beliefs

I'm not a creationist or do I accept darwinian evolution.

I do not have a clue when or how life started. niether do I know how living things came to be on this planet.

I do believe that both creationism and evolution stop people from thinking.

Creationism is a mythical explanation, evolution is a pseudo-science.

both ideas are laughable.

I have studied evolution at graduate level and realised at once that its basic tenants are flawed.

Once a belief is accepted by a person then their whole world appears consistent with their belief, e.g., creationist see God's work everywhere, Evolutionists see evidence of evolution everywhere.

I have not posted to enter debate with desperate people who will try to convince me that evolution is fact(!) Or that God will send me to eternal torture if I don't accept Judeo-Christian myths.

Rather, I would like to hear from anyone who rejects both ideas and either have an alternative or like myself, don't have a clue.
Stop, just think for one moment that niether Creation nor Evolution is true.
Where does that leave your safe smug little world?

um, you've said a lot, but you haven't backed up any of it. how is evolution flawed?

In my opinion, both explanations are laughable also. What the actual process was behind how we came into being, I don't know, and to be honest, I don't really think about it too much anymore. Why? There is so much that we as a people try and explain and understand, despite having absolutely no idea if we are on the right track. Worse than that, we start beleiving our flawed explanations are facts, which closes our minds and severely handicaps any possibility of uncovering the truth from that moment on.

From what I can gather, THERE ARE NO ABSOLUTES, for absolutes only serve as barriers on the road to enlightenment.

As one who believes in G-d and in evolution I can understand if you do not agree about G-d, I cannot prove that to you nor do I feel compeled to do so. However, evolution can be demonstrated and observed both in the lab and in nature. so... which basic tenants do you feel are flawed?

Well firstly, I'd just like to say that the opening poster was asking for responses from people who believe in neither, thus there is no obligation for anyone on this thread to provide examples of which parts of either of these beliefs are flawed.

However, if you are looking for a flaw, lets go right to the beginning. How did something come from nothing?

speaker, you don't start a thread on ATS that's all about agreement, that's why we have BTS.

the OP needs elaboration, i don't see anything to back up the arguments

Originally posted by kokoro
As one who believes in G-d

??G-d??
Who is G-d?


Are we in Piltdown country?

Is G-d GOD? G=JHVH or YHWH

??


[edit on 24-3-2007 by tomquinn]

G-d is supposedly GOD, it is for the ppl that believe in a higher power, or that can't accept that there is nothing after death. ( no offense, it's just what I believe.)

Certainly I agree that both creationism and evolutionary theory are works in progress, incomplete and flawed as any human perception must be. The thing that I find is odd is the belief that any particular belief is flawed by the act of believing in it.

Originally posted by tomquinn

Originally posted by kokoro
As one who believes in G-d

??G-d??
Who is G-d?


Are we in Piltdown country?

Is G-d GOD? G=JHVH or YHWH

??


[edit on 24-3-2007 by tomquinn]

G-d is GOD. That is just the way I choose to write it.

I have studied evolution at graduate level and realised at once that its basic tenants are flawed.

In what context was your study? And in what way is the theory flawed?

And I do hope your lecturers also kept correcting you - it's "tenets" not "tenants".

Cheers.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
speaker, you don't start a thread on ATS that's all about agreement, that's why we have BTS.

the OP needs elaboration, i don't see anything to back up the arguments

No, you start a thread in this instance for the reason below:

Originally posted by adam_weishaupt
I have not posted to enter debate with desperate people who will try to convince me that evolution is fact(!) Or that God will send me to eternal torture if I don't accept Judeo-Christian myths.

Rather, I would like to hear from anyone who rejects both ideas and either have an alternative or like myself, don't have a clue.
Stop, just think for one moment that niether Creation nor Evolution is true.
Where does that leave your safe smug little world?

All the OP needs is someone to address the request put forward.

speaker, the person says that neither option is true without placing a third option up. then the OP calls those that believe in either theory smug...

here's where it leaves the world if evolution isn't true, without explaination

So you believe in evolution merely to provide an explanation? What's the point if the explanation is wrong?

Originally posted by speaker
So you believe in evolution merely to provide an explanation? What's the point if the explanation is wrong?

well, i don't believe in it MERELY to provide an explaination.

scratch that, i actually don't BELIEVE in evolution, i support evolutionary theory because it is the most logical and well thought out explaination that's supported by mountains of evidence.

if there was a better scientific explaination that is supported by the evidence, i'd support it

it seems to me that evolution is supported not by evidence, but by a lack of evidence.

Originally posted by speaker
it seems to me that evolution is supported not by evidence, but by a lack of evidence.

...

those elipses represent a string of baffled profanity that went off in my head when i saw that.

not just the sheer ignorance of the initial statement, but because you don't go beyond it.

that's how it seems to you, but why?
have you ever studied evolutionary biology?
ever read the works of darwin or any other evolutionary biologist?
ever study the fossil record?

OK, give me an example of this "so called evidence" of evolution.

Some good replies to my initial thread.

I did not want to start a debate on evolution, I assure people that I've taken the time to understand its' tenents. Yes I've read Darwin, Huxley, Dawkins, etc. I've also read the Bible. Miller, Popper and koestler. Shakespeare, Einstein, Marx, Freud, Aleister Crowley! Suggesting I'm wrong because I'm not clever enough is a poor tactic (ad-hominem) I have double honours in psychology/philosophy, an Msc in psychology, Dip in psychotherapy.

I have no third option, however, that doesn't mean I have to support creation or evolution. I don't have an issue with not knowing origins apart from now and again, when my heart skips a beat as I contemplate the world, universe, and life and consider the mystery of it all - temporary existential crisis.....

If you believe in God fine. If you accept evolution, fine. Is it not worth keeping a little part of your mind open to alternatives? The earth was once considered the unmovable centre of the universe - a system of measurements was created to show it thus.

If you believe in either creation / evolution I ask you to take time to examine your doubts, argue for the opposite belief - an interesting mind excercise.

I am truly interested in any alternatives.

I accept that an alternative is beyond me - I don't know where/how to begin, though, non-locality, the uncertainty principle, quantum dynamics, etc, have revealed a very strange phyisical world.

Originally posted by speaker
OK, give me an example of this "so called evidence" of evolution.

the fossil record
genetics
bacterial resistance to antibiotics