of the newsmedia!
Whereas you keep saying things like "Well they won't broadcast it, because Greer discredited himself..... and Clifford Stone's testimony was too outlandish, and he's a disinfo agent....."

Back it up then - where is your proof? Why should I have to keep going out and posting links and show you what words mean - I shouldn't be the only one who does research, put your facts up man... show us. Or did you misread that document like you misread my posts?

You are MAKING UP SPURIOUS ARGUMENTS, and not backing them up with ANYTHING other than opinion and speculation!

I am still waiting for this information you keep claiming about me to be made public. Come on, I want disclosure.
I have backed up and done more research (even done research for YOU) and even had links backing me. Whats your excuse? Your arguments are based off of emotional personal preference... and non-factual in any nature. What links have you supplied to back your claims? NONE.

Anything to keep bashing Greer and TDP, right? Even if you have to start making up completely baseless arguments? And make yourself look foolish in the process?

but you still have yet to name anything that I have stated was baseless argumentation. hmmm, I don't think I am looking foolish at this moment - but alas - you can have your opinions, I rather find them quite entertaining
I think right now, your perspective on this debate is limited by the dogma followed in TDP. Sorry.

It's looking great for me!
Because I can back up what I'm saying, by referring to evidence that supports and corroborates what I'm saying..... I don't just make up random arguments off the top of my head, in order to keep attacking someone....

Oh really - because, I can quote you if you want me to - how about it: should we go this route or are you going to retract that statement?

[edit on 4/1/2007 by kroms33]

Originally posted by millerman

Originally posted by kroms33

WHAT I was talking about was more on a HISTORICAL level then anything else - DANGLING A UTOPIA INFRONT OF HUMANITY LIKE CANDY - LIKE CARL MARX, LENIN AND ALL THE OTHER COMMUNISTS. I think EVERYONE who read my statement on that UNDERSTOOD IT BUT YOU. You need to read a history book.

Well, that's great - but it also has absolutely nothing to do with what we were discussing!

I said, the big media are NOT PERMITTED to air Greer's material, because it EXPOSES MIC/Shadow Government, and the FACT that they are witholding critical technologies (zero-point energy) from the public, which would transform this planet into a paradise.

So of course you had nothing to counter that with, so you started talking about Carl Marx and Lenin and all that.... what does ANY of that have to do with the point I was making?

Dude, back down to earth please. You make wild claims about me stating that it was zero point technology that I was talking about and then you USE the above argumentation? AND THEN SAY "what does ANY of that have to do with the point I was making?"
You have no clue what Marx and Lenin do in reference to Utopia do you?
You have got to be kidding everyone about your above statements... PLEASE, PLEASE - put a smilee face up there so I know you are joking because if not - I don't really think you know what you are talking about, and I really don't think you are doing Greer justice in any way as holding his battle flag and waving it around...(don't hit yourself in the head with it) your not doing him any favors. My statement had EVERYTHING to do with what we are discussing - YOU are the one that didn't understand it and quoted me as saying something completely different, and now you say it has nothing do do with anything we are discussing??? Instead of reading New Age Spiritualists, perhaps you need a little lesson in world history. Marx and Lenin were all about Socialist Utopias. That is what they tried to create. I can't do everything for you... and I think this debate is going to come to an end soon, because it might be a bit to complex for you... sorry.

I don't need to try to discredit you - you do a good enough job of that on your own, with your constant, baseless, contrived attacks on Greer and TDP...

Ohhh, so that is your answer then? Interesting debate tactic that hasn't held any ground since it was employed.

AGAIN trying to pass yourself off as the "Judge" of the debate who gets to decide what holds ground and what doesn't....


All posted by kroms:

(since you have no clue what I am talking about)

You just don't understand my argumentation

I don't really think you know what you are talking about

Translation: "I am just too smart for you, you just aren't smart enough to debate with me" - AGAIN trying to pass yourself off as an authority figure with these trite, condescending statements....

and I think this debate is going to come to an end soon, because it might be a bit to complex for you

Essentially resorting to calling me stupid again - and who made you the Judge that gets to decide when the debate ends? Since when do you have any kind of authority here whatsoever?

CLUE #1 KROMS: YOU HAVE NO AUTHORITY HERE. You are not the Judge of the debate, you don't speak for other posters or researchers or for anyone other than yourself. And to try to pass yourself off as some kind of authority figure in here, just makes you look arrogant and foolish.

Now, I am already fed up with the point-for-point battling (AGAIN), so I'm going to try to simplify this:

Greer and TDP's material, ALONG WITH material from people like Bill Cooper and Aaron Russo, establishes the existence of MIC, and the fact that they are witholding critical technologies from the public that would transform this planet into a paradise (eg Zero-Point Energy).

(Also former US President Eisenhower spoke of MIC, JFK spoke of them, Senator Daniel Inouye spoke of them during the Iran Contra hearings)

Logically the MIC would not want the fact of their existence and the fact that they are sitting on these technologies, to be broadcast to the masses on TV - so they have a MOTIVE for keeping Greer and TDP's material off of TV, and any other material that exposes them.

Greer has a document, obtained via FOIA, posted at disclosureproject.org, which states:

"PAO [Public Affairs Office] now has relationships with reporters from every major wire service, newspaper, news weekly, and television network in the nation. This has helped us turn some intelligence failure stories into intelligence success stories, and it has contributed to the accuracy of countless others. In many instances, we have persuaded reporters to postpone, change, hold, or even scrap stories that could have adversely affected national security interests or jeopardized sources and methods."

Now that is basically CIA double-talk which means,

We go to the executive producers at these major TV networks and say "here's all the dirt we have on you and all the skeletons in your closet, which we will use to crucify you to the public if you don't cooperate with us, and if you still insist on broadcasting this story that we're telling you not to.... we WILL go after your family....."

So this document provides evidence of the METHOD by which MIC keeps Greer and TDP's material off of TV. (The involvement of the CIA)

I have demonstrated MIC's MOTIVE for keeping Greer's material off of TV, and the METHOD by which they do it.

All backed up with plenty of evidence and documentation.

As far as I can tell, your ONLY counter to this has been, "Well they won't show the NPC conference on TV because Greer has no credibility and Clifford Stone is too outlandish and he's obviously a disinfo agent."

AN OPINION. Which you have provided ABSOLUTELY NO facts or evidence to support.

Which is WHY I keep saying that you are making up baseless, contrived, spurious arguments, off the top of your head, just to keep trying to discredit Greer and shift the blame from MIC to him.

And the more you do things like this, and the more you keep trying to pass yourself off as some sort of authority figure in here, the "Judge" of the debate..... the more arrogant and foolish you make yourself look.

I'm really AMAZED at the persistence of a couple of members on this board who are attempting to discredit Dr. Steven Greer in any way possible when he's done more than anyone else out there to bring the UFO phenomenon out into the public to demand DISCLOSURE!

So what if some of you don't believe in God and that people should not have the right to express the spiritual side of themselves to the general public. This is America and unlike so many places on this planet, we have a right to express our philosophical and spiritual beliefs without having to worry about being sent to a work camp somewhere for doing that!

At any rate, the key word here is DISCLOSURE and it's high time we stop with our petty bickerings, agree to disagree and move forward on what's really important. We as Americans have A RIGHT TO KNOW what the gov't is keeping from us about the UFO phenomenon. Anyone who instead chooses to divert DISCLOSURE by focusing in and ridiculing one man's spiritual beliefs -- the one and only man to actually walk the talk and do something about initiating DISCLOSURE -- in my book has another agenda that's totally NOT in the best interest for the UFO community!

Originally posted by millerman

I don't need to try to discredit you - you do a good enough job of that on your own, with your constant, baseless, contrived attacks on Greer and TDP...

Ohhh, so that is your answer then? Interesting debate tactic that hasn't held any ground since it was employed.

AGAIN trying to pass yourself off as the "Judge" of the debate who gets to decide what holds ground and what doesn't....

The list of my titles grows!!!
Again, this is all according to your rationalization and lack of objectivity.

All posted by kroms:

(since you have no clue what I am talking about)

You just don't understand my argumentation

I don't really think you know what you are talking about

You haven't posted one shred of type that would direct readers attention otherwise... have you?

Translation: "I am just too smart for you, you just aren't smart enough to debate with me" - AGAIN trying to pass yourself off as an authority figure with these trite, condescending statements....

Well, instead of replying to what I was talking about (Utopic Dreams of Greer - you decide to reference this - which is an obvious show that I was right in my speculation now... isn't it? And should I point out your trite and condescending remarks - or should I leave them out for now? Nah, I won't stoop to your level.

So much for a debate: I pretty much rest my case man, I mean - you are bringing this to a personal level, and you haven't answered anything I stated about historical data and your silly anomaly about zero point energy and utopia... so - YEAH, I don't think it is condescending for me to state that you don't know what you are talking about, or even what I am talking about... you haven't made any type of attempt to dispute what I typed about the matter at hand.

and I think this debate is going to come to an end soon, because it might be a bit to complex for you

Essentially resorting to calling me stupid again - and who made you the Judge that gets to decide when the debate ends? Since when do you have any kind of authority here whatsoever?

Because I knew you wouldn't answer anything that I typed - nothing. Not one shred of effort put forth in claiming that I made something up about Greer and Zero point energy/Greer/Utopia.... you just have a problem admitting you were wrong and even attempt to make me out to be talking about what you WANTED me to be talking about, when it was a completely different statement you seemingly didn't understand. Don't blame YOUR words on ME... YOU typed them.

CLUE #1 KROMS: YOU HAVE NO AUTHORITY HERE. You are not the Judge of the debate, you don't speak for other posters or researchers or for anyone other than yourself. And to try to pass yourself off as some kind of authority figure in here, just makes you look arrogant and foolish.

LOL - wow.
Again, MM - where did I try to do this? How am I seemingly stating that I am some authority figure? Or is this again some derailment tactic to sidestep the real issues I brought up that you can't answer? How coy.

(Also former US President Eisenhower spoke of MIC, JFK spoke of them, Senator Daniel Inouye spoke of them during the Iran Contra hearings)

Logically the MIC would not want the fact of their existence and the fact that they are sitting on these technologies, to be broadcast to the masses on TV - so they have a MOTIVE for keeping Greer and TDP's material off of TV, and any other material that exposes them.

Where am I disputing the MIC? It seems that you are almost reading from some script or something. Such a circular conversation only exhibits limited knowledge on the said subject matter. It's almost like you run out of ammo and go back and start typing rhetoric about things already discussed... WHY?

Greer has a document, obtained via FOIA, posted at disclosureproject.org, which states:

"PAO [Public Affairs Office] now has relationships with reporters from every major wire service, newspaper, news weekly, and television network in the nation. This has helped us turn some intelligence failure stories into intelligence success stories, and it has contributed to the accuracy of countless others. In many instances, we have persuaded reporters to postpone, change, hold, or even scrap stories that could have adversely affected national security interests or jeopardized sources and methods."

Now that is basically CIA double-talk which means,

We go to the executive producers at these major TV networks and say "here's all the dirt we have on you and all the skeletons in your closet, which we will use to crucify you to the public if you don't cooperate with us, and if you still insist on broadcasting this story that we're telling you not to.... we WILL go after your family....."

REALLY? I guess our reading skills are QUITE different. Would you have media outlets giving away troop positions in Iraq then (such as Rivera did and got kicked out)? I think you are grasping at anything you can on this one.

So this document provides evidence of the METHOD by which MIC keeps Greer and TDP's material off of TV. (The involvement of the CIA)

Sure... all the evidence in the world. I mean, Greer is mentioned in the document by name... or wait, no he isn't!
Speculation, biased opinion, and dogmatic

I have demonstrated MIC's MOTIVE for keeping Greer's material off of TV, and the METHOD by which they do it.
All backed up with plenty of evidence and documentation.

Yes, you have! With YOUR OPINION!

Which is WHY I keep saying that you are making up baseless, contrived, spurious arguments, off the top of your head, just to keep trying to discredit Greer and shift the blame from MIC to him.

You sure like the word spurious. But you still have not really come to any type of conclusive production of what I have stated that has you believing this to be true... everything you stated is pure speculation - I mean, how 'spurious' is it to call someone an MIC agent or even an ignorant clown when you can't even focus on the topics brought to your attention? It's like your consigned to some circular thought pattern you can't escape from... no objectivity at all.