Wrong images of Saturn

Look at this image




I have done this drawing with the correct proportions




With an angle of 18° the sun would have a diameter of 465,000,000 km - distance Sun-Saturn 1,490,000,000 km

Use AutoCAD and verify.

The sun, instead, has a diameter of 1,400,000 km

Is this a faked image? Are the other ones faked images?


[edit on 24-3-2007 by bigbrain]

thats obviously a CGI picture...I dont think you can use that as solid evidence of anything really

Originally posted by steve22
thats obviously a CGI picture...I dont think you can use that as solid evidence of anything really

I don't understand what CGI means. Explain, please.

Originally posted by bigbrain

I don't understand what CGI means. Explain, please.

CGI stands for Computer-generated imagery.

sanc

Originally posted by bigbrain
Is this a faked image? Are the other ones faked images?

It's not a faked image. saturn.jpl.nasa.gov... Nor are any of the others. I'm not sure I understand your problem very well though.

Well, something I notice right of the bat: the lack of concavity in the shadow from the pole down. This is a study that NASA conducted on sand dunes to correct there imagery. There shouldn't be a clear, line definition of shadow, but more of a bowl shape.

I think this line of documented footage results from the very rapid advance in optics. Coupled with NASA's heavy investing in, triggered by fuzzy returns.

Definitely touched up, with a little too much artistic interpretation.

...
I'm not sure I understand your problem very well though.

Look at this image


Look at this image


Look at this image


"I'm not sure I understand your problem very well though"

I have no problem. I want only to say that all images of Saturn are faked,
made by softwares as Softimage, Maya, 3d Studio Max and so on.
Spirit on Mars is faked too. There is no Spirit on Mars. The videos of Spirit
that runs on Mars are faked.

This is my image of Saturn


[edit on 25-3-2007 by bigbrain]

Originally posted by bigbrain
I have no problem. I want only to say that all images of Saturn are faked,
made by softwares as Softimage, Maya, 3d Studio Max and so on.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Why do these look fake to you? Your 3d image doesn't help your case much. No offense, but it's not a good rendering.

What about images taken by amateur astronomers? Are those fake too? Because Saturn looks the same in there photos.

Spirit on Mars is faked too. There is no Spirit on Mars. The videos of Spirit that runs on Mars are faked.

Same deal here. Have any evidence to show why Spirit, and I assume Opportunity as well (their's two rovers there you know), are fake?

bothered --

I'm not sure I understand your issue with the terminator line, but here is my response:

The apparent shape of the terminator line will depend on the angle from which it is being viewed. Just look to our own moon as an example:

www.metta.org.uk...

When we are viewing the terminator "straight on", it appears "straight", such as the times when we see a perfect half Moon. When the lit half of the Moon is turned mostly away from us and we are looking at the terminator as it projects across the edge of the Moon, we are more likely to be able to see its actual curved shape as it projects on the sphere.

Here's a photo of Saturn where the viewpoint of the camera is not so "straight on" with regards to the terminator:

www.renaissanceastrology.com...

Try this: Draw a line on a ball, pole to pole. Now turn the ball so you're looking head-on at the line, so the plane of the line is bisecting your face. That line will appear perfectly straight (although it really isn't). Now, turn the ball 1/8 turn, keeping the poles in the same position. Now we can see the actual curve of the line.

It seems to me that this photo of Saturn was taken from a "straight on" vantage point relative to the day/night terminator. That's why the line looks (almost) straight, just like the common "half" Moon we see approximately once a month.

(BTW, I said "almost straight" because even in the photo of Saturn in the original post, we can see the line is a little convex, and not perfectly straight.)

...And bigbrain:

What is the significance of 18 degrees (from your original post). I'm not sure I understand this issue.


[edit on 26-3-2007 by Soylent Green Is People]

Originally posted by bigbrain


With an angle of 18° the sun would have a diameter of 465,000,000 km - distance Sun-Saturn 1,490,000,000 km

I think the problem is you are drawing a line on the curved shadow and obviously you can't do that.

It is obvious the shadow is curved just like in your other photo here.

Originally posted by bigbrain
Look at this image

If you use the same method to measure the angle in this photo, what would it be? You can’t do it.

Is this a faked image? Are the other ones faked images?

I am pretty sure they are real. These come from Cassini probe and are high definition. Pretty cool if you ask me.

Originally posted by Hal9000
...
I think the problem is you are drawing a line on the curved shadow and obviously you can't do that.
It is obvious the shadow is curved just like in your other photo here.
...

The sun in this image is almost perpendicular to the Saturn rings - look at the shadow on the sphere of Saturn - and the shadow lines MUST be rectilinear.

Use AutoCAD and draw a line AB 1,492,000,000 long (sun - Saturn distance)
Draw a perpendicular line AC 700,000 long (Sun radius)
Draw a perpendicular line BD 60,000 long (Saturn radius)
Draw the line CD and ask AutoCAD to measure the angle between lines AB and CD.
The angle is 0.02 degrees: the lines are practically parallel and then the shadow MUST have parallel edges.

Originally posted by bigbrain
The sun in this image is almost perpendicular to the Saturn rings - look at the shadow on the sphere of Saturn - and the shadow lines MUST be rectilinear.

The Sun almost perpendicular to Saturn's rings? Here's what Saturn looked like from the Sun's point of view on Jan. 19th, 2007 when that image was taken. That does not look like "almost perpendicular" to me.

Originally posted by bigbrain
The sun in this image is almost perpendicular to the Saturn rings - look at the shadow on the sphere of Saturn - and the shadow lines MUST be rectilinear.

Nope, not quite. In fact it is pretty easy to see the sunlight is not perpendicular to the rings (a rare occurrence).



I did a little drafting before autocad and learned how to do orthographic projection. I drew a line showing the direction of the sunlight in red, which was easy enough. Then I drew similar lines to your angle drawing by extending the shadow lines in blue. Then where the blue lines intersect the outer ring, I drew the green lines and found the midpoints and drew another line. This is splitting the angle of the shadow in half. Now if the rings were perpendicular to the sunlight this line would be parallel to it and you can see it isn't. The arrows show there is an angle of tilt but can't be used to measure because it is not the true angle.

Saturn and it's rings tilt on an axis just like the Earth does. We can see it at a maximum tilt of 27 degrees, and a crossover or on edge only occurs every 15 years. That is when the rings are perpendicular to the sun, and last happened in 1996, and will happen again in 2009. So since this Cassini picture was taken recently, there is no way the sunlight is hitting the rings on edge.

Now because the rings are tilted and the shadow is curved you can’t use it to measure the angle using the method that you did. It would be possible to draw it in 3D with tilted rings and a circular shadow, but you would also need to know where Cassini was when it took the photo for a point of view as well as the tilt of the rings. That sounds like to much work for me.

Hope that helps.

[edit on 3/26/2007 by Hal9000]

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People
bothered --

I'm not sure I understand your issue with the terminator line, but here is my response:

The apparent shape of the terminator line will depend on the angle from which it is being viewed. Just look to our own moon as an example:

www.metta.org.uk...

When we are viewing the terminator "straight on", it appears "straight", such as the times when we see a perfect half Moon. When the lit half of the

Yeah, that alluded me. I was thinking of the tilt of Saturn. Depicted in the picture. Which should have a viewing angle of 20 or so degrees.

Originally posted by bigbrain
...
The sun in this image is almost perpendicular to the Saturn rings
...

Excuse me. I wanted to say that the sun is almost parallel to the Saturn rings.

The drawing of Hal9000 is wrong.
If you look at the red diameter of Saturn and the shadow edge, you can find thet the angle of the sun as regard to Saturn rings is about 5 degrees.
For that reason the middle line of the rings shadow should be almost perpendicular to the red diameter.

This image has a wrong shadow

Originally posted by bigbrain
If you look at the red diameter of Saturn and the shadow edge, you can find thet the angle of the sun as regard to Saturn rings is about 5 degrees.
For that reason the middle line of the rings shadow should be almost perpendicular to the red diameter.

I have no idea what you mean, but at least you admit the rings are tilted.

Originally posted by bigbrain
This image has a wrong shadow

Maybe this will help you understand this picture better. By the shadow on Saturn (not the rings) you can see the sunlight is coming from underneath, right? Well that also means the shadow on the rings is being cast from underneath, and not from above. Now the point of view of the camera, which is the Cassini space probe, is obviously above the planet looking down. Add the fact that the perspective of the photo show the rings being level but are actually tilted, that is what makes it look deceiving. This picture is unlike any we would ever see from Earth.

If you still think this photo is not real, then why? Why would the guys at JPL give out this picture and many others like it if they are not real? Do you think all the pictures from other previous probes of all the other planets are fake too?

Originally posted by Hal9000
...
Why would the guys at JPL give out this picture and many others like it if they are not real?
...

The same way american leaders faked Twin Towers collapse to seize Iraq oil, at NASA some buffoons say to be able to hit a comet or to land a probe on Mars and Saturn to demonstrate powerful over other countries, but they have not technology to steer any probe anywere.

Look at my images made with 3d Studio Max and AutoCAD 2007





The two violet lines are almost perpendicular and the two yellow lines are rectilinear and parallel because of the great distances between the sun and Saturn and the smallest angle of the sun as regard to Saturn rings.

I was almost certain I heard on the radio Cassini was passing across the Southern Hemisphere:

www.planetary.org...

In Earth based photos, there's a certain tilt.

Originally posted by bigbrain
The same way american leaders faked Twin Towers collapse to seize Iraq oil, at NASA some buffoons say to be able to hit a comet or to land a probe on Mars and Saturn to demonstrate powerful over other countries, but they have not technology to steer any probe anywere.

mmk... I don't see how pictures of Saturn give our country any power over another, but whatever.

Look at my images made with 3d Studio Max and AutoCAD 2007

They look pretty good, and quite different that your first showing the 18 degree angle, but the shadow on Saturn doesn't show the right lighting angle, try to tilt the lighting from below and it should start to look like the photo.

Originally posted by bothered
I was almost certain I heard on the radio Cassini was passing across the Southern Hemisphere:

Cassini is in orbit around Saturn and even passed through the rings on the first approach. The position changes all the time so that's why the pictures are from different angles depending on when they were taken.

en.wikipedia.org...

bigbrain--

Did you take into accout Saturn's 5.51 degree angle of inclination to the Sun's equatorial plain, plus Saturns own 26.73 degree axial tilt -- both of which create differences in the appearance of the shadow across the rings, depending on the time of the Saturn "year" (ie. the location of Saturn in it's orbit around the Sun)

Sometimes the shadow looks like this:

en.wikipedia.org...:Saturn_from_Cassini_Orbiter_%282004-10-06%29.jpg

and sometimes like this:

en.wikipedia.org...:Saturn_from_Cassini_Orbiter_%282007-01-19%29.jpg

In the first photo, you can see the curved shape of the shadow cast by the spherical planet. in the second photo, the angle of the sun and/or rings is different, so the shadow is elogated, thus it's hard to see the curved shape of the shadow which was very evident in the first photo.

Since the shadow is always changing (albeit slowly) I don't know how you can point to this one photo and say the shadow is wrong.

[edit on 28-3-2007 by Soylent Green Is People]