Is it about time Britain showed some backbone? (Iran)

I swear, some people on this board would be toasting to the end of the world, so long as it was american pressing the button.

YES!!!!

This just goes to show have far Britain has slipped in the world.

There was a time when something like this happened, a gunboat or a navy fleet would appear off the coast. And maybe, fire a few shells.

Iran knows we are a weak nation and will not hit them hard. This is simple.

24 hours to release them or we bomb them back to the stone age. Why have we spend billions on Trident and if it does not protect our citizens, what's the point.

We should arrest every Iranian in the UK who has not got dual citizenship and intern them.

We should break diplomatic relationship with Iran and clearing state that if our troops are not returned in 24 hours, a state of war will exist.

Iran is laughting at one of the greatest nations, and our Government is sitting back and not grasping the nettle. We need to show Iran that being at the table means.

Ask the people of this nation what they want the Government to do. I am confident a vast majority want tougher action. Weak Government again.

And just off typically...where was the support of all the US airpower when our troops were kidnapped??

If Iran insists on holding the hostages I think there are two choices. We either wait them out or exact a price for their actions. It wouldn't be necessary to start a war outright (although there is a risk of that) but it would be possible to offset the internal propaganda lift and oil revenue bump from which Iran has benefited over the last couple days.

I'm thinking something like this:

Britain first gives the Iranian governernment a short window to release the hostages unconditionally. When that window expires they saturate the communications channels to the Iranian population with a message such as:

"Great Britain harbors no ill-will toward the people of Iran. However, your government refuses to release hostages that allegedly strayed into Iranian waters while performing merchant shipping inspections under the authority of the United Nations. We are completely satisfied that this claim is false and have provided your government officials with proof to the contrary. Regrettably we feel that we have no option but to force your government to release our citizens. To that end, we will provide a warning of X hours to the Iranian people to evacuate a particular area. We urge you to evacuate as soon as that warning is received. Again, we wish no ill to the Iranian people but your government has left us no alternative."

Britain then picks a series of expensive targets. Something like the national treasury, for example. When the warning is given giving people in the area an opportunity to evacuate, the building is levelled. This process repeats until the hostages are released.

Granted, Iran could kill the hostages. But again, either we wait until they feel like releasing them or we make their action unbearably expensive.

Originally posted by Styki
I guess if we are just going on assumptions of what Isreal wanted to do the let me make on. Isreal wasn't just going to let someone take their soldiers and they knew that if they attacked someone would make them stop at some point in time. Then they could look like a strong nation and let keep their enemys in line knowing that they could back off at a certain point. At least the next time somebody thinks about taking one of their soldiers they know what is going to happen.

Styki

Israel knew thats the only way they can deal with these ppl. "Capture our soldiers then be prepared to kiss your ass good bye." And thats the sort of mentality that you have to have when dealing with these ppl. They need to know your serious for future reference. This is how you stop ppl from messing with you.

If these were US soldiers being captured by irans navy, it wouldnt have gotten that far. I cant help but think that the Iranian navy would be nothing more then a heap of scrap metal at the oceans bottom if they even tried to take american soldiers. It would have caused a war between the US and Iran. But taking troops is an act of war. So it would have been started by Irans own stupidity (as it rightfully is now) You dont leave your men behind.

A good poker face can only work for so long. Iran is a proud nation. Hell they held american hostages 28 years ago for over 400 days. They will not give these troops back to the brits through diplomacy. It just wont happen. We should have already learned this lesson.

Originally posted by st3ve_o
well i like others have been watching skynews with interest regarding the captured soldiers and i just get that feeling Iran is taking us for a joke:-

St3ve_o,

We have neither the forces nor the man power (now do you wonder why I was always negative about our equipment and abilities in weaponry threads?) IMO we need something indirect to use against the iranians, human lives dont matter much to them due to thier highly religous government hence why we need something that WILL grab thier attention. Possibly getting the EU severely involved (nothing frightens leaders like the thought of losing money) , one has to wonder if this situation could lead to the creation of the EU battlegroups as an effective force.

When i was at work yesterday i was blooming surrounded by 'Armchair Generals' saying we should go to war, Bomb them, Storm the Iranian embassy in london and take hostages, Where's the Americans when we need them etc etc i was just amazed at the stupidity of so many people.

Firstly half these people are the same ones that criticise the Americans for being Gun ho and using force.

If we did go to war who do these people think are going to be paying for it???

Most of these Armchair Generals are the same people that want the troops out of Iraq yet are willing to put them in Iran = like wtf.

As well it annoys me how people can just say oh bomb them at the end of the day it will be the innocent civilians that have done nothing that will be bombed or will suffer i am amazed at how many people can just be judge and jury of other people's lives.

I personally think some of these 'Armchair Generals' should be shown dead bodies close up and be put on the frontline while they sit and gas about this and that and are willing to potentially risk thousands of lives for thirteen instead of letting dimplomacy work it's way and hopefully freeing these people.

'An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind' It's sometimes better to talk than to use force at the end of the day alot of people are still ignorant to the fact why Iran are acting as if they're backs are to the wall and pulling stunts like this to have bargaining chips against the west.

Originally posted by Freedom ERP
YES!!!!


'This just goes to show have far Britain has slipped in the world'.

Good i'm glad we aren't some powerful racist facist regime anymore swinging our weight around always thinking our way is the right way i'm glad that we have to listen to other countries.


'There was a time when something like this happened, a gunboat or a navy fleet would appear off the coast. And maybe, fire a few shells'.

Yeah and what have we learned?? That it doesn't always work it takes a bigger man to sit down and talk through the problems and educate each other that go in all guns blazing and come out with no further answers than we had at the start.


'24 hours to release them or we bomb them back to the stone age. Why have we spend billions on Trident and if it does not protect our citizens, what's the point'.

OMFG holy # i mean come on what 'god given' right do we have to do that you no there human beings man this is the whole kind of mentality that has caused the damn problem in the first place us western countries thinking we can do what we like and decide the world's fate and then we moan at Iran for wanting Nukes omfg wake up!!!!

'Iran knows we are a weak nation and will not hit them hard. This is simple'.

A weak nation that has nuclear weapons and they don't hmmmm ok fail to see the logic in that comment.

'We should arrest every Iranian in the UK who has not got dual citizenship and intern them'.

My god do you no how racist that sound's seriously what the hell that's like Nazism i can't believe i've read that.

'Iran is laughting at one of the greatest nations, and our Government is sitting back and not grasping the nettle. We need to show Iran that being at the table means'.

What makes our nation so better than the Iranian's?? Someone's fallen for the classic us against them cold war psychology, I hope you'll be happy when one day the UK and USA have wiped out all so called enemies of freedom of the map cause believe me they'll be another one and another one after Iran.

'We should break diplomatic relationship with Iran and clearing state that if our troops are not returned in 24 hours, a state of war will exist'

Yeah yet it will be people like yourself who will be the first to complain when we get our ass kicked and then blame the government for the blood on your hands and that you have no money and the economy's rubbish because we're all paying for the war.


'Ask the people of this nation what they want the Government to do. I am confident a vast majority want tougher action. Weak Government again'.

Maybe so but it doesn't mean they're right does it? Hardly weak for trying to save lives without risking others.

speak softly and carry a big stick...i just loved this at the moment i heard it
just the thing to say from the world we live in right now

I really hope they stop pussyfotting around. I hope while they are playing the dilpolmatic game, they are also plotting a very painful punishment for Iran. But I simply do not have much faith in the current British administration that they will enact an effective solution.

We have been diplomatically pussyfooting playing good cop(EU)/bad cop(US) with Iran for the past few years with no results. Iran is like a misbehaving child. When after trying to reason and correct their behavior they continue to behave badly, its time to bring out the belt and show them you mean it.

Originally posted by SR

YES!!!!


'This just goes to show have far Britain has slipped in the world'.

Good i'm glad we aren't some powerful racist facist regime anymore swinging our weight around always thinking our way is the right way i'm glad that we have to listen to other countries.

I would rather have a stronger powerful government that will defend the rights of our troops rather than roll over like a pussy cat and ask for its belly to be rubbed. And if that means the rest of the world percieve that as a racist facist government. So be it and guess what, I do not care what the rest of the world thinks.

'There was a time when something like this happened, a gunboat or a navy fleet would appear off the coast. And maybe, fire a few shells'.

Yeah and what have we learned?? That it doesn't always work it takes a bigger man to sit down and talk through the problems and educate each other that go in all guns blazing and come out with no further answers than we had at the start.

And let all the tin pot nations tell us what to do. I heard a relative of the commander of the Iranian guard say British should sent a senior minister to discuss this. The bigger man sits down. What would have happened to the Falklands if British had sat down to talk. Thatcher had many faults but she was a strong leader and stood up for Britain.

'24 hours to release them or we bomb them back to the stone age. Why have we spend billions on Trident and if it does not protect our citizens, what's the point'.

OMFG holy # i mean come on what 'god given' right do we have to do that you no there human beings man this is the whole kind of mentality that has caused the damn problem in the first place us western countries thinking we can do what we like and decide the world's fate and then we moan at Iran for wanting Nukes omfg wake up!!!!

I disagree that this kind of mentality caused the problem. Iran has not been slapped down and is now flexing muscle. Iran is just a bully and needs to be told in no uncertain terms that kipnap of UK troops is unacceptable and carries a price. If that price is one less city on this planet, then so be it. If Britain is weak now, what tomorrow? Do you want to live in a country that is the laughing stock of the rest of the world?

'Iran knows we are a weak nation and will not hit them hard. This is simple'.

A weak nation that has nuclear weapons and they don't hmmmm ok fail to see the logic in that comment.

We talk the talk but do not walk the walk. Iran knows it can do what it wants as we will not respond with force. What is the point of all this military firepower if it can not be used to protect British troops. Our leaders have failed to provide these troops with the support and backup they need

'We should arrest every Iranian in the UK who has not got dual citizenship and intern them'.

My god do you no how racist that sound's seriously what the hell that's like Nazism i can't believe i've read that.

But Iran arresting UK troops doing their duty is totally acceptable? And breaking international laws. And this is far away from Nazism. I wish people would understand about Nazi Germany and not just bandie about the term Nazism out of context. And please explain why this is racist?

'Iran is laughting at one of the greatest nations, and our Government is sitting back and not grasping the nettle. We need to show Iran that being at the table means'.

What makes our nation so better than the Iranian's?? Someone's fallen for the classic us against them cold war psychology, I hope you'll be happy when one day the UK and USA have wiped out all so called enemies of freedom of the map cause believe me they'll be another one and another one after Iran.

I have never stated that we are better than Iran. This is not about being better. It is about standing up for what is right and not letting countries bully the UK. Again, please try and understand what has happened here. British troops have been kipnapped while on international duties. And our government is currently talking if we believe them!!

What a better world it would be if we wiped out the enemies of freedom. Do you believe that Iran is free?

'We should break diplomatic relationship with Iran and clearing state that if our troops are not returned in 24 hours, a state of war will exist'

Yeah yet it will be people like yourself who will be the first to complain when we get our ass kicked and then blame the government for the blood on your hands and that you have no money and the economy's rubbish because we're all paying for the war.

First, we are not likely to get our ass kick, and I will complain more if we are weak and do not support our troops. we are paying for the war today and am I complaining? Yes that we have not been told the truth for going to war, but once at war, I support our troops. That's what people who are proud of the UK do. Support our troops and expect our government to do the same. War is typically good for the economy.

'Ask the people of this nation what they want the Government to do. I am confident a vast majority want tougher action. Weak Government again'.

Maybe so but it doesn't mean they're right does it? Hardly weak for trying to save lives without risking others.

Will lifes be saved by being weak? The majority must be heard.

Crikey.

Most of the posters on this board still think the British Armed forces are at WW2 level by the looks of it.

Wake up and smell the roasted Brazillian Coffee beans people, the UK CANNOT carry out any form of armed conflict against Iran by itself. There is simply not the manpower, machinery or power projection capability to do it, at all. Push comes to shove we'd be hard pressed to take the Falklands back again.

The ONLY thing the UK has going for it that makes it a major military power on the world stage is the Trident system. Its the only truly global projection capability we have. And no one, not even Blair, is dumb enough to use, or threaten, a nuclear weapon against Iran.

Originally posted by neformore
Crikey.

Most of the posters on this board still think the British Armed forces are at WW2 level by the looks of it.

Wake up and smell the roasted Brazillian Coffee beans people, the UK CANNOT carry out any form of armed conflict against Iran by itself. There is simply not the manpower, machinery or power projection capability to do it, at all. Push comes to shove we'd be hard pressed to take the Falklands back again.

The ONLY thing the UK has going for it that makes it a major military power on the world stage is the Trident system. Its the only truly global projection capability we have. And no one, not even Blair, is dumb enough to use, or threaten, a nuclear weapon against Iran.

An all out general conflict on our own, I would agree with you neformore.

A focussed campaign with specific objectivies, we can do. UK Military would be stretched to mount another Falklands type campaign, but we could still exercise our power. Our military is contained by weak leadership. If the Military is asked to do a job, they will do it. It is up to us, as citizens and tax payers to ensure our Government provide the equipement so our military can do the job.

If we are not prepared to use Trident or its replacement to project and defend all of our citizens, what is the point?

We should spend the £20bn plus on conventional weapons platforms and then we certainly could project real power around the world.

No amount of power projection is going to get the Marines back anyway.
The UK is certainly capable of putting a hurt on Iran, certainly the RN could take the fight to Iran's navy - not without losing more than 15 sailors though.

None of which matters, because no amount of military force is likely to get the Marines back unharmed. The only path likely to accomplish that is a diplomatic one.

The Iranians have played this one well - they've disrupted the timing for a Western attack they seem (not without reason) to believe is inevitable, they've put the US and UK at odds to some extent, and they've made a point about the vulnerability of Western forces operating in Iraq.

My guess is that having accomplished these goals, they are likely to make some kind of deal fairly soon.

I expect the Iranians believe they have got all the advantage out of this temporary capture they can reasonably expect. The US returned 1 of 6 Iranians captured several weeks ago in Iraq at a Iranian consulate building.

The price of oil shot up from the 60s to the 80s which should be a strong reminder to Bush43 how vulnerable the US economy is to the 3 miles wide Strait of Hormuz. I doubt Bush43 comprehends this.

And had the UK listened to the armchair tough guys in here, those Royal Marines would likely be dead, or at the very least held prisoner indefinitely.

Still, I realize a successful bit of diplomacy is not as emotionally satisfying as a good old fashioned butt-kicking