Meteorologists say sure humans cause climate change

Meteorologists say sure humans cause climate change

www.sciam.com

MADRID (Reuters) - Some of the world's leading meteorologists said on Wednesday they had no doubt that humans were responsible for global warming.

Rising temperatures, caused by a build up of carbon dioxide in the earth's atmosphere, are widely expected to bring worsening floods, droughts and hurricanes. Melting ice caps could inundate densely populated parts of the planet if warming continues unchecked.

Most scientists agree emissions from coal, oil and gas are causing climate change, while a few argue there is no link.

(visit the link for the full news article)

US developing system to track global warming gas Scientific American
Al Gore makes global warming plea BBC News

Without a new energy technology, I don't foresee the world offsetting the effects of climate change. Carbon trading is little more than a monetary exchange to enrichen a few at the expense of the many. For now, prepare to ride the storm out...

The World’s Hottest Super-Models Scienceline

[edit on 23-3-2007 by Regenmacher]

Thanks rainman.

The article has a good summary of the argument too...

Asked if natural warming cycles, as the earth has seen in the past, could be behind climate change, the director general of the Spanish National Meteorological Institute was adamant they were not.

"No, because the time scale is different. This phenomenon is happening much more quickly," Francisco Cadarso told Reuters on the sidelines of an international meteorological conference in Madrid.

He also dismissed as over simple other theories some scientists say undermine the idea humans are to blame, such as changes in solar activity, or the theory that carbon dioxide increases are lagging behind temperature rises.

Meteorologists... Are you saying the same people that can't predict with certainty what the weather is going to be tomorrow, or a week from now are claiming they know for certain man is the cause of Climate Change?....

Interesting...

Sorry, but those meteorologists only show ignorance, more so when they claim this recent warming has been more quickly when that is not true at all.. The recent warming has been going on for almost 400 years now, and the sudden increase in temps has been going on for over 60 years... in the past the Earth has gone through Climate Change much faster...

Most of the studies and debates on potential climate change, along with its ecological and economic impacts, have focused on the ongoing buildup of industrial greenhouse gases in the atmosphere and a gradual increase in global temperatures. This line of thinking, however, fails to consider another potentially disruptive climate scenario. It ignores recent and rapidly advancing evidence that Earth’s climate repeatedly has shifted abruptly and dramatically in the past, and is capable of doing so in the future.

Fossil evidence clearly demonstrates that Earthvs climate can shift gears within a decade, establishing new and different patterns that can persist for decades to centuries. In addition, these climate shifts do not necessarily have universal, global effects. They can generate a counterintuitive scenario: Even as the earth as a whole continues to warm gradually, large regions may experience a precipitous and disruptive shift into colder climates.

www.whoi.edu...

From that same WHOI site you can see this graph of temperatures on Earth for the past 15,000+ years.



[edit on 29-3-2007 by Muaddib]

Whats wrong with meeting each other half way and blaming the planet's cyclical changes as well as humans? Its both- We humans are contributing to the warming of the planet as well as stuff that periodically happens.

Why is this such a political thang???

Originally posted by dgtempe
Whats wrong with meeting each other half way and blaming the planet's cyclical changes as well as humans? Its both- We humans are contributing to the warming of the planet as well as stuff that periodically happens.

Why is this such a political thang???

For you it might be political, for me it is not.

You see, the only thing that is going to come out of "blaming mankind for climate change", is that we are going to be "taxed to our ears" with "carbon credits", or some other gimmick for a global tax.

There is not one iota of proof that CO2 has caused Global Warming in the past.

CO2 levels lags temperatures, and there have been times in Earth's past when CO2 levels were 4,000 to 4,400 ppm and temperatures were similar to the present, during the late Ordovician. CO2 levels on Earth have been up to 7,000+ ppm, now it is at 370 to 380 ppm.





The Earth has had more CO2 than it has now, from 10 to 16 times as much CO2, and there has never been "runaway global warming" nor has Earth become like Venus or Mars like some claim will happen.

There are many natural factors which do influence and change the climate, and mankind has only been around for 0.0000000001% of the time the Earth has existed, but Earth has had Climate Change throughout the 4.2 to 4.5 billion years it has been around, without any help from mankind.

[edit on 29-3-2007 by Muaddib]

Muaddib is showing his ignorance and hoping that charts will persuade others to beleive in him.

The CO2 lag is well understood............but of course Muaddib isn't going to tell you that is he!

Read about it from the actual full scientific studies and not these cherry picked skeptic soundbites. When you know why there is a lag it makes sooooooo much sense you'll wonder why you ever listen to ignorance as his ever again!

Really Malcr? Could you enlighten us please?... If anyone is showing ignorance is like always members like yourself that only resort to insults and don't provide data to refute any arguments...

If anything your response shows how much of a "religion" this topic has become to some people...

[edit on 29-3-2007 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib
Sorry, but those meteorologists only show ignorance, more so when they claim this recent warming has been more quickly when that is not true at all.. The recent warming has been going on for almost 400 years now, and the sudden increase in temps has been going on for over 60 years... in the past the Earth has gone through Climate Change much faster...

Sorry Mate;

But are you a Doctor?

A Professor?

Why should we buy your charts and your stories?

And why do you always appear in all of the threads that have to do with Global Warming?

Can't you just ADMIT already that it is also US - the Human Race - who is responsible for this warming? Yes, Yes I know you response - the Solar System is warming up and the Planet is warming up all by itself and we can not do anything but to keep on buring oil and coal and forrests and hope we will be here for the next 50 years. And what exactly does that matter, if the weather will get very extreme in the following years? Will the people who will have to pay the ultimate price really give a # what caused this hurricane which blew away their house, their family, their entire life? No they wont.

[edit on 29/3/07 by Souljah]

Originally posted by Muaddib

There are many natural factors which do influence and change the climate, and mankind has only been around for 0.0000000001% of the time the Earth has existed, but Earth has had Climate Change throughout the 4.2 to 4.5 billion years it has been around, without any help from mankind.

There are many natural factors which cause humans to die and humans have been dying for hundreds of thousands of years without any help from a gun ....

So do we conclude that guns don't kill It's the same logic.

Stop being such a dogmatist and learn a little scepticism And remember, some aspects of Anthropogenic Climate Change are irrefutable. Humans do cause climate change. Period. Whether humans are primarily responsible for the recent apparent reversal of general downward trend in global temperatures over the past few thousand years is another matter.

It's fine to be sceptical about the more extremists predictions being made by the ill-informed, but, unlike deniers, a sceptic accepts that whilst he is not yet convinced by the evidence, the theory may yet be proved correct. Of course, it may also be proved wrong A sceptic seeks more data. Only a fool believes he already knows all there is to know.

Of course, many believers in AGW are just as dogmatic as the deniers and certainly don't help matters with their extreme predictions and steadfast refusal to consider other possible, natural, contributors to climate change and even other aspects of human contribution.

We need more sceptics!

[edit on 29-3-2007 by Essan]

Last night I sat down with a glass of vodka and watched Al Gore's flick again.

With so many lies and manipulations of science going on in this debate, I don't think we'll ever know the truth. We'll kill ourselves before that happens. And then the survivors will go, "Look! Five billion fewer people and temperatures have stabilized!" while they ignore the radioactive snow all around them.

I was flipping through channels the other day and landed on the evangelical channel. There was some Ted Kennedy lookin' guy speaking. His argument against Climate Change was, "God would not allow such a thing to happen."

I don't think it matters anymore. You've got one fat oaf making a movie glorifying himself to further an agenda, and another fat oaf ignoring every piece of data on the subject, regardless of credibility. We're screwed.

But how can anyone take anything seriously coming from a bunch of guys who can't predict the weather more than 12 hours out right?

In the Seattle area, the 7 day predictions are baboon hilariously funny in their inaccuracy.

So guys that are batting somewhere in the vicinity of .12 -> .26 are going to 'explain' to the public how this global warming thing...

Well... the guys that dance around in front of a green screen aren't usually the cream of the crop.

My dad was a meteorologist for over 20 years working for a private firm, and he could be near spot on up to 72hours out. He had to be, because his clients depended on accuracy. But with all his experience in such a demanding environment, at this time he has not concluded that humans are a significant cause of climate change.

Just yesterday I watched a national geographic documentary "The big freeze" I think it was called, It looked at the history of the earths climate over thousands of years through ice core samples from all over the world.
Basicly what they were saying is what is unusual in the history was the current stabillity we've enjoyed in the last couple of hundred years as compared to the overall patterns of the last few hundred thousand years that shows very turbulent and drastic changes that were taking place, even as quickly as within one decade without the help of man.
I wonder if we were currently entering the next ice age would man be trying to heat up the planet?

I'm am concerned about the pollitical aspects of this whole subject more than having to move to antartica to survive.
Globalist love global warming

We should be more concerned about the undeniable poisoning of the planet, with known carcingens being released, water supplies being poisoned, untested pesticides, deforestation etc..

Also I'd like too add that alternative energy sources are available, the earth is made of two thirds water, all that hydrogen just waiting for us.
Lets stop feeding the huge industry that global warming has become and take those billions and give it too the scientists who are working on these clean and near free energy sources. The ones who can make a difference for whatever side of the argument your on.

Originally posted by Souljah

Sorry Mate;

But are you a Doctor?

Nope, don't have a PHd....

Originally posted by Souljah
A Professor?

I have a Bachelors of Science in Engineering but I am not a professor....

Originally posted by Souljah
Why should we buy your charts and your stories?

They are not "my stories", nor "my gaphs".... Those graphs and information are readily available to anyone who actually does any research on Climate Change.... Check around and you will find none of those graphs or information are made up.

Originally posted by Souljah
And why do you always appear in all of the threads that have to do with Global Warming?

I don't "appear in all Global Warming threads", but I have been studying this subject long enough to know a thing or two and these are forums "to discuss subjects" so anyone with any knowledge should be discussing the subject if they have proof in favour or against this topic...

BTW, why do you try to derail every and all topics and try to blame the United States for every wrong under the Sun?.... You have even tried to blame the United States for Global Warming in another thread with all your exagerations...

Originally posted by Souljah
Can't you just ADMIT already that it is also US - the Human Race - who is responsible for this warming?

Ooooh...so now you go for "it's the human race"... on another thread on this topic you were already trying to derail it and blaming the U.S. for Global Warming...

Anyways, there is not one iota of proof that CO2 brings Climate Changes to the planet. CO2 has always lagged temperatures, even during this current warming, and the current CO2 levels are still low compared to what they have been in the past.

The Earth has lowered and raised CO2 levels all by itself and the small amount that mankind has been adding is nothing.

Why is it that you and others like yourself can't understand that water vapor is a worse greenhouse gas than CO2, it retains twice the amount of heat, and it exists in higher concentrations in the atmosphere than CO2 or any other trace gases? Yet noone wants to blame the "evil greenhouse gas water vapor".... mostly because 99.99% of water vapor levels occur naturally.

Current CO2 levels are 0.037% to 0.038% of all gases that exist in Earth's atmopehere, and anthropogenic CO2 amounts to 0.28% (out of 100% of all trace gases) of all occuring greenhouse gases, all greenhouse gases amount to 1% of all the Earth's gases, and there are some that want to blame mankind for Global Warming/Climate Change.... go figure....

During warming events the levels of water vapor always increase all by themselves, as well as CO2 and other trace gases, and the Earth is still going through warming related to the Holocene sea level rise as the Earth came out of the last Ice Age.

The Earth is still experiencing dramatic warming from warm ocean flows of up to 10 C which began to warm almost 12,000 years ago, and has been warming since then, the warming would have stayed relatively stable if no other natural factor would have come into play, but since the Sun's output has incrased in the last 60 years more than during the past 8,000+ years, the Earth's magnetic field has weakened 10% and in some places up to 30% since 1845 and this weakening hasn't happened like this for over 770,000 years. There is also the fact that yes, the entire solar system is experiencing warming and Climate Changes, this is not only happening to Earth, yet still some people want to "blame mankind"...

Originally posted by Souljah
And what exactly does that matter, if the weather will get very extreme in the following years? Will the people who will have to pay the ultimate price really give a # what caused this hurricane which blew away their house, their family, their entire life? No they wont.

I was already talking about Climate Change, and extreme weather events in these forums long before you "suddenly became interested in them because you have one more topic to try to blame the United States for"...

Anyways, the climate on Earth changes, that has always happened, there have been worse upheavals in the past, and mankind as a whole survived.

Yes, there will be other tsunamies and hurricanes, but those are a fact of life, trying to blame mankind for them is not going to stop them in the least.

[edit on 29-3-2007 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib
Anyways, the climate on Earth changes, that has always happened, there have been worse upheavals in the past, and mankind as a whole survived.

Yes, there will be other tsunamies and hurricanes, but those are a fact of life, trying to blame mankind for them is not going to stop them in the least.

I have my deepest Respect for your persistance in your posts.

You truly are very good with words and explanations and most of the time you have prove anything you wish - but that still does not change the current situation we are all in. You say, there will always be natural disasters - but you did notice that the weather has been kind of wacko lately? Tell me you noticed that the temperatures have been warmer and that there is snow in the middle of spring and other weather anomalies like that? I mean you do not have to be a genius or a professor to know that.

So here is my question?

WHAT DO WE DO?

I mean we ALL are in this situation who live on this planet and we all shall pay the price for our past actions (if you belive in man caused global warming) or for the planetary and solar changes. So, what do we do? Can we do anything? Or is it out of our reach already and we can just sit and watch how the world goes crazy, how the water levels will rise, how the ice will melt, how the ice age shall arrive, how the people will fight for water, how the floods will wipe out entire cities? Tell me please - I am really interested to know what you have to offer to Mankind, in order to save ourselves from this global disaster, which will sooner or later occur - which you can not deny.

Here's what irks me about this debate.

I don't believe for a moment that humans can burn over 84 million barrels of oil products per day while having zero effect. The nature and magnitude of those effects are up for debate and research of course, but there has to be some! Thermodynamics says so.

Now, there is plenty of evidence that the climate is changing (and I prefer the term climate change rather than 'global warming' since Europe may find itself in a new ice age) and has always been in a state of change.

The problem I have with the "global warming deniers" (not necessarily including Muaddib here, because I'm not sure what his motives are) is that they seem to be saying humans have no effect whatsoever on the environment and that we can keep burning fossil fuels to our heart's content, polluting our rivers, lakes and oceans and that anybody who says otherwise is a moron. They refuse to change anything about how our economic paradigm works or how we live our lives. It looks to me like some kind of "Hummer Owners of the World Unite!" battle cry.

Originally posted by Muaddib
You see, the only thing that is going to come out of "blaming mankind for climate change", is that we are going to be "taxed to our ears" with "carbon credits", or some other gimmick for a global tax.

I agree that this is where we are heading, but I have to ask something. Regardless of the climate change issue, if such measures result in greater efficiency, better technology, less pollution and cleaner air and water, would that really be so bad?

If "global warming" scare mongering is what it takes for humans to clean up their act, maybe we should fully support it?


.

The objections to anthropogenic global warming are almost exclusively ideological.

Find me one global warming skeptic that isn't also a hardcore rightwinger.

If you just click your heels three times and really believe it's not happening, the seas won't rise.

Yeah

Originally posted by Souljah

WHAT DO WE DO?

Prepare for any possible changes. Everyone should be responsible for their own preparations. If you live in coastal areas, have contigency plans in case there is another Katrina. Have plans to move inland with family or friends, have different alternate routes to get there. Be sure you have a kit in your car, with some clothes for the season, medicine you and your family needs, aspirins, first aid kid, some energy bars and some potable water, just enough to go from one place to another in a hurry if you need to, and have them in a backpack, in case you and your family need to walk long distances.

If you are in a relatively safe area, then just have more food, water and medicine stored than you would normally have. If you live in a rural area, learn how to hunt, and familiarize yourself and your family with where you live.

Always plan ahead, if you are going to move, if possible move inland and be smarter of where you are going to move.

BTW, right now there is about 1.5 feet of snow on top of my truck, and for about a week our temps were around 60 F, and for the past two days it has gone to 22-24 F during the mornings and about 18 or so at night. But you know what? I have asked some locals who are friends of mine about this and although rare, it has happened before. The weather does change, and around here there have been years when it has snowed even in June.

If you want to be less dependable on the powergrid, there are several ways you can do it. For example, 1/3 of my home is underground, i really never have to put my heater on, nomatter how cold it is outside. During winter I even open my windows for about two hours everyday to get fresh air in, and the temp inside the house does not decrease dramatically. My electric bill during both winter and summer is around $25 -$35 a month.

I have double panel windows made of safety glass which cover around 50% of my bedroom and living room, so I don't need to turn on any lights during the day. Even now that is cloudy outside, most of my home is illuminated by natural light. The outside of my home is made of brick, and i live in the outskirts of a medium-small size city, on top of a hill and about 10 miles away from the mountains, and btw, i am neither a millionaire nor do i have hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Anyone can make preparations, and you don't have to be rich to be prepared.

Originally posted by Souljah
I mean we ALL are in this situation who live on this planet and we all shall pay the price for our past actions (if you belive in man caused global warming) or for the planetary and solar changes. So, what do we do? Can we do anything?

Prepare is the only thing anyone can do. You can't order or control 6 billion people, and if you wait for any government to make preparations for you, the same thing that happened during Katrina will happen again, nomatter how prepared any state or government is. You can't fight nature.

Originally posted by Souljah
Or is it out of our reach already and we can just sit and watch how the world goes crazy, how the water levels will rise, how the ice will melt, how the ice age shall arrive, how the people will fight for water, how the floods will wipe out entire cities? Tell me please - I am really interested to know what you have to offer to Mankind, in order to save ourselves from this global disaster, which will sooner or later occur - which you can not deny.

What makes you think there is anything man can do to mitigate, control or stop Climate Change?

Originally posted by xmotex
Find me one global warming skeptic that isn't also a hardcore rightwinger.

Hi.