I'm curious how many ATS users still believe the official story

I'm very sorry to hear you lost family on 9/11 and I am heartened to hear of the concerns of those around you.

I firmly believe 9/11 was a coup by the Neocon cabal. W was clueless--would you tell him?

My reasons? My career is architecture. I'm an ex-Manhattanite. I read extensively in politics. The evidence is overwhelming that nothing in the official story fits the available evidence. The massive cover-up. The foot-dragging even to investigate, and the laughable result. The oil wars. The PNAC agenda. The stock manipulations. The bin Laden-Bush-Carlyle Group connections. Pakistani cash. The Mossad shadowing the patsies in Florida. The FBI blocking their own investigations. Al Quaeda doesn't exist. The 20-odd war games slated for that day. And on...

And I haven't even gotten to the actual day and the impossiblity of the planes causing the destruction of the towers, and the overwhelming evidence of massive energy sources. WTC7, and what offices were in it. What hit the Pentagon? No plane in the hole in Shanksville. And on...

If you know something about physics, statics, and construction, you simply have to look at the iconic image of the tower disintegrating into that huge grey chrysanthemum bloom and all questions about what happened on 9/11 are answered.

well, thing for me is, ill admit the 9-11 commission report was a joke, as was nists report. but i think that its a case of "well, i dont know why they fell...do you?" "no...i have no clue" "well, we gotta tell them SOMETHING"


but MANY of the conspiracy theories center around a controlled demolition of the towers. with as many years as ive spent working with explosives, i just dont see it. dont ask me why the towers fell i have no idea, but until someone brings me something more tangable than some grainey wmv's off youtube or brings me some really good photos taht show an actual detonation (PLEASE DEAR GOD DONT MENTION THE SQUIBS, THEY ARENT PREMATURE DETONATIONS) i just cant buy into a controlled demo. and if i cant buy a controlled demo, where does that leave me believing a grand conspiracy?

now, would it take a grand leap for me to think the govt knew it was coming? nope, i could buy into that, but im more likely to think it was incompetance vs. complicity.

tell ya who i actually blame for 911. late 90's someone in clintons office anonymously told a news paper that "we can track bin laden to within 100ft at all times through his sat phones" story came out, obl turned his phone off. i want that guy.

Originally posted by Damocles
well, thing for me is, ill admit the 9-11 commission report was a joke, as was nists report. but i think that its a case of "well, i dont know why they fell...do you?" "no...i have no clue" "well, we gotta tell them SOMETHING"

QFT

one thing i like about this forum is you an express you own opinion and thats why some people dont believe in any conspiracy involved with the 9/11 attacks.
i personally believe that there is more to the attacks than meet the eye but id never have a go at someone who doesnt believe the same as me on this

I belive the "official explanation."

I saw the second plane hit the WTC with my own eyes.

That plane was NOT a Hologram, it was a real plane.

No one gave me a "script" telling me what I am allowed to say about what I saw.

You can belive what you want. But there were hundreds of people who saw what happend with their own eyes.

Some good discussion went on in this thread a while back

Previous "believe or not" thread

However, it eventually turned into bickerring and was closed, but some good thoughts thrown out there.

It would be a lot easier to believe the official version if the pentagon videos would be released for public viewing.

If the official story is true, then all official documents, videos, eyewitness accounts, everything should be open to scrutiny by anyone, but many things are still classified. Why?

As usual I think the truth about 911 lies in who profited. It sure wasn't the American Citizenry but a few well connected businessmen and corporations.



[edit on 28-3-2007 by whaaa]

but just like anxietydisorder said in hes first post i think i`ve seen allot of wierd posts here too about 9/11 that dont make sense and dosent really proove anything but i do belive that no planes hit the pentagon and there were bombs in wtc but im not 100% sure


sorry for my post it probably dosent make any sense either and sorry for my misspelings


[edit on 28-3-2007 by dahl]

Originally posted by gottago
I'm very sorry to hear you lost family on 9/11 and I am heartened to hear of the concerns of those around you.

I firmly believe 9/11 was a coup by the Neocon cabal. W was clueless--would you tell him?

My reasons? My career is architecture. I'm an ex-Manhattanite. I read extensively in politics. The evidence is overwhelming that nothing in the official story fits the available evidence. The massive cover-up. The foot-dragging even to investigate, and the laughable result. The oil wars. The PNAC agenda. The stock manipulations. The bin Laden-Bush-Carlyle Group connections. Pakistani cash. The Mossad shadowing the patsies in Florida. The FBI blocking their own investigations. Al Quaeda doesn't exist. The 20-odd war games slated for that day. And on...

And I haven't even gotten to the actual day and the impossiblity of the planes causing the destruction of the towers, and the overwhelming evidence of massive energy sources. WTC7, and what offices were in it. What hit the Pentagon? No plane in the hole in Shanksville. And on...

If you know something about physics, statics, and construction, you simply have to look at the iconic image of the tower disintegrating into that huge grey chrysanthemum bloom and all questions about what happened on 9/11 are answered.

I AGREE WITH EVERY SINGLE WORD OF THIS POST. Please do not cut the quote mods.... I would prefer to use it as my opinion instead of re-writing it. I am not an architect... I am a ME but I am in 100% agreement.

To those talking about holograms, space lasers, etc. as reasons to believe the official story... that logic is flawed. just because some people throw wacky ideas out there does not make them valid... maybe they have an agenda, maybe they are just wacky.

Can someone locate the thread with the list of lies and liars? I can't find it.

I dont belive the official story... but like JFK, what the hell can we do about it?

Its been 6 years since the events and with every passing day we the people loose ground on ever being able to prove this was an inside job, or find the truth what ever it be.

Simply put. I belive its a meaningless fight, like JFK, we will never ever know the truth.

I have never accepted the official story as fact, nor will I ever. However, not all of the alternative explanations completely jive either.

Well lets see, depending on who you ask here on ATS you will get a different story about what "really happened." I would guess there are at least a hundred different stories right here on ATS and there is someone who believes each of them to be the truth and no other position will work. So out of the hundreds of stories which one is real? and why are all the rest false?

The bottom line for me has always been that performing a black op as large and complicated as 9/11 would require a REWARD that justifies the risk.

Not enough was gained by any individual or agency to make me think that they had the motive to undertake such a staggering operation.

That said, clearly there are many unanswered questions regarding 9/11, and it's frustrating to see many agencies appear to be uninterested in pinning down the truth.

But, in the end...

Originally posted by djohnsto77
...the official story is far closer to an accurate description of what happened than any conspiracy theories I've read here and elsewhere.

Perfectly said.

The true story is, someone, somewhere planned something that led to some towers falling down, a lot of people dying, some planes going missing or crashing. and a war starting in Afghanistan and Iraq, along with the restriction of some civil liberties at home.

Pretty sure those are the basic things that most people believe and agree on ( with the possible exception of the plane bit)

I don't know that I accept the official version as the entire truth but I do believe that two airplanes hit the towers.

I don't believe that there was a nuke in the basement. I don't beleive in any of the controlled demo therories.

I've looked at the CT therories and I've also read some of the reports prepared by the engineering groups studying the collapse of the buildings. I side with the engineers.

I think that the fourth plane may have been shot down but I havn't read enough proof either way to decied.

Originally posted by Wildbob77
I side with the engineers.

There is no consensus amongst "engineers" as to how the buildings collapsed that day so how can you side with them. I am an engineer. ME, but still an engineer. I believe Griff and BSBray are also engineers... all of us can see the gaping holes in the official story even if we do not have consensus on an alternative theory.

The "ASCE" was actually working FOR ("with") FEMA and had little access to evidence.

The NIST NCSTAR reports are littered with errors, misleading statements and fallicies...

What engineers are you agreeing with again?

Originally posted by Inannamute
I believe that if I were a terrorist with the resources to do something like this, that I'd choose better targets than the WTC early in the day and the Pentagon.

If I were aiming for maximum shock, terror (and being a terrorist, terror is what I'm supposed to cause, right?) and human injury, then a target such as a large sporting event like the superbowl would make more sense. The superbowl in 2001 and 2002 both had around seventy thousand attendees. A stadium large enough to hold that many people, even when hit with a plane say only on one side, would cause large numbers of casualties, and injuries, partly due simply to panic. If you wish to terrorize an entire country, an event which is watched by a large portion of that country on television would definitely cause mass terror.

Why would you choose to hit towers which, if you look at historical precedent, would in all likelyhood *not* collapse?. A few hundred deaths, while incredibly tragic, seems like a low terror payout for the amount of risk involved in hijacking four planes.

And the pentagon? Why attack one of the supposed best defended buildings in the world? Given the size and structure of the building, it would be unlikely, imo, that attacking a building like that would incapacitate retaliation or defense capabilities significantly, so other than a sort of childish "haha we got you where you live" concept, that too, to me, makes no sense. I would think that a higher psychological damage would come from attacking buildings that have a greater historical or patriotic significance, eg, the statue of liberty.

So yes, if I am a terrorist and my motive is to cause terror and injury in a large degree, and I have the resources to make what happened on 9/11 a reality, even if I risk an only 25% success rate, rather than a 75% success rate as happened, why am I so bad at picking targets, or why did I choose the ones that I did?.. I am not saying though, that I in any way consider what those people who have loss family and friends and dear ones went through as easy, it obviously was not.

But that's what, regardless of the varied theories about who did it, who covered up what, who knew what, which UFO hit which tower etc etc, that's what confuses me. Anyone spending a significant period of time watching the US's primary export of media, could not fail to realize that buildings which spent a relatively small amount of air time, would not achieve the maximum impact possible. So, why those targets?

Look at the economic damage that resulted from hitting the WTC. The Superbowl, while shocking and high casualty producing, wouldn't create as large of a hit to the pocket book of the USA. The fact that they hit the Pentagon, being a "well protected" building was a strong statement too. It showed that where there's a will, there's a way, which is a strong terror statement.

Originally posted by Essedarius
Not enough was gained by any individual or agency to make me think that they had the motive to undertake such a staggering operation.

Why don't you ask Halliburton and other government contractors how many millions in profit they are making. I wonder how much the VP is getting from Halliburton.

Here's some links
One engineering link

Architecture Week

JOM article

Assortment of links from Civil Engineer

Journal of Mechanical Engineering

If you read what real engineers have to say about this you might not be so inclined to go with the controlled demo theories.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Why don't you ask Halliburton and other government contractors how many millions in profit they are making. I wonder how much the VP is getting from Halliburton.

Well, the contract awarded to Halliburton was $7 billion, wasn't it? And the VP will get whatever the annuity he purchased dictates he should get (the one that says he gets a certain amount regardless of the company's success).

Honestly, do I think Cheney deals above the table and is a morally sound human being? No. I don't.

But the man had a net worth of about $30 million on 9/11. If you're worth $30 million, do you engineer the murder of 3,000 people and risk a legacy of treachery for yourself and your family...just to make MORE cash?

The reward doesn't trump the risk.