F-35 Lightning II (2) testing and production thread

www.defense-aerospace.com...

Three independent defense offices separately concluded that program cost estimates are understated by as much as $38 billion and that the development schedule is likely to slip from 12 to 27 months. Discrepancies in cost estimates add to program risks and hinder congressional oversight

and

Further, expected cost per flight hour now exceeds that of the F-16 legacy fighter, one of the aircraft it is intended to replace

costs are up and real world useage price are now higher than the `oh so cheap` F16

the report is from the GAO. and really shows concern over the entire programme

More news today as the Netherlands has decided to join JSF evaluation team. The decision is one that has been made now due to money/airspace/speed/quality that the Netherlands thinks the F-35 program needs. They also need for the program to fulfill the Netherlands requirements and having aircraft that are in plan to be used to prep for the Netherlands air force in the F-35 program it self is the solution to the issue according to reports.

The Dutch defence ministry has informed parliament of its decision to take part in IOT&E and to make a 10% downpayment on two F-35s this year, but it will make a final decision on buying the aircraft in 2009. The F-35s will be delivered in 2011 and 2012, with IOT&E from 2011-13......

Justifying its decision to join the multinational test programme - a commitment worth €275 million ($422 million) - the government says it will be quicker and cheaper than conducting a national IOT&E programme, which it estimates, would require 10 aircraft, an additional €200 million to rent airspace in Australia or the USA, and would delay the air force's initial operational capability by two years until 2018.

www.flightglobal.com...

on the surface it makes sense but the issues and hurdles that are faced by all partners in making sure their needs are meet because the USA defense industry has lost that focus that the customer must be happy. Its very much the opposite to the Airbus A380 sales team

The GAO don`t usually mess about a,d when they say `delays` and `cost increases` its very real; i can see both denmark and norway going to buy Grypon - they both allready have industrial agreements with Saab , signed last year and allready are benefitting this year from them , something which to be honest has not happened with there participation with the F35 programme.

reply to post by Harlequin


Agreed and i hinted as well about how unhappy a lot of customers/partners are getting with the program. If Saab treats people/companies better not just personally but with tech and trust then you will see less floundering or flip flop with a program like this. Hard to keep peoples faith up thats its "worth it". And wether it is worth it is what lots of aviation buffs and analysts have been questioning.

www.defense-update.com...

“We are convinced that our offer is the best alternative for Denmark. Saab offers Danish industry a strong and long term profitable industrial co-operation, exceeding the requirement of 100 percent of the order value of a Gripen deal”, says Saab’s CEO Åke Svensson. “The industrial collaboration carries with it an historic opportunity for broader Scandinavian co-operation.”

this is from december , and less than 3 months there allready benefitting from it

www.gripen.com...

thales norway and saab - thats from june `07

I'll agree Har I really like the Gryphon offering its just not for everyone. Its not really viable for countries like Canada and Aus who have very valid reasons for their twin engine needs. But other companies could take a page out of Saabs books in dealing with customers.

On other news the F-35A test program with AA-1 has started the mid air refueling tests this past week with the scheduled day for first fuel transfer the 14th of March.

Meanwhile, after completing aerial refueling tests, aircraft AA-1 is scheduled to deploy to Edwards AFB in California in mid-May for airstart testing. The second STOVL aircraft, BF-2, is scheduled out of mate at the end of April, when the first production-representative F-35A, AF-1, is to enter mate.

Its imperative that this next month goes well as the 35 is under huge scrutiny from international partners as well as internally.

A Defence Acquisition Board meeting is scheduled for 26 March to approve low-rate initial production of six conventional take-off and landing F-35As.

The meeting will also decide whether to approve production of six short take-off and vertical landing F-35Bs, conditional on a successful first flight.

Also next month (april) the first F-35B airframe BF-1 is to under go power plant testing with the first engine run ups with the powerplant in the plane and other ground testing, in preparation for a first flight by June.

In other milestones, a Japanese team is scheduled to visit Lockheed’s Fort Worth, Texas plant at the end of March for the formal site survey as part of its planned F-X fighter competition. Crowley says Lockheed has also been asked to support a formal proposal to Israel, which plans to acquire up to 100 F-35s.....

Completing the near-term milestones, the first static-test aircraft, BG-1, is expected to enter testing in May. “All 19 test aircraft are in manufacturing flow, plus the first two production aircraft, which are on schedule for delivery in 2010” says Crowley.

www.flightglobal.com...

I really hope they make the IAF wait. Its like the kid that takes the toy and shoves it in the toilet by releasing tech to enemy nations and the stupid parent that gives them another one.

I`ve read elsewhere that Israel wants F-35B now instead of F-35A - but on the same delivery slot , which in theory would mean they get them before the USMC.

Well more great news from the powerplant teams.

Maj Gen Charles Davis, F-35 programme executive officer, also cited a 20% jump in estimated lift fan costs revealed in early negotiations with the P&W/R-R team for low-rate production contracts.
P&W attributes the extra costs on the lift-fan-powered short takeoff and vertical landing variant (STOVL) of the engine to a wide range of causes.
The cost increase does not include any funds for the alternative engine programme - the General Electric/R-R F136. The DoD this year is making its third attempt to overcome congressional resistance to terminate the $2.4 billion F136 development program.
Overall lifecycle costs for the JSF programme have declined by 0.3% to $299 billion. The reduction includes a $7.4 billion revised estimate for support costs and a nearly $2 billion drop for inflation estimates. Those declines helped to offset a nearly 27% increase in the average cost to acquire the F-35 and the nearly $2.8 billion rise in the propulsion system

www.flightglobal.com...

So let me get this right and see if you all agree. The cost of the 136 program is currently costing the same as minus .4 mil as the 135 and lift fan system cost increase. This makes me ask what is the 136 team doing right that the 135 team isn't.
Also how does the USAF and Lock-Mart teams sell and justify this 27% cost increase to the potential buyers of the plane who where being sold on a price 1/4 cheaper. I guess its needless to say this program is not turning into in to the poster child of how to develop a modern fighter aircraft (which Lock-Mart claims it is).

www.flightglobal.com...

The US Department of Defense, as expected, will hold onto funds to buy the next six Lockheed Martin F-35B Joint Strike Fighters, but will release funds to buy the next six F-35As.

lets not buy anymore when the first one hasn`t done anything than look pretty yet...

Originally posted by Harlequin
lets not buy anymore when the first one hasn`t done anything than look pretty yet...

Sorry for the one liner but what are you talking about?

I think he missed the word "other" as in other then look pretty.

I disagree with Har harsh words used but it is true that the program has been a extremely difficult one and seems to be further screwed up each day. I'm sure the plane is a good plane but since this thread is also meant to deal with the development and testing I'd have to say that from what I gather most people (public) are unhappy with how it has went.

What exactly is so "wrong" and unusual about the particular development and initial testing phase of the F-35? I see a lot of negative comments directed toward the program yet no one puts it into perspective or acknowledges the daily progress being made.

whats so wrong? the near out of control costs which when you read both the GAO and pentagon reports are so plainly obvious is scary (for once) - the figures are being pushed about from one term to another - BUT the solid facts remain that the costs have increased - it doesn`t matter what term they want to fluff it with the per unit cost is more than they said and the operating costs are more than an F16. Read the reports - its in black and white.

Found a neat little image to share with everyone.



Caption

The F-35B Lightning II rotates its engine nozzle on April 18 during the first engine runs for the short takeoff/vertical landing fighter. The engine runs initiate the final series of ground tests before the F-35B's first flight in the late May/June time frame.

And now some news to go along with the image. April 18th marked the start for the F-35B aircraft’s first engine tests initiating the final series of ground tests before the jet’s first flight.

Test pilot Graham Tomlinson of BAE Systems throttled up to full military power (non-afterburner) in two consecutive tests. The Pratt & Whitney F135 engine, which produces about 28,000 pounds of thrust in military power and 40,000 pounds of thrust in afterburner, was evaluated for nearly an hour of run time at a variety of power settings.

The April 18 tests also included the opening and closing of all doors associated with the STOVL propulsion system. During STOVL flight, doors open above and below the shaft-driven lift fan (located immediately behind the cockpit) and at the rear of the aircraft beneath the engine nozzle. A pair of auxiliary engine inlet doors opens behind the lift fan to feed more air to the engine. The F-35B’s initial series of flights will be conventional. In early 2009, the aircraft will begin engaging its STOVL propulsion system for short takeoffs, vertical landings and hovers.

www.air-attack.com...

They are still calling for first conventional flight in late May early June. But the real kool/neat flights will start in early 2009.

i hope they can speed up the program some what.
i cant wait to se the f-35b in action
thanks for the updates guys.
been very busy lately not enough time on ATS

reply to post by Jezza


No problem Jezza. Hopefully we will see you around more towards the end of the month when the first B version takes to the air.

How about the news of a leak at BAE?

Government investigators concluded that the Pentagon did not properly safeguard classified aviation and weapons technology at facilities owned by BAE Systems for at least a two-year period.
In a report made public May 1, the Pentagon's Inspector General found that the Defense Security Service did not do enough to prevent unauthorized access to sensitive Joint Strike Fighter program technology at BAE facilities and computers. The Defense Security Service is an arm of the Pentagon that works with government contractors to protect classified information.

www.military.com...

And now we have BAEs reply to the accusations.

The DoD IG explicitly found no instances of unauthorized access to classified or export control information on the JSF program. We strongly disagree with the IG's suggestion that nonetheless,such information may have been compromised in some unidentified way by unauthorized access at BAE Systems. There is no basis whatsoever for that conclusion.

BAE Systems takes very seriously their obligation to protect classified and export controlled information and has a compliance program that reflects the highest of standards. BAE Systems has a long and proven track record of safeguarding sensitive information entrusted to it.

www.defensetech.org...

For me the fact that this is even in question regarding security when there has been leaks from even exB-2 program people is worrying. But then again there is always the chance of leaks but to minimize them is key and a supposed 2 year long "backdoor" of info is unacceptable if it did occur and the fact that its made it into the media is even more worrying.

What I find odd is that about a year or so ago a report was published in which, amongst all defence contractrs who work with the DoD, BAE Systems security was rated as second only to Lockheed. Could this be political?

Could be with the amount of pressure that the air force and gov are under to cut the F-136 which im my opinion is the much better run program of the 2 powerplants on the table